Australian Politics Forum - What Makes Nick Tick

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What Makes Nick Tick
Apr 26^th, 2012 at 5:24am

What ever makes a science denialist tick?

I Can Change Your Mind about Climate, Thursday, April 26

ABC1, 8.30pm

There's little more cringe-making than watching two people with fixed positions try to convince each other they're right. And at first it looks as if that's all we're going to get when environmentalist Anna Rose and climate sceptic Nick Minchin are set head-to-head. Quickly, though, this fascinating documentary broadens beyond a he-says-she-says faceoff into not just an examination of climate science but an examination of whether these arguments are worth having at all. Full of surprises.

Perhaps Nick realises his mistake in denying the science.

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: What Makes Nick Tick Reply #1 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 5:47am morning woody I find it hard to believe they are even talking about this topic still. havent you taken care of GW????
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Re: What Makes Nick Tick
Reply #2 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:29am

cods wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 5:47am:

morning woody

I find it hard to believe they are even talking about this topic still.

havent you taken care of GW???? Cheesy

The carbon tax is not, and have never been claimed to be, the silver bullet.

It is, for the fifty zillionth time, the beginning step.

Hopefully it may register for you this time.

It's about shifting our economy, and sifting all other economies, onto sustainable footing.

Without doing this, everything is lost. Everything including your family.

So continue being selfish for your self while knowing you are dragging the rest of your family to an early grave.

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nairbe

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Re: What Makes Nick Tick
Reply #3 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:59am

____ wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:29am:

cods wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 5:47am:

morning woody

I find it hard to believe they are even talking about this topic still.

havent you taken care of GW???? Cheesy

The carbon tax is not, and have never been claimed to be, the silver bullet.

It is, for the fifty zillionth time, the beginning step.

Hopefully it may register for you this time.

It's about shifting our economy, and sifting all other economies, onto sustainable footing.

Without doing this, everything is lost. Everything including your family.

So continue being selfish for your self while knowing you are dragging the rest of your family to an early grave.

Quite so, it really is hard to believe that caring for the planet we live on, the only planet that can sustain a life form of our type in our solar system, the only planet that we have the ability to reach having never been to another planet is so incredibly difficult. You would think that keeping our life support system in perfect condition would be objective no 1 for us all, but no we would rather have it running on reserve all the time and when it has an issue we use cheap secondhand parts to fix it. It's the low socio attitude, we will eat our resources today and complain when there is nothing left next week, no work, no ecology, no atmosphere, no community but never mind i have it all with no sacrifice the grand kids can go jump.

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"Faced with what is right, to leave it undone shows a lack of courage."
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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: What Makes Nick Tick Reply #4 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 7:23am Will this change your mind about the mann-made catastrophic climate change. The history of the hockey stick and FOI issues. The pseudo climate science fraud.
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cods

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Re: What Makes Nick Tick
Reply #5 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 7:42am

nairbe wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:59am:

____ wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:29am:

[quote author=333F3423500 link=1335381863/1#1 date=1335383236]morning woody

I find it hard to believe they are even talking about this topic still.

havent you taken care of GW???? Cheesy

The carbon tax is not, and have never been claimed to be, the silver bullet.

It is, for the fifty zillionth time, the beginning step.

Hopefully it may register for you this time.

It's about shifting our economy, and sifting all other economies, onto sustainable footing.

Without doing this, everything is lost. Everything including your family.

So continue being selfish for your self while knowing you are dragging the rest of your family to an early grave.

Quite so, it really is hard to believe that caring for the planet we live on, the only planet that can sustain a life form of our type in our solar system, the only planet that we have the ability to reach having never been to another planet is so incredibly difficult. You would think that keeping our life support system in perfect condition would be objective no 1 for us all, but no we would rather have it running on reserve all the time and when it has an issue we use cheap secondhand parts to fix it. It's the low socio attitude, we will eat our resources today and complain when there is nothing left next week, no work, no ecology, no atmosphere, no community but never mind i have it all with no sacrifice the grand kids can go jum

oh poohoo what garbage.. so throwing money at it will change it all.. HOHUM..

I have yet to see where throwing money at something saved or stopped it..

didnt stop the starving in Ethiopia did it???

no matter how much they threw...

no offence here but you are so patronising I find it hard to come to grips with you CARBON TAX FANATICS..

the world is changing its called a natural phenomenon... we dont use the horse and cart anymore it was superseded..

and one day soon so will the car and aeroplane be superseded, not in my time or yours.. but it will happen..

mankind is very inventive you know..in fact its only happy if it is changing things day in day out..

industry is being taken over by technology, most of which goes over my head I will grant you

but I do know my car only goes in for a service every once in a while.. where as once upon time it was every few months..why because its improved its cleaner its a fact..I make sure I have all sorts of stars on my appliances or white goods..they are improving on them.. I do all the recycling..I waste very little I wear clothes I bought 20 years ago..dont you tell me I dont care....just because I dont think ..

""oh well lets sit back and throw money at it.. at us are'nt we the clever people?".....what more can we do..we care.. you dont!

I can think of saving a few kids lives RIGHT NOW.. not in 50 years might be a goer...

the first step was taken a few years ago... like I said industry was changing..

just because you believe a picture of Cate standing in front of a "power station" that went out of service 30 years ago..

doesnt mean you have saved the world.

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cods

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Re: What Makes Nick Tick
Reply #6 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 7:48am

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 7:23am:

Will this change your mind about the mann-made catastrophic climate change. The history of the hockey stick and FOI issues. The pseudo climate science fraud.

DONT BE SILLY PROG.. THEY CALL US BLINKERED i KNOW WHO i THINK IS BLINKERED..sorry about caps..

I read where Britain is in recession again so I doubt very much they will be following in our footsteps any time soon.

the interesting thing I find with science is they so often come back after 20 years and tell us ooops that didnt make one iota of difference..

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buzzanddidj

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Re: What Makes Nick Tick
Reply #7 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 10:19am

My FAVOURITE
"Minchinisms"

...

Quote:

NICK MINCHIN, SENATOR, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE:

"For 10 years the left internationally have been very successful in exploiting peoples' innate fears about global warming and climate change to achieve their political ends"

"For the

extreme left

it provides the opportunity to do what they've always wanted to do, to sort of de-industrialise the western world. You know the collapse of communism was a disaster for the left, and the, and really they embraced environmentalism as their new religion"

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2009/s2737676.htm

I'm assuming Malcolm Turnbull and World Vision CEO,the Reverend Tim Costello,
are card holder's in Nick's

"

extreme left

"

?

Also of relevance ...

Minchin's climate conspiracy

November 12, 2009

AND they say that conspiracy theories are the domain of the left ?.

Not so, if you listened to this week's Four Corners program in which the Opposition leader in the Senate, Nick Minchin, outlined his explanation of why efforts to tackle climate change had gained such momentum.

''For the extreme left, it provides the opportunity to do what they have always wanted to do, which is to sort of de-industrialise the Western world.

The collapse of communism was a disaster for the left and, really, they embraced environment as their new religion.''

Which would be funny if he didn't mean it and didn't hold such a senior leadership position in our parliament.

To a large extent, this week's Four Corners program simply laid out in detail what we already knew: that the Liberal and National parties are home to a significant number of climate-change deniers - those who would deny that human activity is a significant contributor to climatic changes
.

Whether they are in the majority remains an open question, despite Minchin's bold claim that they are

The climate scepticism of the senior former Howard government minister is well known, but Minchin's comments aired this week are so inflammatory as to require a response.

There can be no more denying his denial.
Clearly his belief is deeply held.
Clearly he is at odds with his party's leadership on the matter.

It is time for him to examine seriously whether it is appropriate for him to hold the office of party leader in the Senate when he has no intention of falling into line with his party's leadership on this issue.

Having the nation's Opposition party in the Senate led by two trenchant climate-change deniers - Senator Barnaby Joyce for the Nationals and Minchin for the Liberals - is untenable.

Minchin should demonstrate the same level of honesty as Malcolm Turnbull, who has staked his leadership over the issue: back me or sack me.

Australia has more to lose than most from a changing climate. Reliant on agriculture, we already are suffering from limited water resources. And yet our cities cling to shorelines that will disappear as seawaters rise.

We should be at the forefront of efforts to tackle climate change, which the vast majority of the credible scientific world tells us is happening - and is the result of human activity.

Business leaders have also accepted the challenge and are demanding solutions and certainty to thrive.

The time for conspiracy theories, and their exponents, is over. The time for action is upon us.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/editorial/minchins-climate-conspiracy-20091111-...

The junk science behind Minchin's climate change denial

14 March 2011

ABC News reported on Friday that Senator Nick Minchin rejects a recent Australian government report about climate change, because Minchin claims the globe is more likely to be cooling than warming.

Ross Garnaut, according to Minchin, "knows nothing about the climate", because Garnaut is an economist, rather than a climate scientist. Minchin went on to cite the work of a climate scientist at the University of Alabama who says that models have generally overstated the sensitivity of climate to greenhouse gas emissions, and recent warming has likely been due to a "natural cycle".

This unnamed scientist is almost certainly Dr. Roy Spencer, a meteorologist at the University of Alabama-Huntsville, in the United States.

In climate science, there is a clear consensus.
Two recent peer-reviewed studies have shown that 97-98% of working climate scientists think humans are significantly affecting the Earth’s climate.

So why does Senator Minchin glom onto the work of a single scientist, whose views are representative of such a tiny minority?

It turns out that Roy Spencer’s views are on the fringes for good reasons.

Spencer published a 2008 paper in which he used a simple model of the Earth’s climate to show that standard methods for estimating climate sensitivity were greatly overstating warming effects.

It turns out that other climate scientists (including one that initially gave Spencer’s paper a favourable review) have now published a paper showing Spencer was only able to obtain this result by assuming unrealistic values for various model parameters.
If realistic values are used, the effect Spencer described is negligible.

Spencer has done further work in which he claims to show with his simple climate model that, not only is climate sensitivity low, but most of the global warming in the 20th century can be explained by a natural cycle he called the "Pacific Decadal Oscillation"

Dr. Spencer tried to get this work published, but
it didn’t pass peer review.

Politicians like Senator Minchin usually want to be seen as tough-minded iconoclasts who boldly go where the evidence leads them. In this case, however, we can clearly see that there is no compelling reason to think Roy Spencer’s work trumps that of the rest of the climate science community.
In fact, much of his work is of demonstrably poor quality.

The sordid truth of the matter seems, instead, to be that Senator Minchin simply believed whichever expert would tell him what he wanted to hear.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/45086.html

"What Makes Nick Tick ?"

I'm damned if I know what makes ANY climate change denier "tick"
ESPECIALLY those with all the DATA and FACTS at their fingertips

But MORE importantly ...

WHAT IS THEIR AGENDA ?

i

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Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: What Makes Nick Tick Reply #8 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 5:20pm Havent gone through this document properly yet, but may come in handy for tonights pseudo science show. A-Z Climate Reality Check http://cfact.org/pdf/ClimateDepot_A-Z_ClimateRealityCheck.pdf
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Uncle Meat

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Re: What Makes Nick Tick
Reply #9 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 5:32pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 10:19am:

I'm damned if I know what makes ANY climate change denier "tick"

I've never met a "climate change denier".

I think you might be confusing 'AGW' with 'climate change', and 'sceptic' with 'denier'.

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 10:19am:

WHAT IS THEIR AGENDA ?

An AGW sceptic's "agenda" is finding out the truth.

I do realise, however, that the AGW disciples are not too fond of that prospect.

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longweekend58

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Re: What Makes Nick Tick
Reply #10 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:08pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 5:32pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 10:19am:

I'm damned if I know what makes ANY climate change denier "tick"

I've never met a "climate change denier".

I think you might be confusing 'AGW' with 'climate change', and 'sceptic' with 'denier'.

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 10:19am:

WHAT IS THEIR AGENDA ?

An AGW sceptic's "agenda" is finding out the truth.

I do realise, however, that the AGW disciples are not too fond of that prospect.

the same people that would claim that being a sceptic regarding the existence of God or anything else was a great thing jump on people who are sceptics about AGW. and it isnt as if AGW sceptics are denying science at all. What they are denying is the interpretation of data on a discipline we know almost nothing about. If for instance a few climate predictions actually came true might help but since they are all withgout execption a major bust, the the sceptics position is supporterd more and more.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Uncle Meat

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Re: What Makes Nick Tick
Reply #11 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:30pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:08pm:

... and it isnt as if AGW sceptics are denying science at all.

Exactly right.

However, the AGW disciples always like to call AGW sceptics "Climate Change Deniers". Roll Eyes

I certainly don't deny the existence of climate change.

Climate change has been happening for a long time now.

I simply don't support the AGW hypothesis.

However, I keep an open mind on the subject.

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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: What Makes Nick Tick Reply #12 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:39pm I'm not willing to gamble on my grand kids future when it comes to climate change and a clean energy future but its obvious that some people are. Just remember to tell your grand kids what side you were on when the burden is placed wholly on their shoulders.
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Uncle Meat

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Re: What Makes Nick Tick
Reply #13 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:45pm

adelcrow wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

I'm not willing to gamble on my grand kids future when it comes to climate change and a clean energy future but its obvious that some people are.
Just remember to tell your grand kids what side you were on when the burden is placed wholly on their shoulders.

Being an AGW sceptic doesn't put anyone's future in jeopardy.

A little less fear mongering would be good.

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longweekend58

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Re: What Makes Nick Tick
Reply #14 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 7:36pm

adelcrow wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

I'm not willing to gamble on my grand kids future when it comes to climate change and a clean energy future but its obvious that some people are.
Just remember to tell your grand kids what side you were on when the burden is placed wholly on their shoulders.

Your grand kids are more likely to ask 'grandpa, were you one of those idiots that thought the world was going to fry?' as they look to a world that has a bit of a 'cooling problem'. I trust you will be honest.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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