Australian Politics Forum - Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists

bobbythefap1

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Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Apr 19^th, 2012 at 10:48am

Seems like the sea food chain is suffering bad.
It has been going on a while now in 3rd world places.
But now the west is getting a dose, and you would think that would be enough to stop them from screwing up the ocean but apparently not.

Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/04/201241682318260912.html
Quote:

New Orleans, LA - "The fishermen have never seen anything like this," Dr Jim Cowan told Al Jazeera. "And in my 20 years working on red snapper, looking at somewhere between 20 and 30,000 fish, I've never seen anything like this either."

Please read the article.

Quote:

Eyeless shrimp, from a catch of 400 pounds of eyeless shrimp, said to be caught September 22, 2011, in Barataria Bay, Louisiana [Erika Blumenfeld/Al Jazeera]

Quote:

Signs of the impact on the regional ecosystem are ominous: mutated shrimp, fish with oozing sores, underdeveloped blue crabs lacking claws, eyeless crabs and shrimp - and scientists and fishermen point fingers towards BP's oil as being the cause [Keath Ladner

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists Reply #1 - Apr 19^th, 2012 at 12:14pm It's not just the seafood that's deformed around there.
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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26594 Australia	Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists Reply #2 - Apr 19^th, 2012 at 12:43pm Our world is getting more dangerous and some think theres nothing wrong with these ominous signs that something is amiss in the ecology. SOB
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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists Reply #3 - May 6^th, 2012 at 7:14pm
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mantra

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #4 - May 6^th, 2012 at 8:20pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 10:48am:

Seems like the sea food chain is suffering bad.
It has been going on a while now in 3rd world places.
But now the west is getting a dose, and you would think that would be enough to stop them from screwing up the ocean but apparently not.

Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/04/201241682318260912.html
Quote:

New Orleans, LA - "The fishermen have never seen anything like this," Dr Jim Cowan told Al Jazeera. "And in my 20 years working on red snapper, looking at somewhere between 20 and 30,000 fish, I've never seen anything like this either."

Pregnant women are advised not to eat fish because of the mercury, so it's no surprise that these mutations are occurring almost everywhere now. Our oceans have always been used as a garbage tip and as the population and their needs grow - so do the oil spills and chemical dumping. Add depleted uranium to the mix and it's going to be hard to find healthy seafood soon.

Fish and crustaceans don't taste the same anymore and often leave a chemical aftertaste after eating.

BP and other oil giants have a lot to answer for as they scar various coastlines with their "accidents". In the last decade there have been close to a hundred major oil disasters globally - the ones we know about anyway. Each disaster can shut down hundreds of industries, destroy coastal towns and local seafood is contaminated for decades.

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists Reply #5 - May 6^th, 2012 at 10:25pm One more reason to accelerate the shift to renewable energies.
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muso

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #6 - May 7^th, 2012 at 8:30am

Yes, you don't spill that amount of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico with no consequences.

The Gulf of Mexico is a bit warmer than Alaska, so at least it will clean itself up quicker (biodegradation) but they are going to be left with this legacy for a decade or so.

Regarding mercury in fish. That has been a problem for years. Pregnant women and others should avoid canned fish where you don't know anything about the origins of the fish. It's not usually a problem unless you eat fish every day.

As a rule of thumb, the bigger and older the fish, the greater the mercury content. It's also mainly a problem for large pelagic fish. I've remember seeing a batch of enormous frozen tuna in Kenya when I worked there around 1980, and I knew straight away that they would fail the EC Mercury standard. It's a situation that hasn't got any worse, but it hasn't got any better either.

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mantra

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #7 - May 8^th, 2012 at 8:26pm

muso wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 8:30am:

Yes, you don't spill that amount of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico with no consequences.

The Gulf of Mexico is a bit warmer than Alaska, so at least it will clean itself up quicker (biodegradation) but they are going to be left with this legacy for a decade or so.

Regarding mercury in fish. That has been a problem for years. Pregnant women and others should avoid canned fish where you don't know anything about the origins of the fish. It's not usually a problem unless you eat fish every day.

As a rule of thumb, the bigger and older the fish, the greater the mercury content. It's also mainly a problem for large pelagic fish. I've remember seeing a batch of enormous frozen tuna in Kenya when I worked there around 1980, and I knew straight away that they would fail the EC Mercury standard. It's a situation that hasn't got any worse, but it hasn't got any better either.

The situation would certainly be a lot worse than it was 30 years ago. The global population has doubled. Oil drilling would have increased tenfold at least and as a consequence there are hundreds, possibly thousands more disasters.

There are no solutions as governments are complicit in allowing such prolific exploration and transport of oil. People will pay anything for it and it keeps the economy ticking over.

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muso

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #8 - May 9^th, 2012 at 5:35am

There isn't as much mercury discharged these days. Governments all around the world clamped down on that following the Minamata episode. Many of the processes that used mercury, such as acetaldehyde production and the diaphragm process for caustic soda have become defunct.

There is still the question of coal fired power stations though. They give off Mercury and quite a few radioactive elements as well.

You can check on mercury discharges in Australia, and just about every other substance for that matter on the National Pollutant Inventory website:
http://www.npi.gov.au/
http://www.npi.gov.au/substances/mercury/source.html

It's a good site to identify the hotspots in your area. The total emission for last financial year for Australia was around 10 tonnes.

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« Last Edit: May 9^th, 2012 at 5:46am by muso »

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muso

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #9 - May 9^th, 2012 at 2:32pm

By the way, I can recommend an excellent book on the disaster. I'm about half way through it.

http://www.cch.com.au/au/onlinestore/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=9265&PageTitl...

Professor Andrew Hopkins, provides a very comprehensive view of the human and organisational factors that contributed to this disaster. He acknowledges that it is important to know what people did, but even more important to know why they did it. It's quite an eye opener.

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 23041 A cat with a view	Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists Reply #10 - May 9^th, 2012 at 2:43pm "Weird Al" Yankovic - Eat It - YouTube Just eat it!
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MOTR

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #11 - May 9^th, 2012 at 7:17pm

muso wrote on May 9^th, 2012 at 2:32pm:

By the way, I can recommend an excellent book on the disaster. I'm about half way through it.

http://www.cch.com.au/au/onlinestore/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=9265&PageTitl...

Professor Andrew Hopkins, provides a very comprehensive view of the human and organisational factors that contributed to this disaster. He acknowledges that it is important to know what people did, but even more important to know why they did it. It's quite an eye opener.

Got time to provide a synopsis, Muso? I'd be interested to read your take of it.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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mantra

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #12 - May 10^th, 2012 at 11:04am

MOTR wrote on May 9^th, 2012 at 7:17pm:

muso wrote on May 9^th, 2012 at 2:32pm:

By the way, I can recommend an excellent book on the disaster. I'm about half way through it.

Got time to provide a synopsis, Muso? I'd be interested to read your take of it.

Good idea - otherwise it will cost $85 to find out what the professor thinks.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists Reply #13 - May 10^th, 2012 at 11:06am I'll have a go on the weekend
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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists Reply #14 - May 10^th, 2012 at 7:28pm muso wrote on May 10^th, 2012 at 11:06am: I'll have a go on the weekend Only If you have the time, Muso. Weekends are precious.
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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #15 - May 11^th, 2012 at 2:46pm

mantra wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 8:26pm:

muso wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 8:30am:

Yes, you don't spill that amount of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico with no consequences.

The Gulf of Mexico is a bit warmer than Alaska, so at least it will clean itself up quicker (biodegradation) but they are going to be left with this legacy for a decade or so.

Regarding mercury in fish. That has been a problem for years. Pregnant women and others should avoid canned fish where you don't know anything about the origins of the fish. It's not usually a problem unless you eat fish every day.

As a rule of thumb, the bigger and older the fish, the greater the mercury content. It's also mainly a problem for large pelagic fish. I've remember seeing a batch of enormous frozen tuna in Kenya when I worked there around 1980, and I knew straight away that they would fail the EC Mercury standard. It's a situation that hasn't got any worse, but it hasn't got any better either.

The situation would certainly be a lot worse than it was 30 years ago. The global population has doubled. Oil drilling would have increased tenfold at least and as a consequence there are hundreds, possibly thousands more disasters.

There are no solutions as governments are complicit in allowing such prolific exploration and transport of oil. People will pay anything for it and it keeps the economy ticking over.

Growth economies are by definitions bubbles!

This century will experience massive change if we keep tapping the resourcefulness button in the wrong fashion!!

"TREAT EVERY MOVE AS IF IT WERE GOLD-DUST", SAID MORPHY!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists Reply #16 - May 12^th, 2012 at 8:15am MOTR wrote on May 10^th, 2012 at 7:28pm: muso wrote on May 10^th, 2012 at 11:06am: I'll have a go on the weekend Only If you have the time, Muso. Weekends are precious. Perhaps I'll wait until I've finished reading it
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muso

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #17 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 8:42pm

OK, nothing particularly new here. It came down to relaxed safety standards, normalisation of warning signs by both BP and contractors, and "groupthink" where anybody daring to speak out was shouted down. They even had protectors of the groupthink.

Too much financial pressure on getting the work done at the cost of safety. Probably the most dangerous attitude was the assumption that it was totally safe unless proven otherwise.

It reminded me of the Challenger Space Shuttle accident, in that there were people within Halliburton who were sounding the alarm, but the pressure associated with the value of the contract prevented such dissentors from getting a voice. Their views were suppressed by management.

What surprised me was the extent to which safety systems had diminished to that of mere lip-service and rubber-stamping. For example they carried out a critical test to determine if the well pressure vessel was intact. However, no definitive guidance was designed or provided for interpretation of data derived from the negative tests or prescribed the corrective action required if the negative tests did not provide assurance that the well pressure vessel was intact. Perhaps the most damning evidence was that the drilling crew had not received any formal training in performing this critical test. Effectively the test was meaningless.

This failed defense along with fundamental flaws in the process was one of the main causes of the Macondo blowout, but there was a number of other causes just as bad, for example the failure to leave well drilling liner overlaps uncemented. There were about 20 separate procedural failures that contributed to the disaster.

Anfrew Hopkins was one of the main investigators of the incident, and is a masterful writer on the subject of industrial accidents.

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« Last Edit: Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 8:51pm by muso »

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jay82

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #18 - Jun 13^th, 2012 at 9:30pm

Its cause of the pollutants dumped into the sea right? sad how our meaness is harming the sea creatures. Just yesterday i heard on the news that sea food is a blessing, if you feed the babies seafood in the 1st year of their birth its a cure against future chances of developing polio and some other illnesses.

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mantra

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #19 - Jun 14^th, 2012 at 3:50pm

muso wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 8:42pm:

OK, nothing particularly new here. It came down to relaxed safety standards, normalisation of warning signs by both BP and contractors, and "groupthink" where anybody daring to speak out was shouted down. They even had protectors of the groupthink.

Too much financial pressure on getting the work done at the cost of safety. Probably the most dangerous attitude was the assumption that it was totally safe unless proven otherwise.

It reminded me of the Challenger Space Shuttle accident, in that there were people within Halliburton who were sounding the alarm, but the pressure associated with the value of the contract prevented such dissentors from getting a voice. Their views were suppressed by management.

What surprised me was the extent to which safety systems had diminished to that of mere lip-service and rubber-stamping. For example they carried out a critical test to determine if the well pressure vessel was intact. However, no definitive guidance was designed or provided for interpretation of data derived from the negative tests or prescribed the corrective action required if the negative tests did not provide assurance that the well pressure vessel was intact. Perhaps the most damning evidence was that the drilling crew had not received any formal training in performing this critical test. Effectively the test was meaningless.

This failed defense along with fundamental flaws in the process was one of the main causes of the Macondo blowout, but there was a number of other causes just as bad, for example the failure to leave well drilling liner overlaps uncemented. There were about 20 separate procedural failures that contributed to the disaster.

This lack of regulation is common globally. Who cares about the destruction when there's a few bucks to be made.

Nothing is regulated anymore - yet these spills and accidents cause more environmental damage than smog.

We need a pollution tax - not a carbon tax and the revenue invested in more government regulation of heavy industry where some cash would be recouped by penalties.

The current fines are miniscule compared to the profits.

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muso

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Re: Gulf seafood deformities alarm scientists
Reply #20 - Jul 31^st, 2012 at 11:15am

Here's another good summary of the causes of the disaster:

http://www.sia.org.au/browse.aspx?ContentID=a-look-behind-the-gulf-of-mexico-dis...

Hopefully non SIA members can see this ok. The Engineers on board reported to production, so group-think took precedence and production pressures were more important to them than defects in the design process.

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