Australian Politics Forum - Boat of 60 sank thankfully,

MOTR

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #255 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:52pm

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:00pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 6:49pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

That is bullshit.

Nope. 100% fact.

" ... the fact that Australia is one of only eight countries whose immigration program actually specifies an annual quota of refugees ... "

http://www.erc.org.au/index.php?module=documents&JAS_DocumentManager_op=viewDocu...

If the boat people are displacing people who could have been in the immigration quota does that make them que jumpers?

You still quoting that guy who tells lies ?

Myth 16 is garbage probably a lot of other bullshit there as well.

Your leftist liar says they cannot get passports!

The government surveyed 3237 boat people ad 3200 of them flew into Indonesia with a passport then disposed of their passport before coming to Australia by boat.
That is almost 99% of boat people who destroy their papers wth the intention of deceiving immigration officials.

The immigration minister sidestepped the issue of almost 99% of boat people disposing of their passports.
http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/media/cb/2012/cb182430.htm

Wrong .. they dispose of their passports because the person in charge (smuggler) tells them they need to throw it away if they want to stay in Australia .. these are people who are running for their lives, in unfamiliar territory with unfamiliar rules ... they take the advice they are given in good faith. ... and do as they are instructed

The argument that they dispose of their passports to deceive immigration officials just doesn't stack up. If this was the case so many of them wouldn't be getting through the subsequent security checks. The vast majority of them are legitimate refugees. I believe they destroy them because they are told to by the smugglers. I'd say they wouldn't have much of a choice. The question I'd like answered is why? The only thing that makes sense to me is that there are some illegitimate refugees hiding amongst them, or perhaps it allows the people smugglers to hide amongst them.

The frustrating thing is this question has not been adequately answered, or if it has, it hasn't got much of a run in the media. Perhaps great one can help me out on this.

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #256 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:56pm

i am lucky to know thatyour Government does not think like you do.
We are good friends.

+++++++++++++++

Australian Minister Stephen Smith

"Thank you for that kind introduction and I delighted to be your guest here.

The 60th Anniversary of Israel's statehood, celebrated last year, was a time to reflect on and celebrate Israel's achievements.

It was also an opportunity to reaffirm Australia's ongoing support and friendship for Israel.

And from a personal point of view, I was pleased to be able to make my first visit to Israel as Foreign Minister during that anniversary year.

As Prime Minister Rudd said to the Australian Parliament on that occasion, Australia's relationship with Israel is both strong and deep.

Australia's commitment could not be more resolute, our friendship could not be closer.

We share a unique relationship based on Australia's historical support for Israel and our shared commitment to freedom, security and democracy. Our friendship will remain strong because our values are shared.

....."

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #257 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:00pm

MOTR wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:52pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:00pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 6:49pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

That is bullshit.

Nope. 100% fact.

" ... the fact that Australia is one of only eight countries whose immigration program actually specifies an annual quota of refugees ... "

http://www.erc.org.au/index.php?module=documents&JAS_DocumentManager_op=viewDocu...

If the boat people are displacing people who could have been in the immigration quota does that make them que jumpers?

You still quoting that guy who tells lies ?

Myth 16 is garbage probably a lot of other bullshit there as well.

Your leftist liar says they cannot get passports!

The government surveyed 3237 boat people ad 3200 of them flew into Indonesia with a passport then disposed of their passport before coming to Australia by boat.
That is almost 99% of boat people who destroy their papers wth the intention of deceiving immigration officials.

The immigration minister sidestepped the issue of almost 99% of boat people disposing of their passports.
http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/media/cb/2012/cb182430.htm

Wrong .. they dispose of their passports because the person in charge (smuggler) tells them they need to throw it away if they want to stay in Australia .. these are people who are running for their lives, in unfamiliar territory with unfamiliar rules ... they take the advice they are given in good faith. ... and do as they are instructed

The argument that they dispose of their passports to deceive immigration officials just doesn't stack up. If this was the case so many of them wouldn't be getting through the subsequent security checks. The vast majority of them are legitimate refugees. I believe they destroy them because they are told to by the smugglers. I'd say they wouldn't have much of a choice. The question I'd like answered is why? The only thing that makes sense to me is that there are some illegitimate refugees hiding amongst them, or perhaps it allows the people smugglers to hide amongst them.

The frustrating thing is this question has not been adequately answered, or if it has, it hasn't got much of a run in the media.

It does not stack up why a genuine refugee would need to dispose of passport when this document could prove they are genuine.

The approval rate for air arrivals from something posted by a leftist was around 20% of all applications yet when they dispose of their passports the leftists claim the majority are somehow genuine.
Blind freddy can see why they dipose of these documents.

Almost 99% of the boat people surveyed disposed of their passports after flying into Indonesia with a visa before coming here by boat.

83.5% of them are still on welfare up to 5 years after arrival

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MOTR

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #258 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:05pm

They destroy their passports because they are told to dispose of them. They don't have a choice. Cant you at least see this is a possibility. The argument that they are all cheating the system doesn't stack up because the ones that don't have passports subsequently prove who they are. You're implying that just about all of them are hiding their true identity. That is not true.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #259 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:08pm

MOTR wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:05pm:

Because they are told to dispose of them. They don't have a choice. It doesn't stack up because the ones that don't have passports subsequently prove who they are.

Why then are we told on Border control for our national service that if you confronted with asylum seeker who is not from Jordan - so is pass through Jordan -- that we must turn them back because is not Israel policy to accept people who pass through neutral lands?

Do that not seem sensible policy to you??

If they have no passport or documents, that is illegal at the checkpoint anyway.

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MOTR

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #260 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:15pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:08pm:

MOTR wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:05pm:

Because they are told to dispose of them. They don't have a choice. It doesn't stack up because the ones that don't have passports subsequently prove who they are.

Why then are we told on Border control for our national service that if you confronted with asylum seeker who is not from Jordan - so is pass through Jordan -- that we must turn them back because is not Israel policy to accept people who pass through neutral lands?

Do that not seem sensible policy to you??

If they have no passport or documents, that is illegal at the checkpoint anyway.

We don't have a refugee problem, Avram. In 2010 we had our lowest intake in 35 years.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #261 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:16pm

MOTR wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:15pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:08pm:

MOTR wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:05pm:

Because they are told to dispose of them. They don't have a choice. It doesn't stack up because the ones that don't have passports subsequently prove who they are.

Why then are we told on Border control for our national service that if you confronted with asylum seeker who is not from Jordan - so is pass through Jordan -- that we must turn them back because is not Israel policy to accept people who pass through neutral lands?

Do that not seem sensible policy to you??

If they have no passport or documents, that is illegal at the checkpoint anyway.

We don't have a refugee problem, Avram. In 2010 we had our lowest intake in 35 years.

i am sorry but i have been on the bus in sydney.
i have seen the population in some places.

I am surprised at who you has allowed in to this country. It is not as i expected.

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #262 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:18pm

You know when you allow these people in that it becomes harder to remove them - also what happens then when they has children who is born in Australia?
How do you get them out?

This is the argument for not allowing too many non-Jews into Jerusalem and Tel Aviv because what happen when they has children etc?

It becomes less Jewish.

Same for you - you will have more foreign people, more Muslim people more different culture.

You can end with making the same mistakes as Europe who has a huge problem of culture problems.

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully, Reply #263 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:23pm I know a lot of people who are the children of refugees. Wonderful Australians.
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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully, Reply #264 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:24pm MOTR wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:23pm: I know a lot of people who are the children of refugees. Wonderful Australians. All Israelis my parents age are children of refugees.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #265 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:24pm

MOTR wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:05pm:

They destroy their passports because they are told to dispose of them. They don't have a choice. Cant you at least see this is a possibility. The argument that they are all cheating the system doesn't stack up because the ones that don't have passports subsequently prove who they are. You're implying that just about all of them are hiding their true identity. That is not true.

They fly into Indonesia with a visa and passport, they could fly into Australia to claim asylum.

Why would you pay 10x the cost of an airfare to risk your life on an unseaworthy boat when you could fly in without having to employ a people smuggler?

Look where Christmas Island is on google earth, about 350 km from Indonesia and they still have to go another 1800-2000 km to reach mainland Australia.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Peter Freedman

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #266 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:25pm

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 5:39pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 3:02pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:56am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:52am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 17^th, 2012 at 9:26am:

Refugees take many risks fleeing for their lives seeking freedom.....Who are we to deny them asylum because we can point to a few instances when lives have been lost and claim it justifies persecution as a deterrent.....Australia is one of the few countries in the region where refugees can seek asylum and gain freedom.....Denying these desperate people any chance of freedom and persecuting them for accepting we are a free nation that has offered assistance is not good enough from our elected officials.....Australia should be proud it is a Nation that offers a safe haven to the desperate people who seek our help for a better life.....Otherwise we should take our signature off the refugee convention and accept we are not the Nation we claim to be!!!

Angry

In the truest sense, freedom cannot be bestowed; it must be achieved.
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1882 - 1945), Speech, September 22, 1936

The saddest thing is that our political leaders, rather than uniting in a humanitarian cause, have turned the asylum seeker issue intio a political football. The Labor Party should be ashamed of the way it is behaving.

I don't have a vote, not yet, but if I did I couldn't give it to the current Labor lot.

Not sure if you haven't the vote because your new to this country, or your to young, but boy have you got that all wrong ......

I don't have a vote yet as I have not yet qualified to be an Australian citizen. What have I got "all wrong"?

Blaming the whole asylum seeker debacle on the ALP ... We used to have Bi partisan agreement on the asylum seekers, until Howard looked like he was going to loose an election, so he decided that screw the asylum seekers, he would use them to scare the rednecks into voting for him.. his famous quote which you'll hear someone repeat on here every now and then is 'well decide who comes into this country, not the people smugglers '.. ... as far as politics goes it was a good strategy, it won him the election ... as far as humanity goes it was a giant leap backwards ...

You read me wrong, I do not blame the whole debacle on the ALP, but it is clear Labor is joining the Liberals in a rush to the bottom of the pit.

I expect the Liberals to act to type, humanitarian ideals are foreign to them. I don't expect a Labor government to act that way.

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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

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MOTR

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #267 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:29pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:24pm:

MOTR wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:05pm:

They destroy their passports because they are told to dispose of them. They don't have a choice. Cant you at least see this is a possibility. The argument that they are all cheating the system doesn't stack up because the ones that don't have passports subsequently prove who they are. You're implying that just about all of them are hiding their true identity. That is not true.

They fly into Indonesia with a visa and passport, they could fly into Australia to claim asylum.

Why would you pay 10x the cost of an airfare to risk your life on an unseaworthy boat when you could fly in without having to employ a people smuggler?

Look where Christmas Island is on google earth, about 350 km from Indonesia and they still have to go another 1800-2000 km to reach mainland Australia.

They would not be able to board an Australian bound plane without an Australian visa.

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MOTR

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Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully,
Reply #268 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:31pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:25pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 5:39pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 3:02pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:56am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:52am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 17^th, 2012 at 9:26am:

Refugees take many risks fleeing for their lives seeking freedom.....Who are we to deny them asylum because we can point to a few instances when lives have been lost and claim it justifies persecution as a deterrent.....Australia is one of the few countries in the region where refugees can seek asylum and gain freedom.....Denying these desperate people any chance of freedom and persecuting them for accepting we are a free nation that has offered assistance is not good enough from our elected officials.....Australia should be proud it is a Nation that offers a safe haven to the desperate people who seek our help for a better life.....Otherwise we should take our signature off the refugee convention and accept we are not the Nation we claim to be!!!

Angry

In the truest sense, freedom cannot be bestowed; it must be achieved.
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1882 - 1945), Speech, September 22, 1936

The saddest thing is that our political leaders, rather than uniting in a humanitarian cause, have turned the asylum seeker issue intio a political football. The Labor Party should be ashamed of the way it is behaving.

I don't have a vote, not yet, but if I did I couldn't give it to the current Labor lot.

Not sure if you haven't the vote because your new to this country, or your to young, but boy have you got that all wrong ......

I don't have a vote yet as I have not yet qualified to be an Australian citizen. What have I got "all wrong"?

Blaming the whole asylum seeker debacle on the ALP ... We used to have Bi partisan agreement on the asylum seekers, until Howard looked like he was going to loose an election, so he decided that screw the asylum seekers, he would use them to scare the rednecks into voting for him.. his famous quote which you'll hear someone repeat on here every now and then is 'well decide who comes into this country, not the people smugglers '.. ... as far as politics goes it was a good strategy, it won him the election ... as far as humanity goes it was a giant leap backwards ...

You read me wrong, I do not blame the whole debacle on the ALP, but it is clear Labor is joining the Liberals in a rush to the bottom of the pit.

I expect the Liberals to act to type, humanitarian ideals are foreign to them. I don't expect a Labor government to act that way.

As a party that likes to be described as a progressive party they have some very reactionary policies.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Uncle Meat Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2434 Tasmania Gender:	Re: Boat of 60 sank thankfully, Reply #269 - Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:42pm Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 7:00pm: If the boat people are displacing people who could have been in the immigration quota does that make them que jumpers? No. There is no queue: we have a quota system. Keep up.
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