Australian Politics Forum - Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread

Armchair_Politician

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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #45 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:13pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:11pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:10pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 7:41pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 7:36pm:

As such, he would not have been present at any secret briefings on the war. Your argument that he knew as well is patently, blatantly false.

And you know this, because?

I'll answer your question with a question. Why would the Minister for Health (I think that's what he was at the time) be involved in secret briefings regarding the ADF in Iraq? In any case, only the Minister for Defence and probably the Foreign Minister would have had any briefings on the Iraq war. It's just common sense. I can't see the Minister for Education sitting in on a war briefing!

Really? What about Abbott the confidante? Do you think senior ministers are generally frozen out of secret discussions? Isn't that a primary complaint against Rudd by his former senior ministers.

It is called secret for a reason. My God! Shocked

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread Reply #46 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:16pm Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:13pm: It is called secret for a reason. My God! Haven't really met pollies, have you. You're suggesting a senior minister of the crown, and a close personal confidante of the then prime minister, cannot be trusted with confidential information.
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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #47 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:17pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:13pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:11pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:10pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 7:41pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 7:36pm:

As such, he would not have been present at any secret briefings on the war. Your argument that he knew as well is patently, blatantly false.

And you know this, because?

I'll answer your question with a question. Why would the Minister for Health (I think that's what he was at the time) be involved in secret briefings regarding the ADF in Iraq? In any case, only the Minister for Defence and probably the Foreign Minister would have had any briefings on the Iraq war. It's just common sense. I can't see the Minister for Education sitting in on a war briefing!

Really? What about Abbott the confidante? Do you think senior ministers are generally frozen out of secret discussions? Isn't that a primary complaint against Rudd by his former senior ministers.

It is called secret for a reason. My God! Shocked

Secret within cabinet ?

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #48 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:21pm

____ wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:17pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:13pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:11pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:10pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 7:41pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 7:36pm:

As such, he would not have been present at any secret briefings on the war. Your argument that he knew as well is patently, blatantly false.

And you know this, because?

I'll answer your question with a question. Why would the Minister for Health (I think that's what he was at the time) be involved in secret briefings regarding the ADF in Iraq? In any case, only the Minister for Defence and probably the Foreign Minister would have had any briefings on the Iraq war. It's just common sense. I can't see the Minister for Education sitting in on a war briefing!

Really? What about Abbott the confidante? Do you think senior ministers are generally frozen out of secret discussions? Isn't that a primary complaint against Rudd by his former senior ministers.

It is called secret for a reason. My God! Shocked

Secret within cabinet ?

You truly are stupid, aren't you? Briefings on Iraq would have been marked secret and therefore only select members of the cabinet would have attended, such as Defence Minister and perhaps Foreign Minister and possibly the Attorney-General to weigh in on legal advice. Contents of those briefings would not have been discussed with other Ministers, such as the Minister for Climate Change. It's just common sense!

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #49 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:23pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

You truly are stupid, aren't you? Briefings on Iraq would have been marked secret and therefore only select members of the cabinet would have attended, such as Defence Minister and perhaps Foreign Minister and possibly the Attorney-General to weigh in on legal advice. Contents of those briefings would not have been discussed with other Ministers, such as the Minister for Climate Change. It's just common sense!

I like how you make it up as you go along!

You're so sure who was where and who heard what... Have you met pollies?

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #50 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:26pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:23pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

You truly are stupid, aren't you? Briefings on Iraq would have been marked secret and therefore only select members of the cabinet would have attended, such as Defence Minister and perhaps Foreign Minister and possibly the Attorney-General to weigh in on legal advice. Contents of those briefings would not have been discussed with other Ministers, such as the Minister for Climate Change. It's just common sense!

I like how you make it up as you go along!

You're so sure who was where and who heard what... Have you met pollies?

Yep, worked in the office of a Federal MP for a while. Less than enlightening experience, given it was a Labor MP. Also, I wasn't making anything up - it's just pure and simple common sense. Why would Abbott be involved in Defence briefings on Iraq if he was Minister of Health at the time? Answer: he wouldn't have been and would have had no more information on Iraq than you or I. Is that too difficult for a single-cell organism such as yourself to understand?

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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #51 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:28pm

He probably didn't know from official briefings - he would not hasve been involved.

On the special run about the Howard years it was clear than most Liberal ministers hadn't worked out that workchoices hurt people - they were completly oblivious to the actual facts but could sprout the official line by rote.

Even Abbnott with his policy to turn all the boats around was quoted to have said that Howard was able to do it so he could see no problem, Obviously he either forgot or was never aware that Howard stopped doing it after he had directed a turn around where people drowned.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #52 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:32pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:26pm:

Also, I wasn't making anything up - it's just pure and simple common sense. Why would Abbott be involved in Defence briefings on Iraq if he was Minister of Health at the time? Answer: he wouldn't have been and would have had no more information on Iraq than you or I. Is that too difficult for a single-cell organism such as yourself to understand?

You seem to imagine politics is like a predictable geological process... You're under the delusion that no PM speaks to anyone but the ones you imagine he does on certain subjects... because? Who knows? Suits your agenda?

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #53 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:49pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:32pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:26pm:

Also, I wasn't making anything up - it's just pure and simple common sense. Why would Abbott be involved in Defence briefings on Iraq if he was Minister of Health at the time? Answer: he wouldn't have been and would have had no more information on Iraq than you or I. Is that too difficult for a single-cell organism such as yourself to understand?

You seem to imagine politics is like a predictable geological process... You're under the delusion that no PM speaks to anyone but the ones you imagine he does on certain subjects... because? Who knows? Suits your agenda?

Never worked in government, have you? Confidentiality actually has meaning in government, you know? I doubt any responsible PM would talk about secret matters to those who have no right/reason to know about them. One of my uncle's was a high-ranking officer in the RAAF prior to retiring. He is still unable to talk about aspects of his work and to do so would leave him open to criminal charges. Get my drift now?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #54 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:56pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:49pm:

Never worked in government, have you? Confidentiality actually has meaning in government, you know? I doubt any responsible PM would talk about secret matters to those who have no right/reason to know about them. One of my uncle's was a high-ranking officer in the RAAF prior to retiring. He is still unable to talk about aspects of his work and to do so would leave him open to criminal charges. Get my drift now?

Certainly have worked with government... What you're saying is that no authorised personnel may talk to anybody about anything they like. which is true.

But we're not talking about anybody talking to anyone... We're talking about a PM talking to a senior minister who is also a close personal confidante... Or do you imagine Abbott would dob Howard in?

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #55 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:59pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:56pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:49pm:

Never worked in government, have you? Confidentiality actually has meaning in government, you know? I doubt any responsible PM would talk about secret matters to those who have no right/reason to know about them. One of my uncle's was a high-ranking officer in the RAAF prior to retiring. He is still unable to talk about aspects of his work and to do so would leave him open to criminal charges. Get my drift now?

Certainly have worked with government... What you're saying is that no authorised personnel may talk to anybody about anything they like. which is true.

But we're not talking about anybody talking to anyone... We're talking about a PM talking to a senior minister who is also a close personal confidante... Or do you imagine Abbott would dob Howard in?

If Howard talked to Tony Abbott about something he had no clearance to be privy to, then Howard is in the wrong. Having said that, I can't see Howard doing that - he and Abbott were never that close.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #56 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 9:03pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:59pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:56pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:49pm:

Never worked in government, have you? Confidentiality actually has meaning in government, you know? I doubt any responsible PM would talk about secret matters to those who have no right/reason to know about them. One of my uncle's was a high-ranking officer in the RAAF prior to retiring. He is still unable to talk about aspects of his work and to do so would leave him open to criminal charges. Get my drift now?

Certainly have worked with government... What you're saying is that no authorised personnel may talk to anybody about anything they like. which is true.

But we're not talking about anybody talking to anyone... We're talking about a PM talking to a senior minister who is also a close personal confidante... Or do you imagine Abbott would dob Howard in?

If Howard talked to Tony Abbott about something he had no clearance to be privy to, then Howard is in the wrong.

Course there'd be the problem of proving it.

Senior politicians certainly usher senior public servants out of the room when discussing secret cabinet business during a conversation with them... But within cabinet they are much more collegial and trust each other well enough with confidential information.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #57 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 9:05pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 9:03pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:59pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:56pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 8:49pm:

Never worked in government, have you? Confidentiality actually has meaning in government, you know? I doubt any responsible PM would talk about secret matters to those who have no right/reason to know about them. One of my uncle's was a high-ranking officer in the RAAF prior to retiring. He is still unable to talk about aspects of his work and to do so would leave him open to criminal charges. Get my drift now?

Certainly have worked with government... What you're saying is that no authorised personnel may talk to anybody about anything they like. which is true.

But we're not talking about anybody talking to anyone... We're talking about a PM talking to a senior minister who is also a close personal confidante... Or do you imagine Abbott would dob Howard in?

If Howard talked to Tony Abbott about something he had no clearance to be privy to, then Howard is in the wrong.

Course there'd be the problem of proving it.

Senior politicians certainly usher senior public servants out of the room when discussing secret cabinet business during a conversation with them... But within cabinet they are much more collegial and trust each other well enough with confidential information.

If that was indeed the case, we may never know. So those who insinuated that Abbott knew more about Iraq than he let on are basing their accusation on thoughts as flimsy as wet paper.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread Reply #58 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 9:06pm Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 9:05pm: So those who insinuated that Abbott knew more about Iraq than he let on are basing their accusation on thoughts as flimsy as wet paper. As are you.
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Re: Abbott's Unanswered Questions Thread
Reply #59 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 9:38pm

A.P, next you will be trying to spin than no Lib ministers noticed all the paperwork that past over their desks concerning the wheat for weapons scandal ... and no discussions took place around Abbott.

Go on, pretend you were there and can say with certainty it couldn't of happened because you are an Abbott sycophant.

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