Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Will of the People fails to sway Caucus (Read 1595 times)
Andrei.Hicks
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male
Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:14pm
 
Hartcher, always a decent writer. His book on the Howard election remains one of the best I have read.

++++++++++++

Labor has overwhelmingly endorsed the candidate of the unions and the party machine over the candidate of the people.

For a political party that has been super-sensitive to opinion polls in the past, it was a remarkable rejection of the public will.

The people consistently prefer Kevin Rudd to Julia Gillard as Labor leader by a factor of about two to one. But Labor has gone the other way by a factor of more than two to one. For a party that is on a steady trajectory to electoral defeat, it was an extraordinary act of steely resolve. Or suicidal madness.

Under the Gillard leadership, Labor lost its parliamentary majority and then proceeded consistently to register the lowest primary vote on record.

And the only polling figures to shift in the past week beyond the margin of error was Gillard’s approval rating.

Yet the vote of 71 to 31 for Gillard suggests that Rudd, on net, has failed to win over any votes since last week. Even more remarkably, he has failed to win any votes since losing the leadership 20 months ago.

Some names have moved from one column to the other on the caucus voting lists, but, on a net basis, the caucus has shown itself to be deeply entrenched in defending Gillard.

This is a violation of one of the customary laws of leadership challenges – that the challenger carries momentum.

The repudiation of Rudd reflects three forces.

First, it illustrates the power of the Labor institutional infrastructure of unions and their caucus outgrowth, the factions. Not one trade union supported Rudd.

Second, it shows the visceral personal dislike for Rudd in the caucus. The great bulk of the caucus would rather protect its comfortable working conditions under Gillard than choose a difficult leader more likely to deliver an election win.

Third, it demonstrates a commitment to continue to deliver its existing agenda. Oddly enough, it is largely an agenda drafted by Rudd.

The 40-vote margin compares with a 22-vote margin in Paul Keating’s first and failed strike at Bob Hawke. So Rudd faces a much bigger task to win in any second challenge. It would take a very dramatic shift to move 22 votes.


-Peter Hartcher
Sydney Morning Herald Political Editor
Back to top
 

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #1 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:18pm
 
just what is meant by the will of the people???.

dont tell me a POLL taken from about 1200 people is now whats known as the WILL OF THE PEOPLE..

I hardly think so.. to me the will of the people is at the voting box.. and nowhere else.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Andrei.Hicks
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #2 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:20pm
 
cods wrote on Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:18pm:
I hardly think so.. to me the will of the people is at the voting box.. and nowhere else.


Kevin Rudd is the only Labor leader to have won an election in 16 years cods.

He has never lost an election and never been removed by the people.
Back to top
 

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
IP Logged
 
BatteriesNotIncluded
Gold Member
*****
Offline


MediocrityNET: because
people died for this!

Posts: 26966
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #3 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:20pm
 
THE HOWARD ERA GOT SPAT ON BY THE WHOLE OF THE AUSTRALIAN ELECTORATE BAR NONE!!

I'LL TELL YOU AGAIN,... BAR NONE!

I DON'T KNOW ONE CRACK SMOKER WHO STILL TALKS ABOUT JOHN HOWARD LIKE THEY USED TO BACK IN THE BAD OLD DAYS OF PRETENDING YOUR DEALER WAS TOUGHER THAN THE ONE DOWN THE STREET!!

TRUE  M-Embarrassed Embarrassed f()*&%'N-STORY PAL!  Shocked Shocked
Back to top
 

*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
IP Logged
 
Andrei.Hicks
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #4 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:24pm
 
Cods, this part of the SMH political column puts it in a nutshell.


Gillard's central problem is that she is widely considered illegitimate and all polling for a year suggests she's unelectable;

Rudd's main problem is that most of the caucus would rather lose government than work under him.

The Prime Minister is unacceptable to the people; the alternative leader is unacceptable to the people who choose the prime minister.

Or, as a Labor Party official put it yesterday: "She'll still be illegitimate and he'll still be a bastard."

Back to top
 

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #5 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:34pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:24pm:
Cods, this part of the SMH political column puts it in a nutshell.


Gillard's central problem is that she is widely considered illegitimate and all polling for a year suggests she's unelectable;

Rudd's main problem is that most of the caucus would rather lose government than work under him.

The Prime Minister is unacceptable to the people; the alternative leader is unacceptable to the people who choose the prime minister.

Or, as a Labor Party official put it yesterday: "She'll still be illegitimate and he'll still be a bastard."





rubbish... she was elected in 2010... if she hadnt gone to an election I would agree with you but she did...the fact is it was a hugn vote.. and she was able to look the independents in the eye and make deals knowing full well that if she didnt want to go ahead with them.. she would find a way...


ask Wilkie.. and Slipper...

the thing is do we elect a PM or a Party?????

come on which is it????


the left on here whinge constantly about policies yet you are saying we only vote for the leader and not their policies..
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Emma
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9853
OZ
Gender: female
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #6 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:41pm
 
Totally agree Cods.

The 'cause celebrite' falls before the commonsense of the people.  And the polls ....huh?? Run by media, that are owned by a couple of rich Ozzies.

Because, ministers,...- elected representatives SPEAK for their ELECTORATE.

My belief in the common sense and decency of Australians, as represented by the members who voted today, is happily shored up today. Smiley Smiley
Back to top
 

live every day
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #7 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:51pm
 
Emma wrote on Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:41pm:
Totally agree Cods.

The 'cause celebrite' falls before the commonsense of the people.  And the polls ....huh?? Run by media, that are owned by a couple of rich Ozzies.

Because, ministers,...- elected representatives SPEAK for their ELECTORATE.

My belief in the common sense and decency of Australians, as represented by the members who voted today, is happily shored up today. Smiley Smiley




do you think it will happen though????

seems to me its all about them... got nothing to do with the people or what they like or want..

its more about them hanging on to their jobs..

I mean just under a 3rd of her members dont want her..

she has been there for 18 months now..and I think thats an increase on how many didnt want rudd in June 2010.

so not only are the polls against her.. but also her own members are losing faith in her.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Maqqa
Gold Member
*****
Offline


14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #8 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 9:04pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:14pm:

The repudiation of Rudd reflects three forces.

First, it illustrates the power of the Labor institutional infrastructure of unions and their caucus outgrowth, the factions. Not one trade union supported Rudd.

Second, it shows the visceral personal dislike for Rudd in the caucus. The great bulk of the caucus would rather protect its comfortable working conditions under Gillard than choose a difficult leader more likely to deliver an election win.

Third, it demonstrates a commitment to continue to deliver its existing agenda. Oddly enough, it is largely an agenda drafted by Rudd.

The 40-vote margin compares with a 22-vote margin in Paul Keating’s first and failed strike at Bob Hawke. So Rudd faces a much bigger task to win in any second challenge. It would take a very dramatic shift to move 22 votes.


-Peter Hartcher
Sydney Morning Herald Political Editor



First
Makes you wonder why they didn't. Given Arbib was instrumental in removing Rudd - his resignation and comments makes you wonder if a deal was made between Rudd and Gillard. On a day when Arbib should celebrate - he resigns.

No doubt Rudd is bitter. Perhaps Arbib's resignation was a deal so Rudd would not challenge again. Swan has said Rudd has put his self interest ahead that of the country. So it's conceivable that Arbib took one for the team.


Two
This was evident in the comments from a QLD ALP MP. They would rather lose their seat than go back working with Rudd. At the start of Rudd's term there are plenty of noise coming from his office about his bully boy tactics with many of his staff resigning. The ALP voters thought this was sour grapes. But today's votes shows that he's a sadistic person to work for


Third
That's the irony of it all. It must kill Rudd to sit in the backbench to see them try to deliver his policies. His ego would be killing him


In order to move the 22 votes - he needed to come out before today and say he's changed. Instead he comes out and tell people that he's learnt from his mistakes. This is a double edge answer. it could mean that he knows who stabbed him in the back and won't make that mistake again or he's learnt from his tyrant ways and is prepared to change. Obviously they took his words to mean he will take revenge on them
Back to top
 

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
IP Logged
 
Maqqa
Gold Member
*****
Offline


14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #9 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 9:07pm
 
cods wrote on Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:34pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:24pm:
Cods, this part of the SMH political column puts it in a nutshell.


Gillard's central problem is that she is widely considered illegitimate and all polling for a year suggests she's unelectable;

Rudd's main problem is that most of the caucus would rather lose government than work under him.

The Prime Minister is unacceptable to the people; the alternative leader is unacceptable to the people who choose the prime minister.

Or, as a Labor Party official put it yesterday: "She'll still be illegitimate and he'll still be a bastard."





rubbish... she was elected in 2010... if she hadnt gone to an election I would agree with you but she did...the fact is it was a hugn vote.. and she was able to look the independents in the eye and make deals knowing full well that if she didnt want to go ahead with them.. she would find a way...


ask Wilkie.. and Slipper...

the thing is do we elect a PM or a Party?????

come on which is it????


the left on here whinge constantly about policies yet you are saying we only vote for the leader and not their policies..


But the vote she won was based on the carbon tax lie
Back to top
 

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
IP Logged
 
Emma
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9853
OZ
Gender: female
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #10 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 9:08pm
 
I don't agree Cods.
I think the members that voted for her, The Prime Minister Julia Gillard, know a lot a lot more about who  Rudd and Gillard truly are. 
That the PM garnered more than 70% support can hardly be called a vote indicating a lack of confidence. Smiley
Back to top
 

live every day
 
IP Logged
 
Emma
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9853
OZ
Gender: female
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #11 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 9:11pm
 
get over it Maqqa
Back to top
 

live every day
 
IP Logged
 
blackadder
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1977
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #12 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 9:11pm
 
Emma wrote on Feb 27th, 2012 at 9:08pm:
I don't agree Cods.
I think the members that voted for her, The Prime Minister Julia Gillard, know a lot a lot more about who  Rudd and Gillard truly are. 
That the PM garnered more than 70% support can hardly be called a vote indicating a lack of confidence. Smiley 



I don't know how the Caucus could vote for either of them.
Back to top
 

The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine - Abraham Lincoln
 
IP Logged
 
Armchair_Politician
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 29173
Gender: male
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #13 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 9:13pm
 
cods wrote on Feb 27th, 2012 at 8:18pm:
just what is meant by the will of the people???.

dont tell me a POLL taken from about 1200 people is now whats known as the WILL OF THE PEOPLE..

I hardly think so.. to me the will of the people is at the voting box.. and nowhere else.


I agree - I hardly think the majority of voters out there want to see a return to Rudd the Dudd. He is the reason Labor has so many policy headaches.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Emma
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9853
OZ
Gender: female
Re: Will of the People fails to sway Caucus
Reply #14 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 9:16pm
 
good grief you agree.!!  Good on ya
Back to top
 

live every day
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print