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World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here? (Read 3702 times)
bobbythefap1
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #60 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:16pm
 
longweekend,
Wouldnt you rather be using renewable energy tho?
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BigOl64
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #61 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:18pm
 
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:12pm:
it is not a choice of nuclear or coal.

It's a choice of sustainable or unsustainable.

Coal, Coal Seam Gas and Nuclear is unsustainable.



Currently wind and solar are unusable for base-load power.

So what is the immediate solution?


If sustainable power was usable in an industrialised society then Germany would have shut down their nuclear and coal power stations already; but they haven't.

Shutting Australia down, is just another stupid greens policy that will never get implemented.


BTW this thread isn't about stupid greens policies, other than wanting to store Australia's nuclear waste in hospital cupboards all around Australia instead of a secure purposed built waste facility.




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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #62 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:22pm
 
Canadian Tar Sands And The True Cost Of Oil


Ten years ago, my wife and I sat huddled together, watching in horror the images from New York. We had just learned that my wife was pregnant, and as we sat there in disbelief, we feared for the future World our children would inherit. It never occurred to us that those terrible events would lead to the development of what would soon become known as the World’s largest and perhaps most environmentally damaging mega project, and that it would lie in the heart of Canada’s vast boreal forest wilderness.

Thousands of miles north from the horror of 9/11 lay the World’s second largest oil reserves, their development soon to be spurred on by the realities and fears arising from that fateful day. The ensuing search by America for a friendlier source for its energy needs, and the rapidly rising cost of oil propelled the development of Alberta’s Tar Sands to the point where they are now the United States' largest single source of oil and America is the market for the vast majority of the approximately 1.5 million barrels of oil produced there each day.

A few years later I had my first glimpse of Canada’s Tar Sands. Hovering over them in a helicopter, below me lay devastation on a scale that could be only described as biblical. Vast tar mines, refineries fouling the air, and the leaching and unlined tailings “ponds” which lie along the Athabasca River are the world’s largest toxic impoundments. Toxic lakes of industrial waste that can be seen from space.

A scant 70 miles downstream from the Tar Sands, the scene is replaced by one which is its polar opposite. The Peace Athabasca Delta, the world’s largest freshwater delta, set amidst the surrounding boreal forest ecosystem whose wetlands and forests store the greatest concentration of carbon of any ecosystem, and are being systematically destroyed to mine the tar that lies underneath. It is a terrible juxtaposition that earth’s most carbon rich forests and wetlands are being cleared, dredged, and dug up, all to be replaced with mines, tailings ponds, and pipelines, in order to produce oil whose production produces almost twice the carbon of conventional sources.

Development plans are to increase the production of the Tar Sands up to five million barrels of oil within the next 20 years and industrialize an area of land the size of Florida in the process. While we still need oil to meet our energy needs, true energy security will not be achieved through the expansion of the tar sands and further entrenching our dependency on fossil fuels, but through the development of alternate sustainable energy sources and through all of us reducing our consumption.

This will be difficult but we need to do it for our children. Recently, on a rainy Friday evening as we prepared to pick up a video for our weekly family video night, I suggested we drive to the store as the weather was bad and my children were fighting the flu, it was my youngest child’s turn to choose and there is no way she was going to miss the trip. She looked at me with the shock and disgust only a four year old can really muster and implored, “Dad, don’t you know, under a mile, bike in style!”

In order for that to happen, projects like the proposed Keystone XL pipeline to bring tar sands crude to the gulf coast for processing, and the proposed Gateway pipeline to facilitate shipping it to Asia, will need to be approved.

While we still need oil to meet our energy needs, true energy security will not be achieved through the expansion of the tar sands but through the development of alternate sustainable energy sources and through all of us reducing our consumption. This will be difficult but we need to do it for our children. Recently, on a rainy Friday evening as we prepared to pick up a video for our weekly family video night, I suggested we drive to the store as the weather was bad and my children were fighting the flu, it was my youngest child’s turn to choose and there is no way she was going to miss the trip. She looked at me with the shock and disgust only a four year old can really muster and implored, “Dad, don’t you know, under a mile, bike in style!”

The Tar Sands, also known as Oil Sands, - if you prefer the public relations created term – are now Canada’s largest, and fastest growing, single source of carbon. At the same time, Canada has gone from being one of the first signatories to the Kyoto Protocol to now becoming an obstacle to international efforts to reduce carbon and our dependency on fossil fuel.

In terms of global warming, the impacts of the Tar Sands are multiple. The vast forests and wetlands of the boreal forest which they lie under, are considered the most carbon rich forest ecosystem on the planet. Storing almost twice as much carbon per hectare as tropical rainforests, the boreal forest is the planet’s greatest terrestrial carbon storehouse. To the industry, these diverse and ecologically significant forests and wetlands are referred to as overburden, the forest to be stripped and the wetlands dredged and replaced by mines and tailings ponds so vast they can be seen from outer space. So, as the expansion of the tar sands consumes more boreal forest and wetlands, it is releasing to the atmosphere all the carbon stored in this ecosystem. At the same time, we also lose the long term future carbon sequestration of these forests and wetlands. In turn, they are replaced by an industrial operation which produces almost twice as much carbon as conventional oil production.

However the global reach of the tar sands is even greater than that. Pipelines to the American Midwest and Texas pump this bitumen for refining there. In the process, these areas are will also be importing many of the toxic impacts of the Tar Sands to their jurisdiction. The building of the proposed Alberta Clipper and Keystone pipelines, will only increase this trend and the impacts.


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longweekend58
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #63 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:22pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:16pm:
longweekend,
Wouldnt you rather be using renewable energy tho?


id rathe be flying a rocket pack to work and shops as well. but i am constrained by REALITY. R/E is not the saviour of the environment nor is it anywhere near an economic substitute for fossil energy at this stage.

What I WANT still ahs to match up with what i can actually HAVE.

its only in green-inspired wankfests that the luxury of expecting everythign I want seems to matter.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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____
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #64 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:23pm
 
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longweekend58
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #65 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:25pm
 
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:22pm:
Canadian Tar Sands And The True Cost Of Oil


Ten years ago, my wife and I sat huddled together, watching in horror the images from New York. We had just learned that my wife was pregnant, and as we sat there in disbelief, we feared for the future World our children would inherit. It never occurred to us that those terrible events would lead to the development of what would soon become known as the World’s largest and perhaps most environmentally damaging mega project, and that it would lie in the heart of Canada’s vast boreal forest wilderness.

Thousands of miles north from the horror of 9/11 lay the World’s second largest oil reserves, their development soon to be spurred on by the realities and fears arising from that fateful day. The ensuing search by America for a friendlier source for its energy needs, and the rapidly rising cost of oil propelled the development of Alberta’s Tar Sands to the point where they are now the United States' largest single source of oil and America is the market for the vast majority of the approximately 1.5 million barrels of oil produced there each day.

A few years later I had my first glimpse of Canada’s Tar Sands. Hovering over them in a helicopter, below me lay devastation on a scale that could be only described as biblical. Vast tar mines, refineries fouling the air, and the leaching and unlined tailings “ponds” which lie along the Athabasca River are the world’s largest toxic impoundments. Toxic lakes of industrial waste that can be seen from space.

A scant 70 miles downstream from the Tar Sands, the scene is replaced by one which is its polar opposite. The Peace Athabasca Delta, the world’s largest freshwater delta, set amidst the surrounding boreal forest ecosystem whose wetlands and forests store the greatest concentration of carbon of any ecosystem, and are being systematically destroyed to mine the tar that lies underneath. It is a terrible juxtaposition that earth’s most carbon rich forests and wetlands are being cleared, dredged, and dug up, all to be replaced with mines, tailings ponds, and pipelines, in order to produce oil whose production produces almost twice the carbon of conventional sources.

Development plans are to increase the production of the Tar Sands up to five million barrels of oil within the next 20 years and industrialize an area of land the size of Florida in the process. While we still need oil to meet our energy needs, true energy security will not be achieved through the expansion of the tar sands and further entrenching our dependency on fossil fuels, but through the development of alternate sustainable energy sources and through all of us reducing our consumption.

This will be difficult but we need to do it for our children. Recently, on a rainy Friday evening as we prepared to pick up a video for our weekly family video night, I suggested we drive to the store as the weather was bad and my children were fighting the flu, it was my youngest child’s turn to choose and there is no way she was going to miss the trip. She looked at me with the shock and disgust only a four year old can really muster and implored, “Dad, don’t you know, under a mile, bike in style!”

In order for that to happen, projects like the proposed Keystone XL pipeline to bring tar sands crude to the gulf coast for processing, and the proposed Gateway pipeline to facilitate shipping it to Asia, will need to be approved.

While we still need oil to meet our energy needs, true energy security will not be achieved through the expansion of the tar sands but through the development of alternate sustainable energy sources and through all of us reducing our consumption. This will be difficult but we need to do it for our children. Recently, on a rainy Friday evening as we prepared to pick up a video for our weekly family video night, I suggested we drive to the store as the weather was bad and my children were fighting the flu, it was my youngest child’s turn to choose and there is no way she was going to miss the trip. She looked at me with the shock and disgust only a four year old can really muster and implored, “Dad, don’t you know, under a mile, bike in style!”

The Tar Sands, also known as Oil Sands, - if you prefer the public relations created term – are now Canada’s largest, and fastest growing, single source of carbon. At the same time, Canada has gone from being one of the first signatories to the Kyoto Protocol to now becoming an obstacle to international efforts to reduce carbon and our dependency on fossil fuel.

In terms of global warming, the impacts of the Tar Sands are multiple. The vast forests and wetlands of the boreal forest which they lie under, are considered the most carbon rich forest ecosystem on the planet. Storing almost twice as much carbon per hectare as tropical rainforests, the boreal forest is the planet’s greatest terrestrial carbon storehouse. To the industry, these diverse and ecologically significant forests and wetlands are referred to as overburden, the forest to be stripped and the wetlands dredged and replaced by mines and tailings ponds so vast they can be seen from outer space. So, as the expansion of the tar sands consumes more boreal forest and wetlands, it is releasing to the atmosphere all the carbon stored in this ecosystem. At the same time, we also lose the long term future carbon sequestration of these forests and wetlands. In turn, they are replaced by an industrial operation which produces almost twice as much carbon as conventional oil production.

However the global reach of the tar sands is even greater than that. Pipelines to the American Midwest and Texas pump this bitumen for refining there. In the process, these areas are will also be importing many of the toxic impacts of the Tar Sands to their jurisdiction. The building of the proposed Alberta Clipper and Keystone pipelines, will only increase this trend and the impacts.




and your point is what? that we shoudl embrace clean nuclear energy instead??

how about you try an embrace and actual policy that is workable affordable and achievable. All; you ever do is pronouce motherhood statements while you dont even have the deceny to get a job (or a bath, education, brain etc)
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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____
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #66 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:25pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:15pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:12pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:06pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:02pm:
... wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:58pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:51pm:
Iran will be looking for income post peak oil.
Perhaps offer them all the nuke waste.



They may decide to share it with their mates Israel.



It may have escaped your ken that Iran is located near the edge of tectonic plates.  I'd rather nuclear leaks didn't happen at all, than happen in Iran.




Then stand up with me and end uranium mining.

No Australian uranium, nuclear is priced out by sustainable energy across the globe.

Result, no nuke waste.



Result NO nuclear medicine, more treatable disease going untreated.

Result more coal fired power stations being built, more pollution

Result morons win





it is not a choice of nuclear or coal.

It's a choice of sustainable or unsustainable.

Coal, Coal Seam Gas and Nuclear is unsustainable.



that is nothing more than a motherhood statement - an ideological position and nothing more.




under-estimate sustainability, real sustainable policies, amongst voters all you like.

The more you do, the happier I am.
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #67 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:26pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:13pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:07pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:02pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:00pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:54pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:51pm:
Iran will be looking for income post peak oil.
Perhaps offer them all the nuke waste.



They may decide to share it with their mates Israel.



you havent heard....

PEAK OIL HAS BEEN PUT OFF 150 years.

technology to explort dhale oil and tarsand oil is now economic and between canda and USA alon they have 15 times the amount saudi arabia has - the bigges oil exporter by far.

so tough luck for you Greens. it will be petrol cars for a very very long time.




Sorry Long to burst your bubble, it's not compatible with Global Greens desire, to build a sustainable world economy.

i.e

  http://www.nrdc.org/wildlife/borealbirds.pdf



feel me shake... a party than cannot win a seat on its own doesnt like petrol...

big deal...

oil will be running the economy for 100 years or more.



Glad you believe yourself so much that you have to reinforce yourself by repeating a belief over and over a mantra minus any backup via science.


the science is all there already just waiting for intelligent people to read it. of course that excludes you.

but it doesnt matter because whether you accept it or not, peak oil is a myth at best and a con at worst. with 150 years of oil supplies CURRENTLY known and about 500 yeras of gas, it will be a long time before you mud-hut subsistence lifestyle dream becomes a reality.


Oh yeah. Infinite supplies of oil. We'll never run out.  Tongue
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____
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #68 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:28pm
 
Quote:
and your point is what? that we shoudl embrace clean nuclear energy instead??

how about you try an embrace and actual policy that is workable affordable and achievable. All; you ever do is pronouce motherhood statements while you dont even have the deceny to get a job (or a bath, education, brain etc)



Reveals your insecurities in your opinions, nothing else.
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____
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #69 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:30pm
 
Gist wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:26pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:13pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:07pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:02pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:00pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:54pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:51pm:
Iran will be looking for income post peak oil.
Perhaps offer them all the nuke waste.



They may decide to share it with their mates Israel.



you havent heard....

PEAK OIL HAS BEEN PUT OFF 150 years.

technology to explort dhale oil and tarsand oil is now economic and between canda and USA alon they have 15 times the amount saudi arabia has - the bigges oil exporter by far.

so tough luck for you Greens. it will be petrol cars for a very very long time.




Sorry Long to burst your bubble, it's not compatible with Global Greens desire, to build a sustainable world economy.

i.e

  http://www.nrdc.org/wildlife/borealbirds.pdf



feel me shake... a party than cannot win a seat on its own doesnt like petrol...

big deal...

oil will be running the economy for 100 years or more.



Glad you believe yourself so much that you have to reinforce yourself by repeating a belief over and over a mantra minus any backup via science.


the science is all there already just waiting for intelligent people to read it. of course that excludes you.

but it doesnt matter because whether you accept it or not, peak oil is a myth at best and a con at worst. with 150 years of oil supplies CURRENTLY known and about 500 yeras of gas, it will be a long time before you mud-hut subsistence lifestyle dream becomes a reality.


Oh yeah. Infinite supplies of oil. We'll never run out.  Tongue




All pyramid schemes last forever.
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bobbythefap1
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #70 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:59pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:22pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:16pm:
longweekend,
Wouldnt you rather be using renewable energy tho?


id rathe be flying a rocket pack to work and shops as well. but i am constrained by REALITY. R/E is not the saviour of the environment nor is it anywhere near an economic substitute for fossil energy at this stage.

What I WANT still ahs to match up with what i can actually HAVE.

its only in green-inspired wankfests that the luxury of expecting everythign I want seems to matter.

You say you are constrained by reality yet you have admitted that you believe in fairy tales.. One is a lie because you can’t have both mate.
R/E is definitely an environmental saviour compared to fossils/nuclear and on its own it is about as close as you will get to a saviour.
The economic cost of fossil fuels is huge, it creates death and wars in places like Africa ruins entire ecosystems and is polluting the very air and planet we need to even exist.
It is also extremely ignorant to be dependent a resource which is so heavily monopolised by one small group.
We have an economy and corpocracy which is suppressing the advancement of renewable energy, something that has been a mastered science for over half a century.
Renewable energy is advancement; you cannot have infinite growth in a finite world longweekend.
You share the same problem most in western society have which is not giving a shyt about something until it affects you directly. We need to be adults and solve problems before they get out of hand.
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longweekend58
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #71 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:42pm
 
Gist wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:26pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:13pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:07pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:02pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:00pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:54pm:
____ wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:51pm:
Iran will be looking for income post peak oil.
Perhaps offer them all the nuke waste.



They may decide to share it with their mates Israel.



you havent heard....

PEAK OIL HAS BEEN PUT OFF 150 years.

technology to explort dhale oil and tarsand oil is now economic and between canda and USA alon they have 15 times the amount saudi arabia has - the bigges oil exporter by far.

so tough luck for you Greens. it will be petrol cars for a very very long time.




Sorry Long to burst your bubble, it's not compatible with Global Greens desire, to build a sustainable world economy.

i.e

  http://www.nrdc.org/wildlife/borealbirds.pdf



feel me shake... a party than cannot win a seat on its own doesnt like petrol...

big deal...

oil will be running the economy for 100 years or more.



Glad you believe yourself so much that you have to reinforce yourself by repeating a belief over and over a mantra minus any backup via science.


the science is all there already just waiting for intelligent people to read it. of course that excludes you.

but it doesnt matter because whether you accept it or not, peak oil is a myth at best and a con at worst. with 150 years of oil supplies CURRENTLY known and about 500 yeras of gas, it will be a long time before you mud-hut subsistence lifestyle dream becomes a reality.


Oh yeah. Infinite supplies of oil. We'll never run out.  Tongue


and in todays lesson on english comprehension we learn that 150years is not the same as infinite.

you are starting to make Greens-lose look educated.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #72 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:43pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:59pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:22pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:16pm:
longweekend,
Wouldnt you rather be using renewable energy tho?


id rathe be flying a rocket pack to work and shops as well. but i am constrained by REALITY. R/E is not the saviour of the environment nor is it anywhere near an economic substitute for fossil energy at this stage.

What I WANT still ahs to match up with what i can actually HAVE.

its only in green-inspired wankfests that the luxury of expecting everythign I want seems to matter.

You say you are constrained by reality yet you have admitted that you believe in fairy tales.. One is a lie because you can’t have both mate.
R/E is definitely an environmental saviour compared to fossils/nuclear and on its own it is about as close as you will get to a saviour.
The economic cost of fossil fuels is huge, it creates death and wars in places like Africa ruins entire ecosystems and is polluting the very air and planet we need to even exist.
It is also extremely ignorant to be dependent a resource which is so heavily monopolised by one small group.
We have an economy and corpocracy which is suppressing the advancement of renewable energy, something that has been a mastered science for over half a century.
Renewable energy is advancement; you cannot have infinite growth in a finite world longweekend.
You share the same problem most in western society have which is not giving a shyt about something until it affects you directly. We need to be adults and solve problems before they get out of hand.


you are missing the point, dimmest of the dim.  R/E is not economic yet nor is it in any way able to generate the amount of energy we need. if it could, dont you think we would already be doing that? are you that dim to not realisethat people will always choose cheaper over more expensive?

wake up.
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« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:51pm by longweekend58 »  

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #73 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:53pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:43pm:
R/E is not economic yet nor is it in any way able to generate the amount of energy we need.



And do you believe unequivocally that the CT will not at least in some way drive innovation in this area?

Never mind, getting back to the OP, because as you say the average punter will always take the easy cheap option, we will be able to fill in our resource holes with nuclear waste. I'm sure the Twiggies and Palmers have just the place and Tony may even spin it as part of DA and be able to give them the best possible $$$.

YAY TONE Smiley
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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Re: World's Nuclear Waste Dump Here?
Reply #74 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:53pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:42pm:
and in todays lesson on english comprehension we learn that 150years is not the same as infinite.

you are starting to make Greens-lose look educated.


And in today's lesson on sarcasm comprehension we learn that longwhine runs true to his form on everything else and hasn't a clue
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"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)
 
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