Australian Politics Forum - Pesticides tied to decline in bee population

bobbythefap1

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Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population
Reply #45 - Apr 5^th, 2012 at 9:33pm

NZ food bill to make growing food a government privilege rather than a human right

http://www.naturalnews.com/034337_New_Zealand_food_freedom_human_rights.html

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The God-given human right to freely cultivate food is under attack in New Zealand (NZ) as special interest groups and others are currently attempting to push a "food security" bill through the nation's parliament that will strip individuals of their right to grow food, save seeds, and even share the fruits of their labor with friends and family members.

In accordance with the World Trade Organization's (WTO) Codex Alimentarius scheme for global food control, the NZ Food Bill, if passed, will essentially transfer primary control of food from individuals to corporations under the guise of food safety. And unless massive public outcry and awakened consciences within the NZ government are able to put a stop to it, the bill could become law very soon.

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population
Reply #46 - Apr 6^th, 2012 at 10:02am

Lets face it, they act like they are guilty dont they.
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Monsanto Threatens to Sue Vermont if Legislators Pass a Bill Requiring GMO Food to Be Labeled

http://www.alternet.org/food/154855/monsanto_threatens_to_sue_vermont_if_legisla...

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Despite overwhelming public support and support from a clear majority of Vermont’s Agriculture Committee, Vermont legislators are dragging their feet on a proposed GMO labeling bill. Why? Because Monsanto has threatened to sue the state if the bill passes.

The popular legislative bill requiring mandatory labels on genetically engineered food (H-722) is languishing in the Vermont House Agriculture Committee, with only four weeks left until the legislature adjourns for the year. Despite thousands of emails and calls from constituents who overwhelmingly support mandatory labeling, despite the fact that a majority (6 to 5) of Agriculture Committee members support passage of the measure, Vermont legislators are holding up the labeling bill and refusing to take a vote.

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Poland to ban Monsanto’s genetically modified maize

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http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/04/poland-to-ban-monsantos-genetically-modified-maize/

Quote:

WARSAW — Poland will impose a complete ban on growing the MON810 genetically modified strain of maize made by US company Monsanto on its territory, Agriculture Minister Marek Sawicki said Wednesday.

“The decree is in the works. It introduces a complete ban on the MON810 strain of maize in Poland,” Sawicki told reporters, adding that pollen of this strain could have a harmful effect on bees.

On March 9, seven European countries — Belgium, Britain, Bulgaria, France, Germany, Ireland and Slovakia — blocked a proposal by the Danish EU presidency to allow the cultivation of genetically-modified plants on the continent.

Seven days after that, France imposed a temporary ban on the MON810 strain.

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muso

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Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population
Reply #47 - Apr 7^th, 2012 at 7:50am

Did you just take everything at face value regarding the NZ Food Bill, or did you research it yourself?

Quote:

The bill in no way affects people's right to grow food and to then exchange, sell or trade it. Food grown at home for personal or family consumption or given away to friends is excluded from the bill.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/opinion/6271131/Nothing-to-fear-from-Food...

The Health Food industry is well overdue for an overhaul of regulations.

Here's an example. The internet was rife with sites promoting Apricot Kernels as a cancer cure. Now in moderation, they are fine, but they do contain Amygdalin and Laetrile, which are both cyanogenic glycosides. There are many other examples of this. Nutmeg is another.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1287169442/31#31

I still believe that a lot of this anti-industry reaction comes from a kind of paranoia. Some of it may be justified, but certainly not all.

If what you "know" about GM foods is based on activist sites like that, maybe it's time to do a reality check. Look at other sources and use your own judgement a bit. The internet is rife with conspiracy theories. The trick is to be able to apply a BS filter.

Beware - Pet theories can very quickly turn feral. Approach all emotive subjects like this with an open mind. Don't form any conclusions until you have had a chance to examine the evidence.

Usually I find that subjects with a lot of emotive content form a perfect habitat for the Lesser Crested Bvllshit Spreader.

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« Last Edit: Apr 7^th, 2012 at 8:21am by muso »

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population
Reply #48 - Apr 7^th, 2012 at 11:22am

The bill is setting the way for stricter bills in the future.
And it really just helps push a monopoly on smaller farmers.

Quote:

Here's an example. The internet was rife with sites promoting Apricot Kernels as a cancer cure. Now in moderation, they are fine, but they do contain Amygdalin and Laetrile, which are both cyanogenic glycosides. There are many other examples of this. Nutmeg is another.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1287169442/31#31

Nutmeg also gives a great high! Message me if you want to know how to prepare it.

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I still believe that a lot of this anti-industry reaction comes from a kind of paranoia. Some of it may be justified, but certainly not all.

While I am sure for a minute few this is true.
A lot of it comes from common sense, there is a bigger picture that most people do not see; likewise most people don’t think about the future.
Industry has some fatal flaws and while it’s a good short term idea, in the long term it is horrible unless of course you live in a world of infinite resources.

Quote:

If what you "know" about GM foods is based on activist sites like that, maybe it's time to do a reality check. Look at other sources and use your own judgement a bit. The internet is rife with conspiracy theories. The trick is to be able to apply a BS filter.

When I first started looking into it there was almost no web news on the topic, I took most of my information from scientific research, studies and firsthand accounts from people involved.

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Beware - Pet theories can very quickly turn feral. Approach all emotive subjects like this with an open mind. Don't form any conclusions until you have had a chance to examine the evidence.

Usually I find that subjects with a lot of emotive content form a perfect habitat for the Lesser Crested Bvllshit Spreader.

I usually base my opinion on the facts available.

Using emotive content is a justifiable tactic, if you have an opposition who thrive simply by using this then maybe facts aren’t enough to convince a human.

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muso

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Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population
Reply #49 - Apr 7^th, 2012 at 3:15pm

Did you listen to this programme when it was on ABC Radio? I always thought it was a good reality check on the use of pesticides and inorganic fertilisers. If you didn't, I'll try to retrieve some of the material off the web. The listeners chose to grow non GMO cotton. The outcome was quite an eye opener.

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/grow/about.htm

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population
Reply #50 - Apr 7^th, 2012 at 3:28pm

muso wrote on Apr 7^th, 2012 at 3:15pm:

Did you listen to this programme when it was on ABC Radio? I always thought it was a good reality check on the use of pesticides and inorganic fertilisers. If you didn't, I'll try to retrieve some of the material off the web. The listeners chose to grow non GMO cotton. The outcome was quite an eye opener.

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/grow/about.htm

What were the outcomes?

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muso

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Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population
Reply #51 - Apr 7^th, 2012 at 4:18pm

The outcome was less important than the insight into the problems faced by cotton growers. It was quite a fascinating series. At the time I was driving long distances, so it made for some interesting listening. There were many things that I learned from this series, and by the way it wasn't sponsored by Monsanto or anything like that.

The yield was considerably reduced, but the cotton was of good quality. They ended up making cotton teeshirts out of it which they sold to listeners I presume. They actually made the teeshirts in Australia, which came at a considerable premium.

I see that the sound bytes are missing, which is not surprising after 10 years. What I found really interesting was just how much of a balancing act cotton growing is in Australia. It was an eye-opener.

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bobbythefap1 Gold Member Offline Posts: 7026 Listen now to the rain	Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population Reply #52 - Apr 7^th, 2012 at 4:28pm Seems that there would be very little difference then, with higher quantity you get more specimens of high quality which would probably even itself out to the rates produced by GM. Cotton is not a good crop for australia.
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muso

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Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population
Reply #53 - Apr 7^th, 2012 at 4:42pm

Actually I agree that cotton is not necessarily a good crop for Australia.

By the way the reduction in yield in that case, actually made the difference between economically viable and non-viable. Also read about his experiments in which he didn't apply any pesticide to a small portion of his crop. The results were quite dramatic.

I found a reasonable summary of the "Grow your Own" programme, but I'm almost reluctant to give you this link.

The first article on this site is questionable. Anything with the University of Guelph and M&M should be regarded as questionable. Unfortunately Climate change is another highly emotive issue, although I agree that we shouldn't be using fiction to get the message across.

Read the one titled: 5 – Genetically modified organisms. It summarises where I stand on this issue quite well. It puts a risk management perspective on it.

If we want to produce large quantities of crops such as wheat, corn and rice, then we are forced into mono cultures. Monocultures are great when it comes to materials handling and harvesting, but they introduce all kinds of problems such as disease and pests. We are practically forced into using pesticides and herbicides for weed control.

By the way, I am well acquainted with Aquaculture. I was thinking of trying it out myself on a small scale. Maybe one day.

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« Last Edit: Apr 7^th, 2012 at 4:50pm by muso »

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population
Reply #54 - Apr 7^th, 2012 at 5:00pm

muso wrote on Apr 7^th, 2012 at 4:42pm:

Actually I agree that cotton is not necessarily a good crop for Australia.

By the way the reduction in yield in that case, actually made the difference between economically viable and non-viable. Also read about his experiments in which he didn't apply any pesticide to a small portion of his crop. The results were quite dramatic.

I found a reasonable summary of the "Grow your Own" programme, but I'm almost reluctant to give you this link.

The first article on this site is questionable. Anything with the University of Guelph and M&M should be regarded as questionable. Unfortunately Climate change is another highly emotive issue, although I agree that we shouldn't be using fiction to get the message across.

Read the one titled: 5 – Genetically modified organisms. It summarises where I stand on this issue quite well. It puts a risk management perspective on it.

If we want to produce large quantities of crops such as wheat, corn and rice, then we are forced into mono cultures. Monocultures are great when it comes to materials handling and harvesting, but they introduce all kinds of problems such as disease and pests. We are practically forced into using pesticides and herbicides for weed control.

By the way, I am well acquainted with Aquaculture. I was thinking of trying it out myself on a small scale. Maybe one day.

In the short term it is more viable, but in the long term poses much greater threats to the crops viability.

What is the link?

Climate change has been made into a highly emotive issue, and for good reason. Since we have been arguing about that we have forgotten that there are thousands of other real reasons why we should not be using fossil fuels, something that people were starting to realise just before the global warming phenomena hit.

There are organic and pesticide free methods, in a communal basis they are more then what we need.
Our current system is not economic and we need to set up local bases for growing food supply rather than importing and sourcing foods from 1000s of kms away.
We could easily supply food for everyone on this planet except the methods to do it right are not able to be commercialised.

Takes a few years to set up but it is one of the most rewarding form of agriculture

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muso

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Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population
Reply #55 - Apr 7^th, 2012 at 5:53pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2012 at 5:00pm:

In the short term it is more viable, but in the long term poses much greater threats to the crops viability.

What is the link?

Climate change has been made into a highly emotive issue, and for good reason. Since we have been arguing about that we have forgotten that there are thousands of other real reasons why we should not be using fossil fuels, something that people were starting to realise just before the global warming phenomena hit.

There are organic and pesticide free methods, in a communal basis they are more then what we need.
Our current system is not economic and we need to set up local bases for growing food supply rather than importing and sourcing foods from 1000s of kms away.
We could easily supply food for everyone on this planet except the methods to do it right are not able to be commercialised.

Takes a few years to set up but it is one of the most rewarding form of agriculture

I tend to think that you'd come across the same stumbling blocks as with Renewable Energy, namely commercial interests, and no matter how much you may wish for a brave new world, the reality is that we're going to have to use the economic system we already have. It's not perfect, but having seen extreme Marxism induced poverty in Africa, I assure you that you definitely don't want to go there. Apart from that, we don't have time to experiment with different economical systems.

The double standards can be quite bizarre, even in those who claim to be eco friendly. I checked out a new Vegetarian supplier in Brisbane last month, with Ecologically Friendly splashed across the door. I was amazed to find the Linda McCartney range of vegetarian pies and sausage rolls. They were manufactured in the UK!

I have no arguments that Climate Change should be an emotive issue. Its effects will dominate that of just about everything else during the next century and beyond. I also agree that people don't have their priorities set appropriately and are missing some important issues. For example, we are losing plant species at an incredible rate and will continue to do so into the future, but we're not giving due consideration to preserving the genetic material and we're not looking at species that will be better suited to warmer and drier climatic conditions. (or warmer and wetter depending on the region). These are factors that have enormous effects on crop yield.

By the way, there have been some encouraging trends towards urban based agriculture in recent times.

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« Last Edit: Apr 7^th, 2012 at 8:44pm by muso »

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Pesticides tied to decline in bee population
Reply #56 - Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 10:21am

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Instead of addressing issues of an environmental concern. Mosanto buy up the organisations that expose them. Really there should be laws in place to stop this kind of thing happening.

Blamed for Bee Collapse, Monsanto Buys Leading Bee Research Firm
http://theintelhub.com/2012/04/19/blamed-for-bee-collapse-monsanto-buys-leading-...
Quote:

Monsanto, the massive biotechnology company being blamed for contributing to the dwindling bee population, has bought up one of the leading bee collapse research organizations.

Recently banned from Poland with one of the primary reasons being that the company’s genetically modified corn may be devastating the dying bee population, it is evident that Monsanto is under serious fire for their role in the downfall of the vital insects.

It is therefore quite apparent why Monsanto bought one of the largest bee research firms on the planet.

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