Australian Politics Forum - The decision Rudd lived to regret

cods

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #15 - Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:31pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

[quote]and the main reason for this drop - a hated carbon tax

I disagree, it was the complete betrayal of the electorate with what the article states, the shevling of the greatest moral challenge of our time.
So the issue of Carbon is the reason NOT because it's been introduced but because it was originally shelved.[/quote]

if that was soooooo...then why did Abbott score so well... he was obviously dead set against any ETS..

smithy hate to say this but I reckon a lot of GW believers are now looking at the BIGGER picture..they are changing their minds....not you of course and woody..but who the hell are you?? two votes..

if it was the case gillard would have gotton no votes as it came out during the election that she was behind Rudd giving up on the ETS

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Dsmithy70

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #16 - Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:45pm

cods wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:31pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

[quote]and the main reason for this drop - a hated carbon tax

I disagree, it was the complete betrayal of the electorate with what the article states, the shevling of the greatest moral challenge of our time.
So the issue of Carbon is the reason NOT because it's been introduced but because it was originally shelved.[/quote]

if that was soooooo...then why did Abbott score so well... he was obviously dead set against any ETS..

smithy hate to say this but I reckon a lot of GW believers are now looking at the BIGGER picture..they are changing their minds....not you of course and woody..but who the hell are you?? two votes..

if it was the case gillard would have gotton no votes as it came out during the election that she was behind Rudd giving up on the ETS

If Abbott had been taken to the DD Rudd squibed he would have lost.

I like most have given up any hope of us getting our crap together and doing something before its too late.
I will point out Abbott supports the targets and intends to achieve them thru his direct action plan.
The difference is most are too stupid to realise the money he intends to use is tax dollars, and BTW uncapped, so god knows how much we as tax payers will end up forking out.
But mr i don't follow politics doesn't realise he still will be paying and thinks its free.
The carbon tax might not be the best option but it is the option that makes those responsible pay and give mr average some choice on how much he pays.

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longweekend58

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #17 - Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:57pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Quote:

and the main reason for this drop - a hated carbon tax

I disagree, it was the complete betrayal of the electorate with what the article states, the shevling of the greatest moral challenge of our time.
So the issue of Carbon is the reason NOT because it's been introduced but because it was originally shelved.

thats too overly complex. its quit simple. she promised something and broke that promise without even breaking a sweat. and has now done it repeatedly. the woman is a liar and even her own party says she has an 'integrity problem'.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Gist

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #18 - Feb 4^th, 2012 at 7:03pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

I like most have given up any hope of us getting our crap together and doing something before its too late.
I will point out Abbott supports the targets and intends to achieve them thru his direct action plan.
The difference is most are too stupid to realise the money he intends to use is tax dollars, and BTW uncapped, so god knows how much we as tax payers will end up forking out.
But mr i don't follow politics doesn't realise he still will be paying and thinks its free.
The carbon tax might not be the best option but it is the option that makes those responsible pay and give mr average some choice on how much he pays.

Yes. Dumb Tony will take our money and give it to the polluters so they can "find a solution". I can tell you what their solution will be - they'll organise bean counters like Andrei to make the money disappear without even touching the sides.

Speaking of which....

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:03pm:

It may have missed your notice - but the Labor Party in Australia are about as popular as a case of herpes right now with the people.

Consistently polling 30%.

For a bean counter, you're not very good with numbers are you? Lastest polls are around 46% on 2PP and they've been there for months.

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longweekend58

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #19 - Feb 4^th, 2012 at 8:22pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

cods wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:31pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

[quote]and the main reason for this drop - a hated carbon tax

I disagree, it was the complete betrayal of the electorate with what the article states, the shevling of the greatest moral challenge of our time.
So the issue of Carbon is the reason NOT because it's been introduced but because it was originally shelved.[/quote]

if that was soooooo...then why did Abbott score so well... he was obviously dead set against any ETS..

smithy hate to say this but I reckon a lot of GW believers are now looking at the BIGGER picture..they are changing their minds....not you of course and woody..but who the hell are you?? two votes..

if it was the case gillard would have gotton no votes as it came out during the election that she was behind Rudd giving up on the ETS

If Abbott had been taken to the DD Rudd squibed he would have lost.

I like most have given up any hope of us getting our crap together and doing something before its too late.
I will point out Abbott supports the targets and intends to achieve them thru his direct action plan.
The difference is most are too stupid to realise the money he intends to use is tax dollars, and BTW uncapped, so god knows how much we as tax payers will end up forking out.
But mr i don't follow politics doesn't realise he still will be paying and thinks its free.
The carbon tax might not be the best option but it is the option that makes those responsible pay and give mr average some choice on how much he pays.

except of course the carbon tax has zero chance of working even in the slightest - just as the european ETS has failed.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Maqqa

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #20 - Feb 4^th, 2012 at 11:20pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

If Abbott had been taken to the DD Rudd squibed he would have lost.

I like most have given up any hope of us getting our crap together and doing something before its too late.
I will point out Abbott supports the targets and intends to achieve them thru his direct action plan.
The difference is most are too stupid to realise the money he intends to use is tax dollars, and BTW uncapped, so god knows how much we as tax payers will end up forking out.
But mr i don't follow politics doesn't realise he still will be paying and thinks its free.
The carbon tax might not be the best option but it is the option that makes those responsible pay and give mr average some choice on how much he pays.

Too late for what?

It's called GLOBAL warming ie not isolated to just Australia

With Australia emitting just 1.35% of total carbon emission - there's nothing that Australia does that will guarantee lowering of GLOBAL temperature

So this comes back to why Gillard is implementing the carbon tax - it's because we RATIFIED KYOTO and created a penalty that Australia MUST PAY

Unless of course we can meet those useless targets.

The direct action plan will help reduce the penalties

So all actions taken by the Coalition is limiting the damage caused by Rudd and Gillard

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #21 - Feb 5^th, 2012 at 6:40am

I doubt Rudd would still be PM even if he'd gone to an early election. He was/is a control freak and plainly incompetent. Most (if not all) of Labor's current problems - such as border protection - are due to Rudd's term as PM. That there are any people who want this imbecile back shows just how stupid some people really are.

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Dnarever

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #22 - Feb 5^th, 2012 at 7:24am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:18pm:

That is totally my view.

This carbon tax will increase cost of living.

In an opinion poll over 70% thought their cost of living would increase as a result.

Put two and two together, people don't want it.

The Abbott direct action plan would deliver less at a higher cost and have a greater impact on cost of living.

Just a few months before the election Mr Abbott was suggesting a carbon tax as the best option. The Gillard carbon tax is one where nobody actually pays any additional tax. Abbotts plan was to directly tax us all in order to compensate those who produce carbon dioxide emissions. i.e. The Abbott carbon tax was going to be a real one also with a greater impact on the cost of living.

The current plan is the one which should produce the best results for the lowest cost of living increase.

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longweekend58

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #23 - Feb 5^th, 2012 at 7:30am

Dnarever wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 7:24am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 6:18pm:

That is totally my view.

This carbon tax will increase cost of living.

In an opinion poll over 70% thought their cost of living would increase as a result.

Put two and two together, people don't want it.

The Abbott direct action plan would deliver less at a higher cost and have a greater impact on cost of living.

Just a few months before the election Mr Abbott was suggesting a carbon tax as the best option. The Gillard carbon tax is one where nobody actually pays any additional tax. Abbotts plan was to directly tax us all in order to compensate those who produce carbon dioxide emissions. i.e. The Abbott carbon tax was going to be a real one also with a greater impact on the cost of living.

The current plan is the one which should produce the best results for the lowest cost of living increase.

you just dont get it, do you? the vast majority of the strong opposition to the carbon tax is because she promised NOT to have one and then immediately turned around and gave us one. This tax is a rallying point for people sick of Gillard repeated lies and breaking of promises. her term as PM is replete with them and even begun with her promise to support Rudd and then knifing him in the back 24 hrs later.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dnarever

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #24 - Feb 5^th, 2012 at 7:41am

Maqqa wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 11:13am:

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/groping-for-leadership-in-an-hour-of-d...

HAS there been a bigger lost opportunity in modern Australian politics than Kevin Rudd's decision not to go to an election in early 2010? Rudd and his government were still popular back then and could have expected to win that election, which would have been fought over the Coalition's abandonment of an emissions trading scheme under its new leader, Tony Abbott.

Importantly, the ALP would have almost certainly won a second term in its own right. There is every likelihood that Rudd would still be prime minister and the whole nightmare of the past two years would have been avoided. From Rudd's failure to call that early election, the whole sorry tale of federal Labor in 2010, 2011 and these first few weeks of 2012 flows.

Stating the obvious?

Maqqa wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 11:13am:

Some Labor supporters have complained about the media's treatment of Gillard and the leadership issue this week, saying it is a chimera dreamed up by mischievous, irresponsible journalists and editors.

They could well be right about Gillard getting rougher-than-usual media treatment during her time as prime minister. But the same could be said about the media's portrayal of Rudd as PM,. something from which she personally prospered with apparently little or no compunction, realising her life's ambition to become prime minister.

So The media bias is OK because it was given equally to Rudd, Anyone miss the point that the media bias has been aimed against Labor and any Leader would do as a target.

Maqqa wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 11:13am:

They speak of two things: Gillard's performance - really, shorthand for her judgment - and what their electors say about the Prime Minister. On the latter, what the MPs report back is scathing. The general feedback from voters is that they believe Gillard is void of policy credibility, or a genuine belief system, and that she ranks low on personal integrity.

and what their electors say about the Prime Minister.

Straight back to the media driven view that the Liberals and Media have been relentlessly pushing based on one or two incidents which would pale into insignificance compared to the Howard years where there was virtually no negative media comment and certainly no persistent follow up day after day - month after month.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret Reply #25 - Feb 5^th, 2012 at 8:22am It's easier to blame the media and the Opposition for 12 months of bad opinion polls than to accept the reality that she's a bad PM
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Dnarever

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #26 - Feb 5^th, 2012 at 8:26am

Maqqa wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 8:22am:

It's easier to blame the media and the Opposition for 12 months of bad opinion polls than to accept the reality that she's a bad PM

Well maybe if they were not regurgitating over 50 negative articles a week for the entire period their would not be the realistic argument that it was the major influence on the polls.

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progressiveslol

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #27 - Feb 5^th, 2012 at 8:28am

Dnarever wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 8:26am:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 8:22am:

It's easier to blame the media and the Opposition for 12 months of bad opinion polls than to accept the reality that she's a bad PM

Well maybe if they were not regurgitating over 50 negative articles a week for the entire period their would not be the realistic argument that it was the major influence on the polls.

Maybe it is because labor are that bad, they cant even fix their own stuffups without stuffing up the fix.

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Dnarever

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #28 - Feb 5^th, 2012 at 8:36am

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 7:30am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 7:24am:

The Abbott direct action plan would deliver less at a higher cost and have a greater impact on cost of living.

Just a few months before the election Mr Abbott was suggesting a carbon tax as the best option. The Gillard carbon tax is one where nobody actually pays any additional tax. Abbotts plan was to directly tax us all in order to compensate those who produce carbon dioxide emissions. i.e. The Abbott carbon tax was going to be a real one also with a greater impact on the cost of living.

The current plan is the one which should produce the best results for the lowest cost of living increase.

you just dont get it, do you? the vast majority of the strong opposition to the carbon tax is because she promised NOT to have one and then immediately turned around and gave us one.

Its a point which during the Howard government would have been lucky to have got one mention in the media where in this case it is repeated multi times each day every day since the 2010 election.

The vast majority with the strong opinion is clearly media driven hype.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 7:30am:

This tax is a rallying point for people sick of Gillard repeated lies and breaking of promises.

Yet it previously took 12 years for them to be sick of a substantially less honest government.

Howard never got the dishonest media treatment which this government have experienced in fact it was the opposite - they minimised reporting on significant failures.

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Dnarever

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Re: The decision Rudd lived to regret
Reply #29 - Feb 5^th, 2012 at 8:42am

progressiveslol wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 8:28am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 8:26am:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 8:22am:

It's easier to blame the media and the Opposition for 12 months of bad opinion polls than to accept the reality that she's a bad PM

Well maybe if they were not regurgitating over 50 negative articles a week for the entire period their would not be the realistic argument that it was the major influence on the polls.

Maybe it is because labor are that bad, they cant even fix their own stuffups without stuffing up the fix.

They have made errors and clearly deserved critisism this is not what has been going on everything is spun into an anti Labor article and its done every day.

Its clearly the media deliberatly taking a political stance with no balance or hold on reality - much of what is printed does not fall short of being pure political propoganda.

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