Australian Politics Forum - Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22083
A cat with a view

Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'
Reply #30 - Jan 27^th, 2012 at 12:10pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 12:01pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 12:53am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2012 at 9:17pm:

Just because Muslims get all confused about the difference does not mean that there is no difference. Islam applies the same punishment to apostasy and treason. This does not mean that apostasy is treason. It is just a convenient excuse for you when people point out how backwards Islam is.

Islam views humans in terms of their millah,

which is in effect their "nation", even if they reside within the one state. Treason can definitely be carried out against one's millah.

You're just trying to enforce your own personal view about treason, nation etc. onto the discussion.

Abu,

The word 'millah' ???

The word 'millah' can mean/refer to, one's 'philosophy of life' ?

Correct?

see...

The distinction between the terms millah & dîn [deen]
e.g.
Allah say: “And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians, until you follow their religion (millah).” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 120]

http://en.islamtoday.net/node/634

Google;
millah meaning, islam

So do moslems [themselves] have a philosophy of life, where if a person does 'recognise' the authority of ISLAM, then that person has no rights, and no protection in law, within a Sharia jurisdiction ?

i.e.
Irrespective of the actual morality of that person [i.e. a person who does 'recognise' the authority of ISLAM] ?

So that in 'recognising' or assessing, any person's 'millah', their degree of respect for ISLAM is everything ?

Abu,

Isn't it true that any person who rejects ISLAM's authority [over every aspect of their life], is [effectively, as far as devout moslems are concerned] self declaring as a 'harbi' ?

Harbi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbi

Google;
harbi, "A harbi has no rights, not even the right to live."

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam' Reply #31 - Jan 27^th, 2012 at 3:41pm Why don't you tell me Yadda. You are clearly someone who rejects God, so do you harbour intentions of war against Muslims? Should Muslims class you as a "harbi"?
Back to top	IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22083
A cat with a view

Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'
Reply #32 - Jan 27^th, 2012 at 4:03pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 3:41pm:

Why don't you tell me Yadda. You are clearly someone who rejects God, so do you harbour intentions of war against Muslims? Should Muslims class you as a "harbi"?

Moslems believe this philosophy......

That moslems, and only moslems, are beloved of God.

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

I believe this philosophy......

Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Which is a philosophy which is supported in the OT....

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

Deuteronomy 1:17
Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger:
for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

2 Chronicles 19:7
Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.

Psalms 138:6
Though the LORD be high, yet hath he respect unto the lowly: but the proud he knoweth afar off.

Proverbs 28:21
To have respect of persons is not good: for for a piece of bread that man will transgress.

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'
Reply #33 - Jan 27^th, 2012 at 5:41pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 12:50am:

Soren wrote on Jan 26^th, 2012 at 8:48pm:

Where are the national borders of islam?

Who is the head of state? What's the currency? Who issues the passports?

It has no borders as I'm sure you're aware, just ever-expanding limits of influence that will one day engulf all Grin

Head of state is currently a vacant position, but we are conducting interviews. Currency is the gold dinar, out of mint at the moment.

So a fantasy, then.

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49963 At my desk.	Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam' Reply #34 - Jan 27^th, 2012 at 6:34pm It is a fantasy that Abu would like to stone people to death for rejecting.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 19188
Gender: male

Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'
Reply #35 - Jan 27^th, 2012 at 8:17pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 26^th, 2012 at 2:07pm:

When someone becomes a citizen of America, do you think they wonder what will happen if they betray America?
It carries the death penalty as well.

Unlike your flippant faith, Islam is a rock solid belief system, those who enter it usually do so with very firm conviction in its truthfulness. That's why it does not bother us what the penalty is for committing treason against it, since we have no intention to do so.

To simplify this could we say-
Apostasy is a thought crime which is a very serious matter in Islam it is considered the same as treason which has the death penalty.

For a muslim to disbelieve that is a thought crime what else would you call it Abu?

Also Fd says stoning is the punishment for apostasy i thought beheading was the preferred method of execution has fd gone down the garden path on this one?

By having the death penalty for apostasy it shows Islam is not compatible with the United Nations universal declaration of human rights under article 18 freedom of religion.
http://www.un.org/events/humanrights/2007/hrphotos/declaration%20_eng.pdf

The Saudi's said they could not sign the Universal declaration of human rights because it violated Islamic law.Iran signed it then said they could not implement it because it violated Islamic law.

Who would have known Islam was not compatible with the Universal declaration of human rights,I hope Liam reads the fine print on the exit policy with Islam before he joins.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 27^th, 2012 at 8:24pm by Baronvonrort »

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

falah

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3162

Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'
Reply #36 - Jan 27^th, 2012 at 9:16pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 3:41pm:

Why don't you tell me Yadda. You are clearly someone who rejects God, so do you harbour intentions of war against Muslims? Should Muslims class you as a "harbi"?

Moslems believe this philosophy......

That moslems, and only moslems, are beloved of God.

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

I believe this philosophy......

Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Which is a philosophy which is supported in the OT....

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

Deuteronomy 1:17
Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger:
for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

2 Chronicles 19:7
Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.

Psalms 138:6
Though the LORD be high, yet hath he respect unto the lowly: but the proud he knoweth afar off.

Proverbs 28:21
To have respect of persons is not good: for for a piece of bread that man will transgress.

But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it, and (put your) trust in God. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.
[the Quran, al-anfal v.61]

" ... and let not the hatred of some people...lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour: fear God...(al-ma'idah, V.2)

The good deed and the evil deed cannot be equal. Repel the evil deed with one which is better, then verily! he, between whom and you there was enmity, will become as though he was a close friend.
[Fussilat, v.34]

Verily, God enjoins justice and perfecton [through performing good deeds with the intention of pleasing God], and giving (help) to kith and kin; and forbids all wicked deeds, and all that is prohibited by Islamic law, and all kinds of oppression, He admonishes you, that you may take heed.
[ An-Nahl, v. 90).

"And if ye do punish them, punish them no worse than they punished you: but if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient." (An-Nahl, v. 126)

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 27^th, 2012 at 9:25pm by falah »

Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

IP Logged

Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 22083 A cat with a view	Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam' Reply #37 - Jan 28^th, 2012 at 11:50pm Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 8:17pm: ........I hope Liam reads the fine print on the exit policy with Islam before he joins. Disclosure is not required in the joining contract. Only joining, is required. Allah Akbar!
Back to top	"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31 IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22083
A cat with a view

Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'
Reply #38 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 12:11am

falah wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 9:16pm:

But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it, and (put your) trust in God. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.
[the Quran, al-anfal v.61]

" ... and let not the hatred of some people...lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour: fear God...(al-ma'idah, V.2)

The good deed and the evil deed cannot be equal. Repel the evil deed with one which is better, then verily! he, between whom and you there was enmity, will become as though he was a close friend.
[Fussilat, v.34]

Verily, God enjoins justice and perfecton [through performing good deeds with the intention of pleasing God], and giving (help) to kith and kin; and forbids all wicked deeds, and all that is prohibited by Islamic law, and all kinds of oppression, He admonishes you, that you may take heed.
[ An-Nahl, v. 90).

"And if ye do punish them, punish them no worse than they punished you: but if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient." (An-Nahl, v. 126)

falah,

Again, moslem / ISLAMIC non-disclosure [deceit, to achieve objectives].

“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

This all depends upon how ISLAM/Allah defines the words which ISLAM uses to express itself.

Words like 'peace', 'good deed', 'evil deed', 'hatred of some people', 'transgression'.

e.g.
What does the word 'peace' mean, TO A MOSLEM ?

ISLAM, moslems, define 'peace', as, submission to Allah's will.

The moslem has a very different way of defining the word 'peace', than what a Western person would define the word 'peace'!

+++

Dictionary,
sophistry = = the use of fallacious arguments, especially to deceive.

SOPHISTRY EXAMPLE #1

Peace

Good moslems will tell non-moslems, that moslems want to see 'peace' cover the whole earth.

But a moslem, does not openly reveal [at the same time] that all good moslems define 'peace', as submission to Allah's will.
Dar al-Islam = = "house of peace" [is those places where Sharia has authority].
Dar al-Harb = = "house of war".

Google,
Dar al-Harb deception
i.e.
A moslem 'peace' = = mankind's SLAVERY, under ISLAMIST political rule.

SOPHISTRY EXAMPLE #2

'Terrorism'

Good moslems have declared to non-moslems, that they condemn 'terrorism'.

But moslems do not reveal that ISLAMISTS define non-moslems as the terrorists! - Truly!

Because ISLAMISTS have defined 'terrorism' as; Resisting Allah's will!! - Truly!

When non-moslems try to resist the ISLAMISATION of their society, or try to prevent ISLAMIST violence, good moslems [truly!] regard such actions as 'oppression' and 'violence' against moslems! - Truly!

e.g.
"Five Sydney men jailed over terrorism plot"
"The sister for one of the convicted men said...that the sentence is not fair to her community or religion."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/15/2819965.htm
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/australia-5-jihadists-motivated-by-intolerant-...

SOPHISTRY EXAMPLE #3

Innocent people

Good moslems have declared to non-moslems, that they condemn the killing of innocent people.

But the good moslem, does not openly reveal [at the same time] that in ISLAM, only moslems qualify as 'innocent people'.
EXAMPLES next post....

Google to find...

e.g.
"....when we say innocent people, we mean muslims...If you are a non-muslim, then you are guilty...."
Anjem Choudary, UK muslim community leader, speaking publicly, of the London 7/7 bombing victims.

e.g.
"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any [unbeliever]."
Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, speaking publicly, and then privately, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.

e.g.
"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."
Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, speaking to a moslem audience, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.

ISLAM = deceit.

a good read, outlining and exposing ISLAMIST sophistry...

Islamic Dictionary for Infidels
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/07/islamic-dictionary-for-infidels.html

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49963
At my desk.

Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'
Reply #39 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 9:04am

Yadda wrote on Jan 28^th, 2012 at 11:50pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 8:17pm:

........I hope Liam reads the fine print on the exit policy with Islam before he joins.

Disclosure is not required in the joining contract.

Only joining, is required.

Allah Akbar! Wink

Interesting concept. Abu, can Muhammed's reasoning for abrogation still apply today?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam' Reply #40 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 8:34pm Not quite following... what abrogation are you talking about?
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49963
At my desk.

Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'
Reply #41 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 9:55pm

Well, you explained once that Muhammed's abrogation was OK because if he was honest about Islam upfront then people would not have signed up.

Is this an example to be followed by modern Muslims? Or is it like having more than 4 wives - only Muhammed can do it and the rest have to put up with slave girls or whatever they can get their right hand to posess.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

abu_rashid

Gold Member

Offline

Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353

Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'
Reply #42 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 11:34pm

I don't know who you think you had such a conversation with, but it certainly wasn't me.

No doubt you're now going to claim "Well it was either you or malik" as per usual when you invent some nonsense that you can't provide a quote for.

Abrogation in Islam refers to a verse being revealed which is later superseded by a more specific one, has nothing to do with making things sound good, then telling the truth later. If that's what makes you happy though, keep believin' it.

Back to top

IP Logged

perceptions_now

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 11694
Perth WA
Gender: male

Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'
Reply #43 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 12:09am

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 8:34pm:

Not quite following... what abrogation are you talking about?

I'm not aware of Muhammed's abrogation that FD is referring to.

However, be it Islam or any other religion, there is an inherent abrogation of reasoning required at the core of all religions.

Islam & all other religions also requires us to abrogate our other great freedoms of humanity, the freedom of thought and the freedom of speech.

Therefore, I am not a believer, in Islam or any other religion!

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49963 At my desk.	Re: Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam' Reply #44 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 8:35am Abu, isn't it true Islam got stricter as Muhammed made it up, and he forbade things that were previosuly allowed?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged