Australian Politics Forum - Two Types of Envy

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10300
Gender: male

Two Types of Envy
Jan 27^th, 2012 at 3:50pm

Two types of envy.

Bad envy: The coveting and hatred that others possess something they desire. It is perceived as an injustice that others possess more or better possessions, skills, or money than they. There are appeals to some kind of higher moral principle that there ought to be an equal sharing of possessions, skills, and money, and in some cases, the successful man be stripped of his possessions and then punished. This type of envy is often found amongst the Leftist political classes and is more than willing to use the executive branch of government to get their way.

Good envy: The admiration and reverence for the possessions, skills, or money of others. It is perceived as a sign of personal growth and excellence that the skillful man has achieved what he has. The good envious man wishes that he too possess what the skillful man has, but with one major difference: Honest competition that is based on reverence not hate. This type of envy is often found amongst sportsmen, musicians and sometimes writers; they will engage in harsh self-discipline to enhance their own skills to achieve what others have.

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Two Types of Envy Reply #1 - Jan 27^th, 2012 at 8:43pm There is no 'good envy'. It is called inspiration. It takes nothing away. Bad envy - the only envy there is - is all about confiscation. There is none of that in inspiration.
Back to top	IP Logged

nairbe Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2587 Rural NSW Gender:	Re: Two Types of Envy Reply #2 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 3:53pm Soren wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 8:43pm: There is no 'good envy'. It is called inspiration. It takes nothing away. Bad envy - the only envy there is - is all about confiscation. There is none of that in inspiration. Correct
Back to top	"Faced with what is right, to leave it undone shows a lack of courage." Confucius IP Logged

Big Donger

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 102857

Re: Two Types of Envy
Reply #3 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 4:04pm

Soren wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 8:43pm:

There is no 'good envy'.

Bourgeouse thinking, as usual. The faculty aims to propagate a healthy envy in the tinted classes - healthy because it will facilitate our historically ordained task of siezing the means of production (stage one).

As the vangard of the Pakistani proletariat, we will then channel these emotions after the revolution into more productive ends (stage two).

When the tinted races are deemed ready, and when the white imperialist classes are erased from history, our beneign stewardship will ease, and the tinted classes wll be completely emancipated (stage three).

See Karnal et al. The conditions of tinted class struggle and the stages of history in Journal of Pakistani Studies, Autumn ed., August 2009 [P. 22-48].

Back to top

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10300 Gender:	Re: Two Types of Envy Reply #4 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 8:50am Soren wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 8:43pm: There is no 'good envy'. It is called inspiration. It takes nothing away. Bad envy - the only envy there is - is all about confiscation. There is none of that in inspiration. Inspiration doesn't encapsulate the notion of competition.
Back to top	IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Two Types of Envy
Reply #5 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 9:35am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 8:50am:

Soren wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 8:43pm:

There is no 'good envy'. It is called inspiration. It takes nothing away.

Bad envy - the only envy there is - is all about confiscation. There is none of that in inspiration.

Inspiration doesn't encapsulate the notion of competition.

Sure it does. You are not inspired by your father, for instance, to be in his shadow all your life, to be second to him but to surpass him. Which is, not coincidentally, why he would want to inspire you. Same with you and your children.

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Two Types of Envy
Reply #6 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 4:04pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 8:50am:

Soren wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 8:43pm:

There is no 'good envy'. It is called inspiration. It takes nothing away.

Bad envy - the only envy there is - is all about confiscation. There is none of that in inspiration.

Inspiration doesn't encapsulate the notion of competition.

I'd add the word "necessarily" and you'd be right. There is a good envy. You hear it at barbecues, said with a smile.

"Good on you. You've got it all, mate. I wish I had your ...talent, patience (or whatever)"

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10300
Gender: male

Re: Two Types of Envy
Reply #7 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 4:12pm

muso wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 4:04pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 8:50am:

Soren wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 8:43pm:

There is no 'good envy'. It is called inspiration. It takes nothing away.

Bad envy - the only envy there is - is all about confiscation. There is none of that in inspiration.

Inspiration doesn't encapsulate the notion of competition.

I'd add the word "necessarily" and you'd be right. There is a good envy. You hear it at barbecues, said with a smile.

"Good on you. You've got it all, mate. I wish I had your ...talent, patience (or whatever)"

Yeah, that's close to what I was trying to articulate.

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Two Types of Envy Reply #8 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 9:08pm Trying anything - cooking a bbq, even - already includes a sense of where excellence is, where failure is, where competence is. Not wanting to fail is already a competition. You want to be better than the people who had failed before you.
Back to top	IP Logged

Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Posts: 7062 Gender:	Re: Two Types of Envy Reply #9 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 9:24pm Soren wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 9:08pm: Not wanting to fail is already a competition. You want to be better than the people who had failed before you. What about better than those who have succeeded?
Back to top	IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Two Types of Envy
Reply #10 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 9:31pm

Well, most of us recognise our limitations. But the question was whether it is possible to be inspired and not have a sense of competition.
I say no, inspiration, being a spur, is a form of competition - but not an envy, as envy wants, apart from anything else, take away, dimish what it envies. Inspiration doesn't want to take away, yet it want to excel.
That's where we are at. What do you think?

Back to top

IP Logged

Annie Anthrax

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 7062
Gender: female

Re: Two Types of Envy
Reply #11 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 9:55pm

I'm scared to say, but I will anyway. Just remember before you shoot me down that although I am interested in discussions like this, I am new to them and I haven't given them a lot of consideration. Yet. I need to read more.

Ok.

I don't think envy is ever good - not just because it diminishes what it envies as you say, but because it diminishes the envious person in their own mind - it makes the envious person feel that they are lacking. It's self harming to be envious, is what I mean.

I haven't answered your question properly but I'm still struggling with envy. I'll deal with inspiration next.

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Two Types of Envy
Reply #12 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 9:59pm

Less of the self-flagellation sauce, my chit, you are on the money.

I mean to say, you are right. Envy diminishes the envious in a way that inspiration doesn't diminish the one who inspires, even when he is surpassed by the ones he has inspired (his whole purpose all along, of course. What would be the point of inspiring if on expected all to fall short? That would be forward envy, so to speak).

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Two Types of Envy
Reply #13 - Jan 31^st, 2012 at 3:48pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 9:55pm:

I haven't answered your question properly but I'm still struggling with envy. I'll deal with inspiration next.

Careful. He might think you mean you're envious of him. Grin

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 9:24pm:

What about better than those who have succeeded?

What about half as good as those who have succeeded? I play keyboard, but I went to a David Helfgott concert a long time ago, and I remember wishing I could play half as well as he could. I was envious of his playing skills, but I wasn't envious of him as a person. In fact I was a bit embarrassed for him when he came out into the foyer and started kissing everybody in sight (both male and female). At the same time, I felt that he could get away with his eccentricities because of his brilliance as a performer.

I think that was a mixture of envy and inspiration. I don't think you can always separate the two. There was certainly no jealousy.

Envy can be a positive thing the way I've heard it being used. Now jealousy is a different matter, (that green eyed monster which doth mock the meat it feeds on) but it may come down to the way that I've heard words being used in common parlance.

Jealousy usually relates to personal possession and competition with a rival. With envy, those attributes are not present.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2012 at 4:09pm by muso »

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Big Donger Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 102857	Re: Two Types of Envy Reply #14 - Jan 31^st, 2012 at 5:32pm As a devout Pakistani, I often feel jealous of the Kazaks, Turkmens, even the Tajkiks. Some of them have the latest Russian jeeps, rocket launchers and many more sheep than we have. Still, we will always have the Amerikans.
Back to top	IP Logged