Australian Politics Forum - Should Voluntary Euthanasia Be An Election Issue?

corporate_whitey

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Re: Should Voluntary Euthanasia Be An Election Issue?
Reply #60 - Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:09am

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:04am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:38am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Mar 1^st, 2012 at 8:17pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 1^st, 2012 at 7:34pm:

I dont think any of you have given anything but opinion.
Why should your opinion dictate the way another lives their life?
What right do you have to say someone cant do something to themselves, just like you wouldnt want someone to do the same to you.
Law should not make illegal victimless crime because it makes the innocent victims, which defeats the purpose of law.

The position in the Netherlands is more than just opinion.
I don't care if someone does not want to live on this little blue speck anymore and then freely and of their own volition ends their own life. That is available to them now, without legislation (for it needs none) and is none of my business.
But it is not for the State to turn it into a cottage industry. It is much too readily open to abuse.

perfectly said. most proponents of VE are incredibly naive. imagine a situation where people are afraid of going to the doctor because they fear euthanasia? even if theat fer is midfounded it indicates that VE has brought a great degree of fear to people who think they could be coerved into suicide or considered incompetent and euthanised against their wishes.

Santorum ‘grossly mischaracterized’ Netherlands euthanasia policy

GOP presidential candidate Rick Santorum’s “demagogic” social message of women flying small planes, worship of Israel and winking at Iran has another bizarre twist and includes elderly Dutch people wearing “Do not euthanize me” bracelets.
The Dutch government is being urged to make a public statement over Santorum’s recent comments on the Dutch euthanasia policy, in which the Republican presidential hopeful falsely claimed forced euthanasia in the Netherlands is responsible for five percent of the country’s deaths.
Labour MP Frans Timmermans is calling on Foreign minister Uri Rosenthal to make a public statement over the “scandalous” comments ushered forth by Santorum. “I have asked him to make a public statement. This cannot be allowed to rest,” Timmermans said on his Facebook page, according to Dutch News.
American media has finally begun scrutinizing comments Santorum has made in his run to the top of recent polls, showing him out in front of the GOP field. In the scrutiny was evidence of false claims by the Pennsylvania senator, called one of the most corrupt senators in the United States in 2006, over the Netherlands’ euthanasia policy.
A video posted to YouTube by Right Wing Watch, an arm of People for the American Way, shows Santorum stating the elderly Dutch wear a bracelet which reads “Do not euthanize me.” He continues with his pronouncement,
Because they have voluntary euthanasia in the Netherlands, but half the people who are euthanized every year — and it’s 10 percent of all deaths for the Netherlands — half of those people are euthanized involuntarily, at hospitals, because they are older and sick. And so elderly people in the Netherlands don’t go to the hospital, they go to another country, because they’re afraid because of budget purposes that they will not come out of that hospital if they go into it with sickness.
The New York Times notes the Dutch ambassador to the US has refused comment on Santorum’s remarks, who has said the Dutch government’s preference is not to get involved in the American presidential race.
Voluntary euthanasia has been legal in the Netherlands since 2002, and accounted for about two percent of deaths in 2010, Dutch News reports. The procedure requires consent of two doctors and is carried out under strict conditions.
Dutch embassy spokeswoman Carla Bundy told the Washington Post, “According to the Ministry of Health, ‘Do not euthanize me’ bracelets do not exist in the Netherlands.”
FactCheck.org, a nonpartisan group which monitors U.S. politicians’ factual accuracy, said Santorum, during his participation at religious forum earlier in February, “grossly mischaracterized” the Netherlands euthanasia policy.
Last week, Common Dreams said Santorum is delivering a "demagogic social message," betrayed by his Mister Rogers appearance.
Santorum’s campaign has not responded to requests for explanations where the “corrupt” Senator’s sources obtained information for his euthanasia comments.

This is a reactionary panic copy and paste post - nobody will waste their time reading it. Cool

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____

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Re: Should Voluntary Euthanasia Be An Election Issue?
Reply #61 - Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:11am

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:02am:

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:59am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:40am:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:04am:

For those that want to die with dignity if their other option for the last months of their life is being bedridden and zonked to the brain on pain killers they should have the choice of Euthanasia. For those that dont want the option they do not have to use it.
Its quite simple really.

and THAT is about as niave as you can get. to think that everyone has good morals and concience and would never try and encourage and elderly relative to suicide... even though it has been shown to happen. and to think that the non-consensual euthanasia of the disabled and retard wouldnt happen - despite the fact that it has.

you almost deserve to see the world your naievete would produce.

If people break the law and commit murder then the law is the vehicle to sort these kind of matters.

One bad apple should not be used to punish all terminally ill people via excessive suffering and loss of dignity.

That is not a valid argument for giving the state more power to kill and you take away from people the dignity of dying on their own terms if the state is involved. It just shows how cruel and inhumane the State killing advocates are. Cool

Motor Vehicles kill and people purposely take mind altering drugs either legally and illegally and then get behind a wheel. Should we use this small percentage of people to stop all people from driving vehicles ... or do we continue and have the Laws sort these issues.

I take it you oppose all forms of state sanctioned death.

How about abortion when the mother's life is at risk?

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corporate_whitey

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Re: Should Voluntary Euthanasia Be An Election Issue?
Reply #62 - Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:15am

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:11am:

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:02am:

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:59am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:40am:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:04am:

For those that want to die with dignity if their other option for the last months of their life is being bedridden and zonked to the brain on pain killers they should have the choice of Euthanasia. For those that dont want the option they do not have to use it.
Its quite simple really.

and THAT is about as niave as you can get. to think that everyone has good morals and concience and would never try and encourage and elderly relative to suicide... even though it has been shown to happen. and to think that the non-consensual euthanasia of the disabled and retard wouldnt happen - despite the fact that it has.

you almost deserve to see the world your naievete would produce.

If people break the law and commit murder then the law is the vehicle to sort these kind of matters.

One bad apple should not be used to punish all terminally ill people via excessive suffering and loss of dignity.

That is not a valid argument for giving the state more power to kill and you take away from people the dignity of dying on their own terms if the state is involved. It just shows how cruel and inhumane the State killing advocates are. Cool

Motor Vehicles kill and people purposely take mind altering drugs either legally and illegally and then get behind a wheel. Should we use this small percentage of people to stop all people from driving vehicles ... or do we continue and have the Laws sort these issues.

I take it you oppose all forms of state sanctioned death.

How about abortion when the mother's life is at risk?

Invalid argument does not require a response, I oppose all state involvement in the termination of life where that is the intended outcome. Cool

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____

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Re: Should Voluntary Euthanasia Be An Election Issue?
Reply #63 - Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:37am

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:15am:

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:11am:

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:02am:

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:59am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:40am:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:04am:

For those that want to die with dignity if their other option for the last months of their life is being bedridden and zonked to the brain on pain killers they should have the choice of Euthanasia. For those that dont want the option they do not have to use it.
Its quite simple really.

and THAT is about as niave as you can get. to think that everyone has good morals and concience and would never try and encourage and elderly relative to suicide... even though it has been shown to happen. and to think that the non-consensual euthanasia of the disabled and retard wouldnt happen - despite the fact that it has.

you almost deserve to see the world your naievete would produce.

If people break the law and commit murder then the law is the vehicle to sort these kind of matters.

One bad apple should not be used to punish all terminally ill people via excessive suffering and loss of dignity.

That is not a valid argument for giving the state more power to kill and you take away from people the dignity of dying on their own terms if the state is involved. It just shows how cruel and inhumane the State killing advocates are. Cool

Motor Vehicles kill and people purposely take mind altering drugs either legally and illegally and then get behind a wheel. Should we use this small percentage of people to stop all people from driving vehicles ... or do we continue and have the Laws sort these issues.

I take it you oppose all forms of state sanctioned death.

How about abortion when the mother's life is at risk?

Invalid argument does not require a response, I oppose all state involvement in the termination of life where that is the intended outcome. Cool

Nothing wrong with the question, do you support abortion when the mother's life is at risk?

Yes or No?

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tonegunman1

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Re: Should Voluntary Euthanasia Be An Election Issue?
Reply #64 - Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 11:02am

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:11am:

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:02am:

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:59am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:40am:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:04am:

For those that want to die with dignity if their other option for the last months of their life is being bedridden and zonked to the brain on pain killers they should have the choice of Euthanasia. For those that dont want the option they do not have to use it.
Its quite simple really.

and THAT is about as niave as you can get. to think that everyone has good morals and concience and would never try and encourage and elderly relative to suicide... even though it has been shown to happen. and to think that the non-consensual euthanasia of the disabled and retard wouldnt happen - despite the fact that it has.

you almost deserve to see the world your naievete would produce.

If people break the law and commit murder then the law is the vehicle to sort these kind of matters.

One bad apple should not be used to punish all terminally ill people via excessive suffering and loss of dignity.

That is not a valid argument for giving the state more power to kill and you take away from people the dignity of dying on their own terms if the state is involved. It just shows how cruel and inhumane the State killing advocates are. Cool

Motor Vehicles kill and people purposely take mind altering drugs either legally and illegally and then get behind a wheel. Should we use this small percentage of people to stop all people from driving vehicles ... or do we continue and have the Laws sort these issues.

I take it you oppose all forms of state sanctioned death.

How about abortion when the mother's life is at risk?

A 1990 report had the death rate in the Netherlands from eurthanasia running at 9.1% of total deaths of which the report found the majority were without concent. That is not a small percentage.
Now who is throwing out red herrings?...this is about euthanasia not abortion.

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longweekend58

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Re: Should Voluntary Euthanasia Be An Election Issue?
Reply #65 - Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 11:28am

tonegunman1 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 11:02am:

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:11am:

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:02am:

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:59am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:40am:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:04am:

For those that want to die with dignity if their other option for the last months of their life is being bedridden and zonked to the brain on pain killers they should have the choice of Euthanasia. For those that dont want the option they do not have to use it.
Its quite simple really.

and THAT is about as niave as you can get. to think that everyone has good morals and concience and would never try and encourage and elderly relative to suicide... even though it has been shown to happen. and to think that the non-consensual euthanasia of the disabled and retard wouldnt happen - despite the fact that it has.

you almost deserve to see the world your naievete would produce.

If people break the law and commit murder then the law is the vehicle to sort these kind of matters.

One bad apple should not be used to punish all terminally ill people via excessive suffering and loss of dignity.

That is not a valid argument for giving the state more power to kill and you take away from people the dignity of dying on their own terms if the state is involved. It just shows how cruel and inhumane the State killing advocates are. Cool

Motor Vehicles kill and people purposely take mind altering drugs either legally and illegally and then get behind a wheel. Should we use this small percentage of people to stop all people from driving vehicles ... or do we continue and have the Laws sort these issues.

I take it you oppose all forms of state sanctioned death.

How about abortion when the mother's life is at risk?

A 1990 report had the death rate in the Netherlands from eurthanasia running at 9.1% of total deaths of which the report found the majority were without concent. That is not a small percentage.
Now who is throwing out red herrings?...this is about euthanasia not abortion.

9.1%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how is that not a travesty of major proportions.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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corporate_whitey

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Re: Should Voluntary Euthanasia Be An Election Issue?
Reply #66 - Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 1:46pm

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:37am:

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:15am:

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:11am:

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:02am:

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:59am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:40am:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:04am:

For those that want to die with dignity if their other option for the last months of their life is being bedridden and zonked to the brain on pain killers they should have the choice of Euthanasia. For those that dont want the option they do not have to use it.
Its quite simple really.

and THAT is about as niave as you can get. to think that everyone has good morals and concience and would never try and encourage and elderly relative to suicide... even though it has been shown to happen. and to think that the non-consensual euthanasia of the disabled and retard wouldnt happen - despite the fact that it has.

you almost deserve to see the world your naievete would produce.

If people break the law and commit murder then the law is the vehicle to sort these kind of matters.

One bad apple should not be used to punish all terminally ill people via excessive suffering and loss of dignity.

That is not a valid argument for giving the state more power to kill and you take away from people the dignity of dying on their own terms if the state is involved. It just shows how cruel and inhumane the State killing advocates are. Cool

Motor Vehicles kill and people purposely take mind altering drugs either legally and illegally and then get behind a wheel. Should we use this small percentage of people to stop all people from driving vehicles ... or do we continue and have the Laws sort these issues.

I take it you oppose all forms of state sanctioned death.

How about abortion when the mother's life is at risk?

Invalid argument does not require a response, I oppose all state involvement in the termination of life where that is the intended outcome. Cool

Nothing wrong with the question, do you support abortion when the mother's life is at risk?

Yes or No?

The question is without relevance, meaning or foundation as the issue involves the right of the state to perform a procedure where its intent is to terminate life. Its the word "intent" with regard to human life which is key here in the performance of any procedure. So again, your question is irrelevant... Cool

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____

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Re: Should Voluntary Euthanasia Be An Election Issue?
Reply #67 - Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 2:39pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 11:28am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 11:02am:

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:11am:

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 10:02am:

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:59am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 9:40am:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:04am:

For those that want to die with dignity if their other option for the last months of their life is being bedridden and zonked to the brain on pain killers they should have the choice of Euthanasia. For those that dont want the option they do not have to use it.
Its quite simple really.

and THAT is about as niave as you can get. to think that everyone has good morals and concience and would never try and encourage and elderly relative to suicide... even though it has been shown to happen. and to think that the non-consensual euthanasia of the disabled and retard wouldnt happen - despite the fact that it has.

you almost deserve to see the world your naievete would produce.

If people break the law and commit murder then the law is the vehicle to sort these kind of matters.

One bad apple should not be used to punish all terminally ill people via excessive suffering and loss of dignity.

That is not a valid argument for giving the state more power to kill and you take away from people the dignity of dying on their own terms if the state is involved. It just shows how cruel and inhumane the State killing advocates are. Cool

Motor Vehicles kill and people purposely take mind altering drugs either legally and illegally and then get behind a wheel. Should we use this small percentage of people to stop all people from driving vehicles ... or do we continue and have the Laws sort these issues.

I take it you oppose all forms of state sanctioned death.

How about abortion when the mother's life is at risk?

A 1990 report had the death rate in the Netherlands from eurthanasia running at 9.1% of total deaths of which the report found the majority were without concent. That is not a small percentage.
Now who is throwing out red herrings?...this is about euthanasia not abortion.

9.1%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how is that not a travesty of major proportions.

Yet dutch legalised voluntary euthanasia came into law in 2002.

Why are you quoting from 1990.

or are you trying to paint suicides as euthanasia?

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Should Voluntary Euthanasia Be An Election Issue? Reply #68 - Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 3:30pm tHE sTATE SHOULD BE ABOLISHED BEFORE THEY COMPLETELY WRECK OUR WAY OF LIFE AND HAVE US LIVING ON THE STREET WITH HURRICANE LAMPS.
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tonegunman1

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Re: Should Voluntary Euthanasia Be An Election Issue?
Reply #69 - Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 4:12pm

____ wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 2:39pm: