Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 2:00pm:

Incorrect. The Jews were never forced to convert to Islam - that is why even today one can still find Jews, 1400 years later, still living in Yemen.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 2:00pm:


The verse does not mention Jews. It was revealed in regards to the war that the Pagans had been waging against the Muslims. A peace treaty had been arranged that was to last 4 months. God says in the Quran that the peace treaty should be honoured as long as the Pagans honour it, and fighting should only resume when the 4 months treaty had concluded.

1. A declaration of immunity from God and His Messenger to those of the Polytheists, with whom you made a treaty.

2. So travel freely (O Polytheists) for four months throughout the land, but know that you cannot escape God, and God will disgrace the disbelievers.

3. And a declaration from God and His Messenger to mankind on the greatest day (the 10th day of Dhul-Hijjah - the 12th month of Islamic calendar - The Festival of the Sacrifice (of Abraham)) that God is free from (all) obligations to the polytheists and so is His Messenger. So if you (Polytheists) repent, it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the Punishment of) God. And give tidings of a painful torment to those who disbelieve.

4. Except those of the Polytheists with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely God loves the pious.

5. Then when the forbidden months  have passed, then kill the polytheists (resume the war) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and establish prayer, and give alms, then leave their way free. Verily, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

6. And

if anyone of the Polytheists seeks your protection then grant him protection

, so that he may hear the Word of God (the Qur'an), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.

(The Quran, at-Tawbah)

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 2:00pm:

Actually, Mecca was not known for having a jewish community. Madina did have alrge number of Jews. Some of them, the best of them, converted to Islam in the early days of the islamic state. However, the Jews of Madina were very aggressive warriors, known for their fighting skill. When they started to kill Muslims and join forces with the enemies of the state, the Muslims were forced to fight them. prophet Muhammed tried very hard to make peace with the Jews, but the Jews would often break theri promises of peace and join forces with the enemies of the Islamic state.

falah wrote on Feb 4^th, 2012 at 5:30pm:


You mean the King of Israel eh?

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:47am:

Were they forced to convert or were they dhimmis? Your schizophrenic mind can't seem to make itself up.

The jizya was only applied to free adult males. Slaves, women, children, the old, the sick, monks, hermits and the poor, were all exempt from the tax.

The jizya was not "50% tax on everything they produced." as you claim. For example, at the height of the Abbassid Caliphate, the jizya was set at 48 dirhams for the richest (e.g. moneychangers), 24 for those of moderate wealth, and 12 for craftsmen and manual laborers.

1 dirham is about 3 grams of silver.

So in today's money, a rich Jew would only have paid about $60!
A dirham is about 3 grams of silver.

Even with your best accountants, I am sure that many Jews will pay more than $60 in tax to the Australian government (unless they are even more cunning than we are led to believe)

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:47am:


The people of mecca were polytheistic Pagans - even you admity they worshipped 300 gods. Does jewish law allow the worshipping of 300 Gods?

The Ka'abah was being rebuilt by pagans. The Pagans observed some of the rituals of Abraham, but they also worshipped idols.

The Jews of Arabia were mainly concentrated in Yemen and there were a few tribes in and around Madinah. Jewish tribes had migrated to Madinah because their traditions had told them that this would be the place where the prophet would appear.



Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:47am:


Not true. Khadijah was wealthy woman. Wealthy women and those from noble families were afforded more rights in pagan Arab culture. But ordinary women were treated like property; bought and sold on whims and often prostituted by their own fathers or husbands.

Today their are many businesswoman in the Muslim world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahed_Taher

http://www.forbes.com/profile/maha-al-ghunaim/

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/11/biz-07women_Imre-Barmanbek_JLUJ.html

http://www.forbes.com/2007/08/28/biz-07women_all_slide_95.html

http://www.forbes.com/2007/08/28/biz-07women_all_slide_97.html

http://halalfocus.net/2011/12/08/malaysia-uae-business-women-look-at-opportunities-in-islamic-finance-and-halal-food/

Anyone who has been to Dubai airport would have seen many women working in the stores there.

I have lived in many Muslim countries, and never saw women prevented from going outside without a guardian. I remember when I lived in Saudi Arabia , it was a mazing to see women walking around late at night shopping by themselves - in Australia it would not be safe for women to walk around at night by themselves.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 7:16am:

Incorrect. The Jews were never forced to convert to Islam - that is why even today one can still find Jews, 1400 years later, still living in Yemen.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 2:00pm:


The verse does not mention Jews. It was revealed in regards to the war that the Pagans had been waging against the Muslims. A peace treaty had been arranged that was to last 4 months. God says in the Quran that the peace treaty should be honoured as long as the Pagans honour it, and fighting should only resume when the 4 months treaty had concluded.

1. A declaration of immunity from God and His Messenger to those of the Polytheists, with whom you made a treaty.

2. So travel freely (O Polytheists) for four months throughout the land, but know that you cannot escape God, and God will disgrace the disbelievers.

3. And a declaration from God and His Messenger to mankind on the greatest day (the 10th day of Dhul-Hijjah - the 12th month of Islamic calendar - The Festival of the Sacrifice (of Abraham)) that God is free from (all) obligations to the polytheists and so is His Messenger. So if you (Polytheists) repent, it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the Punishment of) God. And give tidings of a painful torment to those who disbelieve.

4. Except those of the Polytheists with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely God loves the pious.

5. Then when the forbidden months  have passed, then kill the polytheists (resume the war) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and establish prayer, and give alms, then leave their way free. Verily, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

6. And

if anyone of the Polytheists seeks your protection then grant him protection

, so that he may hear the Word of God (the Qur'an), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.

(The Quran, at-Tawbah)

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 2:00pm:

Actually, Mecca was not known for having a jewish community. Madina did have alrge number of Jews. Some of them, the best of them, converted to Islam in the early days of the islamic state. However, the Jews of Madina were very aggressive warriors, known for their fighting skill. When they started to kill Muslims and join forces with the enemies of the state, the Muslims were forced to fight them. prophet Muhammed tried very hard to make peace with the Jews, but the Jews would often break theri promises of peace and join forces with the enemies of the Islamic state. [/quote]