Australian Politics Forum - Why Do Libs Support More Dams

Maqqa

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #30 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 11:02am

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 10:52am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 10:24am:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

Governments across the nation have been telling domestic users to cut their use whilst agriculture and industry are allowed to consume at will.....Domestic use is about 10% of consumption where as industry and agriculture use up to 60% plus of this precious resource.....Cutting domestic use will have little affect on storage levels it is industry and agriculture that are required to manage their use to have any net affect on water storage.....Yet Governments across the nation ignore the big users and punish domestic users for little gain.....Industry and agriculture get very cheap water and waste a lot of it as a result.....More needs to be done to address this problem!!!

Try 5% for domestic use

Your point is cutting domestic usage would make little difference

Then how come lefties want to reduce Australian carbon emissions when we contribute 1.35%

Because carbon emissions are world wide not only local that is why.....If all the countries in the world reduced their emissions by 5% on 2000 levels it adds up to a lot of carbon.....If the rest of the world agrees to act both Labor and the Coalition have agreed to reduce emissions by up to 15% on 2000 levels but the 5% target is a commitment both sides of politics have agreed to.....Doing nothing to reduce emissions is not an option being considered by anyone accept the extremist climate change deniers who have no political support and verge on the fringe of reality.....Climate Change cannot be ignored because a few fruit loops refuse to accept reality!!!

It is no good to try to stop knowledge from going forward. Ignorance is never better than knowledge.
Enrico Fermi (1901 - 1954)

Yet not all countries are doing it - not even close

With water - it's isolated to just Australia and you said it'll make little difference

Yet on a world scale you think it'll change temperature

Or are we doing in desperate hope that others will follow and when others don't follow and the economic damage to Australia is done you'll console yourself with "at least we tried"

you'll use logic in the case of water yet you'll use stubborn stupidity in the case of carbon emissions

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corporate_whitey

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #31 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 11:20am

Quote:

Tony Abbott's dam solution for flooded rivers

TONY Abbott will develop a plan to build a series of dams around the nation, as part of the Coalition's policy platform for the next election.

Its a great idea and dams form such an attractive part of the natural environment once they are built. Why does the Government put such population pressure on our continents scarce resources with immigration when we are already over populated by about 10 million people? Cool

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FRED.

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #32 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 11:24am

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

Governments across the nation have been telling domestic users to cut their use whilst agriculture and industry are allowed to consume at will.....Domestic use is about 10% of consumption where as industry and agriculture use up to 60% plus of this precious resource.....Cutting domestic use will have little affect on storage levels it is industry and agriculture that are required to manage their use to have any net affect on water storage.....Yet Governments across the nation ignore the big users and punish domestic users for little gain.....Industry and agriculture get very cheap water and waste a lot of it as a result.....More needs to be done to address this problem!!!

HA HA AGRICULTURE USE To feed the the city dwellers that waste the water washing cars and driveways lolool Grin

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____

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #33 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 11:28am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 11:02am:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 10:52am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 10:24am:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

Governments across the nation have been telling domestic users to cut their use whilst agriculture and industry are allowed to consume at will.....Domestic use is about 10% of consumption where as industry and agriculture use up to 60% plus of this precious resource.....Cutting domestic use will have little affect on storage levels it is industry and agriculture that are required to manage their use to have any net affect on water storage.....Yet Governments across the nation ignore the big users and punish domestic users for little gain.....Industry and agriculture get very cheap water and waste a lot of it as a result.....More needs to be done to address this problem!!!

Try 5% for domestic use

Your point is cutting domestic usage would make little difference

Then how come lefties want to reduce Australian carbon emissions when we contribute 1.35%

Because carbon emissions are world wide not only local that is why.....If all the countries in the world reduced their emissions by 5% on 2000 levels it adds up to a lot of carbon.....If the rest of the world agrees to act both Labor and the Coalition have agreed to reduce emissions by up to 15% on 2000 levels but the 5% target is a commitment both sides of politics have agreed to.....Doing nothing to reduce emissions is not an option being considered by anyone accept the extremist climate change deniers who have no political support and verge on the fringe of reality.....Climate Change cannot be ignored because a few fruit loops refuse to accept reality!!!

It is no good to try to stop knowledge from going forward. Ignorance is never better than knowledge.
Enrico Fermi (1901 - 1954)

Yet not all countries are doing it - not even close

With water - it's isolated to just Australia and you said it'll make little difference

Yet on a world scale you think it'll change temperature

Or are we doing in desperate hope that others will follow and when others don't follow and the economic damage to Australia is done you'll console yourself with "at least we tried"

you'll use logic in the case of water yet you'll use stubborn stupidity in the case of carbon emissions

The issue of fresh water security is not exclusive to Australia.

The major river systems of India and China, South America and Europe are at risk and are not alone.

And here is another country
Israel's water economy is on the brink of a crisis.

Demand and consumption are increasing, exceeding the capacity of the natural sources, which are being depleted. Water quality in the sources is deteriorating, due to over-exploitation and intensive human activity. The government of Israel decided on an integrated policy and action:

-To preserve and protect the existing reserves, in quality and quantity.
-To increase considerably the supply of potable water, mainly through seawater desalination and purification of water sources.
-To advance the treatment of sewage, its collection and purification, turning it into the main source of water for agriculture (replacing potable water).
-To intensify water saving in all sectors by economic measures - raising the price, as well as by legal means, enforcement, improved management and organization.
-To invest in Agrotechnology, to convert agriculture to using mainly low quality water - recycled waste water, brack

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/8/Israel-s%20Water%20Economy...

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longweekend58

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #34 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:45pm

____ wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:22am:

olde.sault wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:13am:

____ wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 6:20pm:

White elephants during drought

Building new ones are as risky as betting behind drunken sailors at a casino since rain patterns will shift due to AGW

And in flood, weapons of mass destruction.

So why some in the old parties so keen on old ideas like Dams

Tony Abbott's dam solution for flooded rivers

TONY Abbott will develop a plan to build a series of dams around the nation, as part of the Coalition's policy platform for the next election.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/tony-abbotts-dam-solution-for-f...

Heavy rain leaves Warragamba bursting and sends residents packing

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/heavy-rain-leaves-warragamba-bursting-...

What a question for this period when all the rainwater is lost again, running into the sea!

You really need a shrink!

If dams had already been built, ready for this rain, billions would not have been spent on desalination plants that now aren't needed.

Aside from this, droughts will return and these plants will be of use that's if Labor politicians don't let them rust up in the meantime.

Down with all communists!

When the droughts are back, these white elephants sit idle

and still no one from the right have said where the cash will come from to build white elephants.

If we are to waterproof, how about starting with a measure that is less costly and more efficient

i.e water efficiencies, rainwater harvesting, water tanks and so on..

what do you think 'rainwater harvesting' is???? DAMS!!!

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____

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #35 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:51pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:45pm:

____ wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:22am:

olde.sault wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:13am:

____ wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 6:20pm:

White elephants during drought

Building new ones are as risky as betting behind drunken sailors at a casino since rain patterns will shift due to AGW

And in flood, weapons of mass destruction.

So why some in the old parties so keen on old ideas like Dams

Tony Abbott's dam solution for flooded rivers

TONY Abbott will develop a plan to build a series of dams around the nation, as part of the Coalition's policy platform for the next election.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/tony-abbotts-dam-solution-for-f...

Heavy rain leaves Warragamba bursting and sends residents packing

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/heavy-rain-leaves-warragamba-bursting-...

What a question for this period when all the rainwater is lost again, running into the sea!

You really need a shrink!

If dams had already been built, ready for this rain, billions would not have been spent on desalination plants that now aren't needed.

Aside from this, droughts will return and these plants will be of use that's if Labor politicians don't let them rust up in the meantime.

Down with all communists!

When the droughts are back, these white elephants sit idle

and still no one from the right have said where the cash will come from to build white elephants.

If we are to waterproof, how about starting with a measure that is less costly and more efficient

i.e water efficiencies, rainwater harvesting, water tanks and so on..

what do you think 'rainwater harvesting' is???? DAMS!!!

Rainwater harvesting is what Adelaide is doing, putting it into wetlands ~ like the one near salsbury / wakefield highway ... you know, that wetland area in your own city.

Rainwater harvesting is sending it underground for storages ... not building white elephants with loaned money and have then sit around idle.

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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams Reply #36 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:54pm Quote: not building white elephants with loaned money and have then sit around idle. OR overflow,as Warragamba is today, putting at risk hundreds of houses and thousands of peoples lives.Why are neo cons so bloody stupid? it must be a gene they're born with.
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adelcrow

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #37 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:54pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:45pm:

____ wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:22am:

olde.sault wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:13am:

____ wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 6:20pm:

White elephants during drought

Building new ones are as risky as betting behind drunken sailors at a casino since rain patterns will shift due to AGW

And in flood, weapons of mass destruction.

So why some in the old parties so keen on old ideas like Dams

Tony Abbott's dam solution for flooded rivers

TONY Abbott will develop a plan to build a series of dams around the nation, as part of the Coalition's policy platform for the next election.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/tony-abbotts-dam-solution-for-f...

Heavy rain leaves Warragamba bursting and sends residents packing

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/heavy-rain-leaves-warragamba-bursting-...

What a question for this period when all the rainwater is lost again, running into the sea!

You really need a shrink!

If dams had already been built, ready for this rain, billions would not have been spent on desalination plants that now aren't needed.

Aside from this, droughts will return and these plants will be of use that's if Labor politicians don't let them rust up in the meantime.

Down with all communists!

When the droughts are back, these white elephants sit idle

and still no one from the right have said where the cash will come from to build white elephants.

If we are to waterproof, how about starting with a measure that is less costly and more efficient

i.e water efficiencies, rainwater harvesting, water tanks and so on..

what do you think 'rainwater harvesting' is???? DAMS!!!

Being in the water industry you should know that once it hits the ground and starts flowing down rivers and streams its not called rain anymore.

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longweekend58

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #38 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:55pm

adelcrow wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:45pm:

____ wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:22am:

olde.sault wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:13am:

____ wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 6:20pm:

White elephants during drought

Building new ones are as risky as betting behind drunken sailors at a casino since rain patterns will shift due to AGW

And in flood, weapons of mass destruction.

So why some in the old parties so keen on old ideas like Dams

Tony Abbott's dam solution for flooded rivers

TONY Abbott will develop a plan to build a series of dams around the nation, as part of the Coalition's policy platform for the next election.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/tony-abbotts-dam-solution-for-f...

Heavy rain leaves Warragamba bursting and sends residents packing

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/heavy-rain-leaves-warragamba-bursting-...

What a question for this period when all the rainwater is lost again, running into the sea!

You really need a shrink!

If dams had already been built, ready for this rain, billions would not have been spent on desalination plants that now aren't needed.

Aside from this, droughts will return and these plants will be of use that's if Labor politicians don't let them rust up in the meantime.

Down with all communists!

When the droughts are back, these white elephants sit idle

and still no one from the right have said where the cash will come from to build white elephants.

If we are to waterproof, how about starting with a measure that is less costly and more efficient

i.e water efficiencies, rainwater harvesting, water tanks and so on..

what do you think 'rainwater harvesting' is???? DAMS!!!

Being in the water industry you should know that once it hits the ground and starts flowing down rivers and streams its not called rain anymore.

a pedantic and rather pointless distinction that adds not a jot of value to the discussion at hand.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #39 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:58pm

____ wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:51pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:45pm:

____ wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:22am:

olde.sault wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:13am:

____ wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 6:20pm:

White elephants during drought

Building new ones are as risky as betting behind drunken sailors at a casino since rain patterns will shift due to AGW

And in flood, weapons of mass destruction.

So why some in the old parties so keen on old ideas like Dams

Tony Abbott's dam solution for flooded rivers

TONY Abbott will develop a plan to build a series of dams around the nation, as part of the Coalition's policy platform for the next election.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/tony-abbotts-dam-solution-for-f...

Heavy rain leaves Warragamba bursting and sends residents packing

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/heavy-rain-leaves-warragamba-bursting-...

What a question for this period when all the rainwater is lost again, running into the sea!

You really need a shrink!

If dams had already been built, ready for this rain, billions would not have been spent on desalination plants that now aren't needed.

Aside from this, droughts will return and these plants will be of use that's if Labor politicians don't let them rust up in the meantime.

Down with all communists!

When the droughts are back, these white elephants sit idle

and still no one from the right have said where the cash will come from to build white elephants.

If we are to waterproof, how about starting with a measure that is less costly and more efficient

i.e water efficiencies, rainwater harvesting, water tanks and so on..

what do you think 'rainwater harvesting' is???? DAMS!!!

Rainwater harvesting is what Adelaide is doing, putting it into wetlands ~ like the one near salsbury / wakefield highway ... you know, that wetland area in your own city.

Rainwater harvesting is sending it underground for storages ... not building white elephants with loaned money and have then sit around idle.

Rainwater harvesting is NOT defined as the methodologies you personaly like liek MAR (manage aquifer recharge). MAR is good but a very expensive method of harvesting and not alway suitable as well as having limits to its use impose by the geology of the region. and dont kid yourself that wetland are doing anythgin significant in the supply of water.

dams and reservoirs remain our primary source of 'rainwater harvesting' for reaons that are obvious to most people. cheap, easy and low-tech. the best and cheapest of all solutions.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #40 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 2:00pm

skippy. wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

Quote:

not building white elephants with loaned money and have then sit around idle.

OR overflow,as Warragamba is today, putting at risk hundreds of houses and thousands of peoples lives.Why are neo cons so bloody stupid? it must be a gene they're born with.

truly you are vying for the title of chief idiot. what do you think would be happening now if there was no dam??? they'd already be flooded out before now. Just like Wivenhoe Dam saved Brisbane from total disaster.

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adelcrow

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #41 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 2:01pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:45pm:

____ wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:22am:

olde.sault wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 7:13am:

____ wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 6:20pm:

White elephants during drought

Building new ones are as risky as betting behind drunken sailors at a casino since rain patterns will shift due to AGW

And in flood, weapons of mass destruction.

So why some in the old parties so keen on old ideas like Dams

Tony Abbott's dam solution for flooded rivers

TONY Abbott will develop a plan to build a series of dams around the nation, as part of the Coalition's policy platform for the next election.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/tony-abbotts-dam-solution-for-f...

Heavy rain leaves Warragamba bursting and sends residents packing

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/heavy-rain-leaves-warragamba-bursting-...

What a question for this period when all the rainwater is lost again, running into the sea!

You really need a shrink!

If dams had already been built, ready for this rain, billions would not have been spent on desalination plants that now aren't needed.

Aside from this, droughts will return and these plants will be of use that's if Labor politicians don't let them rust up in the meantime.

Down with all communists!

When the droughts are back, these white elephants sit idle

and still no one from the right have said where the cash will come from to build white elephants.

If we are to waterproof, how about starting with a measure that is less costly and more efficient

i.e water efficiencies, rainwater harvesting, water tanks and so on..

what do you think 'rainwater harvesting' is???? DAMS!!!

Being in the water industry you should know that once it hits the ground and starts flowing down rivers and streams its not called rain anymore.

a pedantic and rather pointless distinction that adds not a jot of value to the discussion at hand.

Read what you wrote..thats exactly what you were doing Tongue

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____

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #42 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 2:03pm

There again perhaps we are being too hard on long, look at the sort of people he takes notice of

If people can't rely on statements like "most scientists agree" and so forth, like that, with an issue of this complexity, how are they supposed to come to an opinion on it?

How should people come to some conclusion when scientists disagree? I think this is a problem that people will have to ask themselves. They'll have to say: What happens in the worst case? Supposing the scientists who say it will warm are correct, is that good or bad? And the answer is: If it warms, it will be good. So what is the concern, really? Even if the warming should take place, and the warming will be noticeable...if that should be the case, if it is measurable, that does not mean that it is economically damaging. In fact, the opposite is true.

But you might get, for instance, flooding in Bangladesh or in the [Maldive] Islands, or in southern United States. Those have to be scenarios. If you have a warming up,four or five degrees, those are possibilities, aren't they?

We have to ask, what is the impact of a warmer climate? It's not the warming itself that we should be concerned about. It is the impact. So we have to then ask: What is the impact on agriculture? The answer is: It's positive. It's good. What's the impact on forests of greater levels of CO2 and greater temperatures? It's good. What is the impact on water supplies? It's neutral. What is the impact on sea level? It will produce a reduction in sea-level rise. It will not raise sea levels. What is the impact on recreation? It's mixed. You get, on the one hand, perhaps less skiing; on the other hand, you get more sunshine and maybe better beach weather.

Let's face it. People like warmer climates. There's a good reason why much of the U.S. population is moving into the Sun Belt, and not just people who are retiring.
http://blog.gerbilnow.com/2012/03/warmer-climate-good-for-singer.html

about the author

Dr S Fred Singer

He is an atmospheric physicist at George Mason University and founder of the Science and Environmental Policy Project, a think tank on climate and environmental issues. Singer has been a leading skeptic of the scientific consensus on global warming. He points out that the scenarios are alarmist, computer models reflect real gaps in climate knowledge, and future warming will be inconsequential or modest at most.

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skippy.

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Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams
Reply #43 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 2:03pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 2:00pm:

skippy. wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

Quote:

not building white elephants with loaned money and have then sit around idle.

OR overflow,as Warragamba is today, putting at risk hundreds of houses and thousands of peoples lives.Why are neo cons so bloody stupid? it must be a gene they're born with.

truly you are vying for the title of chief idiot. what do you think would be happening now if there was no dam??? they'd already be flooded out before now. Just like Wivenhoe Dam saved Brisbane from total disaster.

If there was no dam there would be no overflow,so no need to evacuate homes.Were you born stupid or do you practice hard everyday?numnuts. Roll Eyes

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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: Why Do Libs Support More Dams Reply #44 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 2:04pm And there is nothing cheap about creating and maintaining new reservoirs.
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