Australian Politics Forum - How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?

philperth2010 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21097 Perth Gender:	Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this? Reply #45 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 12:33am If the Liberal Party had won the 2007 election we would already have an ETS.....How do the faithful justify their back flip???
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longweekend58

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #46 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 7:32am

Quote:

The sea ice capping the Arctic Ocean is melting away much faster and in more critical areas than initially predicted, and could dissolve entirely into tepid water earlier than 2100, a group of scientists said today.

so now its 2100, is it? it was originally expected do disappear in 2008 then 2009 and then 2010 and you get the picture. now they've given up and made an unprovable prediction outside the lifespan of our grandchildren. and conveniently they STILL dont take into consideration the worlds largest active volcano directly beneath the arctic. think that might have something to do with local melting?

Meanwhil back in antarctica, ice volumes are remaining static. how Inconvenient.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #47 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:05am

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 12:33am:

If the Liberal Party had won the 2007 election we would already have an ETS.....How do the faithful justify their back flip???

Easy. An ETS was a Howard "non-core" policy. They only talked it up before the election because Rudd was making them look old and indecisive.

They can justify the backflip, because a backflip was secret internal policy.

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progressiveslol

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #48 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:10am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:05am:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 12:33am:

If the Liberal Party had won the 2007 election we would already have an ETS.....How do the faithful justify their back flip???

Easy. An ETS was a Howard "non-core" policy. They only talked it up before the election because Rudd was making them look old and indecisive.

They can justify the backflip, because a backflip was secret internal policy.

Oh the good old what ifs that never were. Too bad hey. The country nearly got suckered by the church of climatology. Then we get the actual suckers (not what the Australian people wanted nor were promised) give us a carbon tax.

Not even the dumby American are as dumb as labor. and the greens.

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« Last Edit: Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:46am by progressiveslol »

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longweekend58

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #49 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:11am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:05am:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 12:33am:

If the Liberal Party had won the 2007 election we would already have an ETS.....How do the faithful justify their back flip???

Easy. An ETS was a Howard "non-core" policy. They only talked it up before the election because Rudd was making them look old and indecisive.

They can justify the backflip, because a backflip was secret internal policy.

do you really think that as an ALP supporter you ahve any place talking about election promise breaches? Gillard-the-Liar has broken any and all that she fins inconvenient.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #50 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:30am

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:11am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:05am:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 12:33am:

If the Liberal Party had won the 2007 election we would already have an ETS.....How do the faithful justify their back flip???

Easy. An ETS was a Howard "non-core" policy. They only talked it up before the election because Rudd was making them look old and indecisive.

They can justify the backflip, because a backflip was secret internal policy.

do you really think that as an ALP supporter you ahve any place talking about election promise breaches? Gillard-the-Liar has broken any and all that she fins inconvenient.

mate, I'm not ALP supporter.

And I strongly believe that both sides lie through their teeth. John Howard was called "Honest John" as sarcastic nickname. He had core and non-core promises. this is all public record.
Rudd backfliped on the ETS. Gillard backflipped on the carbon tax, and pokies. OFarrell backflip on solar, and shooting in NP. Abbott is known as the "weathervane" because he flip flops on so many issues.

They are all liars. But ask yourself, are lies always a bad thing. I certainly dont want politicians to be locked into a position they had 10 years ago. There needs to be some latitude for re-assessing a position based on changed circumstances, as everyone encounters in day to day life.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #51 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:32am

progressiveslol wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:10am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:05am:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 12:33am:

If the Liberal Party had won the 2007 election we would already have an ETS.....How do the faithful justify their back flip???

Easy. An ETS was a Howard "non-core" policy. They only talked it up before the election because Rudd was making them look old and indecisive.

They can justify the backflip, because a backflip was secret internal policy.

Oh the good old what ifs that never were.

So you think Howard would have brought in an ETS if he'd won (and held his seat) in 2007 ?

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longweekend58

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #52 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:38am

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John Howard was called "Honest John" as sarcastic nickname

at least get your facts right. his nickname Honest John was given to him in reference to his actual honesty. you dont have to like it or even agree with it but you DONT get to reinterpret historical fact. that nickname actually preceded him becoming PM as well.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #53 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:41am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:30am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:11am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 8:05am:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 12:33am:

If the Liberal Party had won the 2007 election we would already have an ETS.....How do the faithful justify their back flip???

Easy. An ETS was a Howard "non-core" policy. They only talked it up before the election because Rudd was making them look old and indecisive.

They can justify the backflip, because a backflip was secret internal policy.

do you really think that as an ALP supporter you ahve any place talking about election promise breaches? Gillard-the-Liar has broken any and all that she fins inconvenient.

mate, I'm not ALP supporter.

And I strongly believe that both sides lie through their teeth. John Howard was called "Honest John" as sarcastic nickname. He had core and non-core promises. this is all public record.
Rudd backfliped on the ETS. Gillard backflipped on the carbon tax, and pokies. OFarrell backflip on solar, and shooting in NP. Abbott is known as the "weathervane" because he flip flops on so many issues.

They are all liars. But ask yourself, are lies always a bad thing. I certainly dont want politicians to be locked into a position they had 10 years ago. There needs to be some latitude for re-assessing a position based on changed circumstances, as everyone encounters in day to day life.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT and refreshingly so! Howards reassessmen of his position on the GST occured years apart. it was a CHANGE of heart. Gillards change over the carbon tax occured in under a week. and it wasnt a change of heart or opinion. it was nothing more than a cynical grab for power - the worst possible reason to renege on a promise.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #54 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:54am

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:38am:

Quote:

John Howard was called "Honest John" as sarcastic nickname

at least get your facts right. his nickname Honest John was given to him in reference to his actual honesty.

Absolute BS. You are trying to re-write history there.

...the name "Honest John" was bestowed on him ironically by none other than Paul Keating, in the late 70's after Howard as treasurer promised his "fist full of dollars" tax cuts and did not deliver after the election.

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« Last Edit: Feb 21^st, 2012 at 11:02am by Doctor Jolly »

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #55 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 11:00am

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:41am:

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT and refreshingly so! Howards reassessmen of his position on the GST occured years apart. it was a CHANGE of heart. Gillards change over the carbon tax occured in under a week. and it wasnt a change of heart or opinion. it was nothing more than a cynical grab for power - the worst possible reason to renege on a promise.

In your blinkered view. A "change of heart" is not what I would call changed circumstances or new data. Thats flip-flopping.

On the other hand, Gillard told a lie about the carbon tax. No question. It was also contradictory to her party's own policy of pricing carbon. You could tell it was a lie as soon as she said it, before the election. Stupid, school girl error. No question. And she probably could have kept it the truth if labor won power outright.

But in a coallition with the greens, carbon tax/pricing was a must have. Thats a major changing or circumstances over that week, and a fair call too.

Harping on about the carbon tax lie is just playing party politics. As lies go, it turned out for the best.

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progressiveslol

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #56 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 11:09am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 11:00am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:41am:

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT and refreshingly so! Howards reassessmen of his position on the GST occured years apart. it was a CHANGE of heart. Gillards change over the carbon tax occured in under a week. and it wasnt a change of heart or opinion. it was nothing more than a cynical grab for power - the worst possible reason to renege on a promise.

In your blinkered view. A "change of heart" is not what I would call changed circumstances or new data. Thats flip-flopping.

On the other hand, Gillard told a lie about the carbon tax. No question. It was also contradictory to her party's own policy of pricing carbon. You could tell it was a lie as soon as she said it, before the election. Stupid, school girl error. No question. And she probably could have kept it the truth if labor won power outright.

But in a coallition with the greens, carbon tax/pricing was a must have. Thats a major changing or circumstances over that week, and a fair call too.

Harping on about the carbon tax lie is just playing party politics. As lies go, it turned out for the best.

As lies go, it turned out to be the biggest and will be the end of labor.

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darkhall67

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #57 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 11:23am

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:38am:

Quote:

John Howard was called "Honest John" as sarcastic nickname

at least get your facts right. his nickname Honest John was given to him in reference to his actual honesty. you dont have to like it or even agree with it but you DONT get to reinterpret historical fact. that nickname actually preceded him becoming PM as well.

That's a load of balsa.

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longweekend58

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #58 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 11:36am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:54am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:38am:

Quote:

John Howard was called "Honest John" as sarcastic nickname

at least get your facts right. his nickname Honest John was given to him in reference to his actual honesty.

Absolute BS. You are trying to re-write history there.

...the name "Honest John" was bestowed on him ironically by none other than Paul Keating, in the late 70's after Howard as treasurer promised his "fist full of dollars" tax cuts and did not deliver after the election.

which IRONICALLY was then adopted by media and the people in general as an ACCURATE estimation of the man. He continues to be considered by the bulk of the population as essentially honest. The term Honest John was a term used by most for exactly what it says.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: How do gw believers like Flannery, defend this?
Reply #59 - Feb 21^st, 2012 at 11:38am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 11:00am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 10:41am:

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT and refreshingly so! Howards reassessmen of his position on the GST occured years apart. it was a CHANGE of heart. Gillards change over the carbon tax occured in under a week. and it wasnt a change of heart or opinion. it was nothing more than a cynical grab for power - the worst possible reason to renege on a promise.

In your blinkered view. A "change of heart" is not what I would call changed circumstances or new data. Thats flip-flopping.

On the other hand, Gillard told a lie about the carbon tax. No question. It was also contradictory to her party's own policy of pricing carbon. You could tell it was a lie as soon as she said it, before the election. Stupid, school girl error. No question. And she probably could have kept it the truth if labor won power outright.

But in a coallition with the greens, carbon tax/pricing was a must have. Thats a major changing or circumstances over that week, and a fair call too.

Harping on about the carbon tax lie is just playing party politics. As lies go, it turned out for the best.

i thought there just for a minute you were going to turn into a rational non-partisan poster. alas, I was mistaken. a 'change of mind' in 4 days is ok but a change of policy over 4 years is not. you say you want pollies to be free to change their minds etc but apparently only when it suits you.

disappointed...

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