Australian Politics Forum - Timeline to repeal carbon tax

progressiveslol

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #30 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:27am

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:23am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:19am:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:07am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:47pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:26pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:24pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:17pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:10pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 9:07pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 8:46pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 8:40pm:

deluded

The so called deluded is exactly how liberals are going to play it and if not, then they had better.

The deluded is ANYBODY who thinks either the ALP or Greens will vote against a policy they themselves fought so hard to pass .... you say they will vote or face annihilation at a DD ... but you also say they will be annihilated at the next election ... if they are annihilated at the next election they have nothing else to loose , they know it will be at least another 8 years later before they are in the running, more than enough time to get over it... and they may even decide to give Abbott back some of his own medicine and play obstructionists ... which would serve him right.

Well, no, I am saying that they will/should be backed into a corner to answer the question before the election. The election that is about repealing the carbon tax or keeping it. "Will you labor, support the word of the people and vote to repeal the carbon tax if the liberals win the election'.

That will be a gem to see how labor perform with that question in the coming months to an election.

Really? If you believe everyone on here, the election is about carbon tax, mining tax, lieing, backstabbing Kevin, Batts fiasco, NBN, Peter Slipper scandal, Thompson scandal etc etc etc... and every other piece of rhetoric every repeats 24/7 ... what makes you think the elction will be about the carbon tax?

I think if Gillard is asked the question before the election, she should stick to her guns ... if he wants to make it about carbon tax do so, by the time we have an election, everyone will see that Abbott has been full of crap the whole time ... the sky won't fall down, we won't all starve, we won't all be energised to another planet or whatever other crap Abbott comes up with . Ohh, don't forget, he will at some point have to explain how he plans on paying for his promises if he gets rid of the tax ...

The question will have to be answered 'will labor support the decision by the people of Australia if liberals are elected. Will labor support the peoples opinion to repeal the carbon tax'. That is what it will be about. That will be what Abbott will be relying on to be able to repeal the tax quick smart.

What will labor's answer be.

Not to mention this will be the perfect opportuniy for the CO2 debate to go full speed, full swing. Cant wait.

I told you, I think her answer should be a definite NO ... they will not repeal the carbon tax legislation ...

Well I would love to hear it "No, I will not listen to the people of Australia, I will not support their decision to repeal the carbon tax'

That would be an awesome sound byte.

You mean like the soundbyte that we had when Abbott said no to an ETS? After all, it was what the people voted for ...

I would certainly use that, but at the election ahead, it does not effect it. I know what you are trying to say but to me, the greatest effect would be if the soundbyte were for what was coming, not for what was in the past. Abbott could easily say there was no election held on just the ets.

Just as Julia can say that the next election is not just about the carbon tax ...

Sure, she can try, but that too will look like she is lying to the people.

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adelcrow

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #31 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:37am

Carbon tax or not, reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and the transition to clean renewables is going to get more expensive the longer we leave it.
So if Abbott does yank the carbon tax and stumbles around for years with expensive but ineffective alternatives all he is doing is inflicting more pain on future generations than there needs to be.
Its no good lying to your grandkids and using the tired old excuse "I didnt know" because the overwhelming scientific evidence is out there for all to see.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #32 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:40am

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:37am:

Carbon tax or not, reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and the transition to clean renewables is going to get more expensive the longer we leave it.
So if Abbott does yank the carbon tax and stumbles around for years with expensive but ineffective alternatives all he is doing is inflicting more pain on future generations than there needs to be.
Its no good lying to your grandkids and using the tired old excuse "I didnt know" because the overwhelming scientific evidence is out there for all to see.

Yes it is and it is showing CO2 does stuff all to global temperatures. Empiracally not via failed models.

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adelcrow

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #33 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:42am

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:40am:

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:37am:

Carbon tax or not, reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and the transition to clean renewables is going to get more expensive the longer we leave it.
So if Abbott does yank the carbon tax and stumbles around for years with expensive but ineffective alternatives all he is doing is inflicting more pain on future generations than there needs to be.
Its no good lying to your grandkids and using the tired old excuse "I didnt know" because the overwhelming scientific evidence is out there for all to see.

Yes it is and it is showing CO2 does stuff all to global temperatures. Empiracally not via failed models.

Im talking about scientific evidence..not the wailing of shock jocks and various other crazies.

But which ever way you look at it...if your bitching about the cost now just wait a few more decades and then you will really have something to bitch about.
There wont be cost increases of a few dollars a week with compensation because by then we will be on an emergency footing and you will be looking at massive cost increases and economic and lifestyle downgrades.
Dont forget to tell your grand kids which side you were on Grin

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progressiveslol

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #34 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:43am

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:42am:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:40am:

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:37am:

Carbon tax or not, reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and the transition to clean renewables is going to get more expensive the longer we leave it.
So if Abbott does yank the carbon tax and stumbles around for years with expensive but ineffective alternatives all he is doing is inflicting more pain on future generations than there needs to be.
Its no good lying to your grandkids and using the tired old excuse "I didnt know" because the overwhelming scientific evidence is out there for all to see.

Yes it is and it is showing CO2 does stuff all to global temperatures. Empiracally not via failed models.

Im talking about scientific evidence..not the wailing of shock jocks and various other crazies.

Yes, that is what I was refering to as well.

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Dnarever

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #35 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:04am

Quote:

So how can he say that he will repeal the carbon tax within 6 months of coming into office. The best he can do is July 2014 if he gets a majority in the senate or February/March 2015 if there is a hostile senate that is most likely.

The time line here looks about right to me, maybe a bit on the agressive side but that was the idea.

Though to me this puts Mr Abbnott in an interesting position.

Does he understand this - in which case he has been telling porkies again.

OR

Does he not understand this in which case being a 30 year politician you would have to consider him to be incompetant?

To be a tad unkind you may ask liar or fool maybe both?

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Dnarever

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #36 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:12am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 8:27pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 4:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 4:52pm:

You ignore one possibility - that the ALP senateors will vote FOR the repeal. After all, with a massive mandate for Abbott it would be political suicide for them to vote against it. Abbott will force the ALP to say what they will do if he wins the election. The DD - no matter when - could decimate labor and STILL repeal the carbon tax.

See, here is the problem for labor. the CT is massively unpopular even with their own supporters. Labor runs the risk of losing a substantial number of senate votes if they say - during the election - they say they wont support a abbott mandate.

it's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be. Firstly, you assume Gillard wont go to the polls earlier or be forced to it. An election even a couple months earlier brings all your calculations back and entire year. an election in June would see the senators take their seats mere weeks later. two rejections three months apart and the DD could be on before October 2013.

I can see it now. Abbott declares this election is about repealing the carbon tax (or keeping it) and says 'what of you labor, will you vote to repeal the carbon tax if the people vote me in'

Labor will have to say (at some point when pushed) 'we will honor the word of the people'

lol

They go against that and they are mud mud mud for a long time. I doubt they will say 'we will not honor the peoples vote'

When an election is suffiently declared on one major issue, there is no squirming around it.

it will be glorious to watch Labor squirm over this one. with the CT about as popular as the plague, they will either choose to be honourable or face a massacre at a DD.

I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013.

From that position a DD election in 2015 would be very attractive to them.

They would be certain to oppose repealing the carbon price.

Keep in mind that a fixed carbon price will largely have been in place for a long time by 2015 and many will see the fear and smear campaign for what it is and also more than likely have had a gut full of Tnoy abbnott as PM.

All that Abbnott would achieve with a DD in 2015 is to lose seats.

He will not risk it over a policy which he originally suggested was the best option anyway - abbnott is not against a carbon tax he is just taking the political advantage from saying that he is. There is zero doubt that had Labor put a Carbon trading scheme into place we would be talking about that instead in the same terms.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #37 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:17am

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013.
.

As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it.
Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living.

So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on.

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Dnarever

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #38 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:21am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013.
.

As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it.
Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living.

So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on.

Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living.

There are people who claim that their was a mandate to introduce the GST.

The biggest wack to the cost of living in an any of our lifetimes.

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Dnarever

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #39 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:23am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013.
.

As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it.
Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living.

So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on.

I would think that in 15 months the carbon price will be less unpopular than today and by 2015 not many will care about it at all.

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adelcrow

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #40 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:24am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013.
.

As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it.
Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living.

So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on.

Govts are not there to implement policies the public and media like..they are there to implement policies we need.
Popular govts are never good govts and are always followed by govts that are forced to make tough unpopular decisions.
Dont forget Howard and Rudd went to elections with emissions trading schemes and Abbott voted down Rudds even though he had a mandate to implement it.
The sooner we face cutting our carbon pollution the cheaper and easier it will be. Abbott is just being a short sighted populist by delaying the inevitable and making it much more expensive and disruptive.

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adelcrow

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #41 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:26am

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:23am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013.
.

As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it.
Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living.

So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on.

I would think that in 15 months the carbon price will be less unpopular than today and by 2015 not many will care about it at all.

Like the GST people will be up in arms after being whipped in to a frenzy by the media and opposition but will soon forget once its bedded down and they realise the benefits far out way the small cost.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #42 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:26am

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:24am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013.
.

As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it.
Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living.

So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on.

Govts are not there to implement policies the public and media like..they are there to implement policies we need.
Popular govts are never good govts and are always followed by govts that are forced to make tough unpopular decisions.
Dont forget Howard and Rudd went to elections with emissions trading schemes and Abbott voted down Rudds even though he had a mandate to implement it.
The sooner we face cutting our carbon pollution the cheaper and easier it will be. Abbott is just being a short sighted populist by delaying the inevitable and making it much more expensive and disruptive.

I am not sure we need a policy which forces the cost of living up whilst doing nothing for global emissions.

PS - When you have polling like Labor have and the fact your popularity never heads north - it tends to suggest your policies are a crock of sh*t.

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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax Reply #43 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:31am Sounds like an excuse by morons to subsidise jobs with our competitors and hand free welfare around to nthe greenies I would have thought.
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adelcrow

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Re: Timeline to repeal carbon tax
Reply #44 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:31am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:26am:

adelcrow wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:24am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

I would think labor are likely to be decimated in 2013.
.

As a result of this policy and the fact people hate it.
Nobody will ever vote to RAISE the cost of living.

So to try and re-gain popularity by supporting the very policy which caused you to be as popular as a case of the plague - is hardly thinking with your head screwed on.

Govts are not there to implement policies the public and media like..they are there to implement policies we need.
Popular govts are never good govts and are always followed by govts that are forced to make tough unpopular decisions.
Dont forget Howard and Rudd went to elections with emissions trading schemes and Abbott voted down Rudds even though he had a mandate to implement it.
The sooner we face cutting our carbon pollution the cheaper and easier it will be. Abbott is just being a short sighted populist by delaying the inevitable and making it much more expensive and disruptive.

I am not sure we need a policy which forces the cost of living up whilst doing nothing for global emissions.

The rising cost of fossil fuels due to high demand have much more to do with consumer price rises and as the demand rises the costs will be much higher in the future making alternatives much more attractive. Already solar power systems are cheaper than buying a half decent bicycle.
Crikey my last bicycle was close to 10 grand where as I can power my whole house for a system that costs around 3 grand.

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