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Islamic Terrorists in Particular (Read 13211 times)
Sir Spot of Borg
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Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Apr 27th, 2012 at 8:28am
 
This is the post I said I would start a new thread with in another thread.

Yadda wrote on Apr 26th, 2012 at 2:45pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 26th, 2012 at 9:25am:

The question, when using a religious ideology as the "reason" to commit an atrocity is is it really the motive or just an excuse? If it is really the motive, if the individual really believes the voices or the book or what ever told them to then they are prolly legally insane... otherwise no imo






If we want to understand moslem terrorism, we must seek to understand what justifies moslem terrorism [in the moslem mind].



The fact is that moslems define all aparent circumstances [which we also see in front of our eyes] differently to us [non-moslems], so as to justify their violence against non-moslems.

Q.
Are we [non-moslems] attacking moslems and ISLAM ?

OR, are we non-moslems defending ourselves [and our communities] from ISLAMIC violence [a violence which is 'religiously' justified by moslems and ISLAM] ?





If you listen to moslems talking among themselves, moslems claim and express the belief [in their minds] that the West is oppressing moslems who live in the West, because, we are forcing moslems to obey Western secular law.

Therefore;
Can moslems rightfully claim that we non-moslems are oppressing those moslems who live among us ?

Because that is the claim which moslems make [among themselves], against us !

We non-moslems are the 'oppressors'.

And moslem violence against we non-moslems is justified [in the eyes of moslems] !

And that, is the twisted 'logic' which moslems use, to see themselves as the 'victims', who are justified in fighting and using extreme violence against their 'oppressors' [we non-moslems].



Moslems want Sharia law.

And where there is no Sharia law in a society, THAT, moslems view that circumstance as the oppression of moslems !






We non-moslems are 'criminals', in the eyes of moslems.

That is how ISLAM categorises non-moslems.





+++


The self evident 'religious' paradigm which ISLAM intends to eventually 'communicate' to the whole world, is that 'unbelief' [in Allah] is a crime [against Allah,  ...and, against humanity!].
And good moslems want you 'unbelievers' to understand, that that crime of 'unbelief', >> must << attract 'justified' moslem violence.

You can see that, can't you!?

/sarc off

Koran 2.98
Koran 47:8-11
Koran 4.74-76

The content of those three Koran verse groups, together, form a 'virtuous circle'.
Each verse group firstly confirms and then reinforces the ISLAMIC 'religious' paradigm, that,
1/    unbelief [in man] is a serious 'religious' crime, and that,
2/    good moslems are 'rightly guided' 'crime fighters', and that,
3/    the 'criminals' deserve everything they get [...because Allah states that unbelievers are in league with SATAN]!

Those arguments [above] are 'logically' demonstrated...

1/    "...Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith." [i.e. 'Unbelief' [in man] is a crime.].
Koran 2.98
[ - - The enemy of moslems is identified. All of 'unbelieving' mankind, are the declared enemy of moslems.]

2/    "...those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47:8-11
[ - - Here, it is clearly stated to every good moslem, that moslem enmity, violence, and warfare, against 'those who reject Faith', is morally justified, and 'lawful'. /sarc off]

3/    "...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:...."
Koran 4.74-76
[ - - Those who reject 'Faith' are ipso facto, 'rightly' deemed as being innately evil by ISLAM, and by Allah. Therefore those who reject 'Faith', are the rightful targets of moslem enmity, violence, and warfare.
...'those who reject Faith' are also described [Koran 4.74-76], as 'oppressors' and as, 'the friends of Satan'.]

Once again...
1/    'Unbelief' [in man] is a crime.
2/    The crime of 'unbelief' >> must << be punished.
3/    Punishment of 'unbelief' is morally justified, because, 'unbelief' is a crime.





+++




ISLAM, imo, creates a mental pathology, in those persons who choose to embrace it.


i.e.
ISLAM creates a mental instability [a state of insanity] in those people who choose to embrace it.

ISLAM creates a mental instability [a state of insanity] in those people who choose to embrace its doctrines of hatred.

A hatred directed towards ALL people, and ALL ideas, and ALL concepts, which are deemed to be non-ISLAMIC.



And Western countries, and overwhelmingly the intellectuals in the West, and politicians in the Western countries, see no problem in allowing those persons who embrace the 'ISLAMIC worldview' [who embrace a culture of violence, and ISLAMIC supremacism], moslems, to live and walk among us.

Our intellectuals and politicians, imo, are mad, and morally blind.





In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, our Western intellectuals and Western politicians still claim that they are certain that ISLAM is a benign and peaceful and socially healthy philosophy.

IMO, the people who are making such claims are either mad, or morally blind [i.e. morally bankrupt].





Look I am not an expert on Islam so maybe others will join in here. I read the koran a long time ago but my memory isnt the best.

I think the problem here is that you are generalising and using too wide a brush yadda. Not all muslims are the same. In fact most muslims think of the "jihad" as figurative and an introspective thing. Of course there are radicals who take it literally just like another religion we know of.

All sharias may be muslim but not all muslims are sharia.

Islam does not cause mental illness. Radical religion is a symptom of mental illness though.

"In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, our Western intellectuals and Western politicians still claim that they are certain that ISLAM is a benign and peaceful and socially healthy philosophy."

The ppl making these claims have to say that because their religion is also very violent and they claim it is taken figuratively and its actually a peaceful religion. If you want your religion to be accepted you have to accept others religions. (thats their thinking imo).

SOB
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Soren
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #1 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 12:47pm
 
The essential difference between Islam and Christianity today is the separation of the personal and the political.

In the West, personal liberty trumps religious affiliation, although political correctness  is pushing us towards the kind of confluence we see in Islam where the political is about religion and it trumps the personal every time.

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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #2 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 12:59pm
 
Soren wrote on Apr 27th, 2012 at 12:47pm:
The essential difference between Islam and Christianity today is the separation of the personal and the political.

In the West, personal liberty trumps religious affiliation, although political correctness  is pushing us towards the kind of confluence we see in Islam where the politics is about religion and it trumps the personal every time.




Yes. For the most part.
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #3 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 10:19pm
 
...
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falah
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #4 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 11:13pm
 
All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t


...
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database

According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%).  These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion.  These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company.

Yet notice the disparity in media coverage between the two.  It would indeed be very interesting to construct a corresponding pie chart that depicted the level of media coverage of each group.  The reason that Muslim apologists and their “leftist dhimmi allies” cannot recall another non-Islamic act of terrorism other than Waco is due to the fact that the media gives menial (if any) coverage to such events.  If a terrorist attack does not fit the “Islam is the perennial and existential threat of our times” narrative, it is simply not paid much attention to, which in a circuitous manner reinforces and “proves” the preconceived narrative.  It is to such an extent that the average American cannot remember any Jewish or Latino terrorist; why should he when he has never even heard of the Jewish Defense League or the Ejercito Popular Boricua Macheteros?  Surely what he does not know does not exist!

The Islamophobes claim that Islam is intrinsically a terrorist religion.  The proof?  Well, just about every terrorist attack is Islamic, they retort.  Unfortunately for them, that’s not quite true.  More like six percent.  Using their defunct logic, these right wingers ought now to conclude that nearly all acts of terrorism are committed by Latinos (or Jews).  Let them dare say it…they couldn’t; it would be political and social suicide to say such a thing. Most Americans would shut down such talk as bigoted; yet, similar statements continue to be said of Islam, without any repercussions.

The Islamophobes live in a fantasy world where everyone is supposedly too “politically correct” to criticize Islam and Muslims.  Yet, the reality is the exact opposite: you can get away with saying anything against the crescent.  Can you imagine the reaction if I said that Latinos should be profiled because after all they are the ones who commit the most terrorism in the country?  (For the record: I don’t believe in such profiling, because I am–unlike the right wing nutters–a believer in American ideals.)

The moral of the story is that Americans ought to calm down when it comes to Islamic terrorism.  Right wingers always live in mortal fear–or rather, they try to make you feel that way.  In fact, Pamela Geller (the queen of internet Islamophobia) literally said her mission was to “scare the bejeezus outta ya.” Don’t be fooled, and don’t be a wuss.  You don’t live in constant fear of radicalized Latinos (unless you’re Lou Dobbs), even though they commit seven times more acts of terrorism than Muslims in America.  Why then are you wetting yourself over Islamic radicals?  In the words of Cenk Uygur: you’re at a ten when you need to be at a four.  Nobody is saying that Islamic terrorism is not a matter of concern, but it’s grossly exaggerated.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/
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falah
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #5 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 11:14pm
 
Study: Threat of Muslim-American terrorism in U.S. exaggerated


http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/01/06/muslim.radicalization.study/
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #6 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 8:57am
 
I am not convinced that religion is the reason for terrorism by muslim terrorists. Religion provides them a motivation in a reward of virgins or whatever but i dont think its the reason for most "terrorism". Certianly not in thier own countries. They arent killing "infidels" there are they.

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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #7 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:16am
 
SOB,

Terrorism is just the propaganda term coined by the Western powers to de-legitimise the struggle of the Muslim peoples they are occupying, invading and slaughtering.

Yes Islamic militant groups exist, and their methods are sometimes quite severe, but merely in response to what they have suffered. They did not initiate such rules of engagement, they merely matched those of the Western armies that have been attacking them for an extended period stretching back over several decades to a few centuries.

The Western propaganda machine would like us all to become docile to their policies by using fear to scare us into accepting their actions. That is why we are told Muslims are terrorists, lest we ask our governments why they are causing all this grief throughout the world, that eventually comes back to haunt us.
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #8 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:18am
 
falah wrote on Apr 27th, 2012 at 11:13pm:
All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t


http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/piechart2-1024x1024.jpg
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database

According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%).  These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion.  These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company.

Yet notice the disparity in media coverage between the two.  It would indeed be very interesting to construct a corresponding pie chart that depicted the level of media coverage of each group.  The reason that Muslim apologists and their “leftist dhimmi allies” cannot recall another non-Islamic act of terrorism other than Waco is due to the fact that the media gives menial (if any) coverage to such events.  If a terrorist attack does not fit the “Islam is the perennial and existential threat of our times” narrative, it is simply not paid much attention to, which in a circuitous manner reinforces and “proves” the preconceived narrative.  It is to such an extent that the average American cannot remember any Jewish or Latino terrorist; why should he when he has never even heard of the Jewish Defense League or the Ejercito Popular Boricua Macheteros?  Surely what he does not know does not exist!

The Islamophobes claim that Islam is intrinsically a terrorist religion.  The proof?  Well, just about every terrorist attack is Islamic, they retort.  Unfortunately for them, that’s not quite true.  More like six percent.  Using their defunct logic, these right wingers ought now to conclude that nearly all acts of terrorism are committed by Latinos (or Jews).  Let them dare say it…they couldn’t; it would be political and social suicide to say such a thing. Most Americans would shut down such talk as bigoted; yet, similar statements continue to be said of Islam, without any repercussions.

The Islamophobes live in a fantasy world where everyone is supposedly too “politically correct” to criticize Islam and Muslims.  Yet, the reality is the exact opposite: you can get away with saying anything against the crescent.  Can you imagine the reaction if I said that Latinos should be profiled because after all they are the ones who commit the most terrorism in the country?  (For the record: I don’t believe in such profiling, because I am–unlike the right wing nutters–a believer in American ideals.)

The moral of the story is that Americans ought to calm down when it comes to Islamic terrorism.  Right wingers always live in mortal fear–or rather, they try to make you feel that way.  In fact, Pamela Geller (the queen of internet Islamophobia) literally said her mission was to “scare the bejeezus outta ya.” Don’t be fooled, and don’t be a wuss.  You don’t live in constant fear of radicalized Latinos (unless you’re Lou Dobbs), even though they commit seven times more acts of terrorism than Muslims in America.  Why then are you wetting yourself over Islamic radicals?  In the words of Cenk Uygur: you’re at a ten when you need to be at a four.  Nobody is saying that Islamic terrorism is not a matter of concern, but it’s grossly exaggerated.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/


I wonder how it would look if they ranked them by death toll?
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #9 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:19am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:16am:
SOB,

Terrorism is just the propaganda term coined by the Western powers to de-legitimise the struggle of the Muslim peoples they are occupying, invading and slaughtering.



So 9/11 was not terrorism because it was 'legitimate'?
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #10 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:28am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:16am:
SOB,

Terrorism is just the propaganda term coined by the Western powers to de-legitimise the struggle of the Muslim peoples they are occupying, invading and slaughtering.

Yes Islamic militant groups exist, and their methods are sometimes quite severe, but merely in response to what they have suffered. They did not initiate such rules of engagement, they merely matched those of the Western armies that have been attacking them for an extended period stretching back over several decades to a few centuries.

The Western propaganda machine would like us all to become docile to their policies by using fear to scare us into accepting their actions. That is why we are told Muslims are terrorists, lest we ask our governments why they are causing all this grief throughout the world, that eventually comes back to haunt us.


Yeah I know. However ppl here seem to take issue when you use the wrong word. The proper propaganda term is "terror" whereas terrorism has a different (political) meaning which does fit better.

It suits the ameircans to get everyone int he world to associate the word "terror" with "muslims". It creates fear (especially int eh gullible masses) and allows them to get away with invasions and stuff.

SOB
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #11 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:37am
 
Quote:
It suits the ameircans to get everyone int he world to associate the word "terror" with "muslims".


Osama did that, not the Americans. There had been plenty of attacks by Muslim extremists prior to 9/11, but Osama was the one who caught the world's attention - not Bush.
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #12 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 10:25am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:37am:
Quote:
It suits the ameircans to get everyone int he world to associate the word "terror" with "muslims".


Osama did that, not the Americans. There had been plenty of attacks by Muslim extremists prior to 9/11, but Osama was the one who caught the world's attention - not Bush.


lol. As far as I know usama didnt ever use the word "terror".

SOB
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #13 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 10:58am
 
What else did you expect people to call it? A slight over-reaction?
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abu_rashid
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Re: Islamic Terrorists in Particular
Reply #14 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 11:10am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:19am:
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:16am:
SOB,

Terrorism is just the propaganda term coined by the Western powers to de-legitimise the struggle of the Muslim peoples they are occupying, invading and slaughtering.



So 9/11 was not terrorism because it was 'legitimate'?


I dunno... was nuking the civilian populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a 'legitimate' reaction to Pearl Harbour?

Let us weigh these kinds of actions up on an actual scale, rather than just by using emotive terms that have very little concrete meaning.
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