Australian Politics Forum - The Shooters Party Wants You Dead?

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The Shooters Party Wants You Dead?
Dec 26^th, 2011 at 10:32am

Is this what the Shooters and Fisher Party are after in Australia?

Seven shot dead in Dallas unit
26 December 2011 | 10:47:05 AM | Source: AAP

Seven people believed to be related had opened their Christmas gifts and begun cleaning up the wrapping paper when they were shot to death in a Dallas-area apartment.

Police said on Sunday that they believe the shooter is among the dead.

Four women and three men, aged between 18 and 60, were found in an adjoining kitchen and living-room area when police entered the apartment shortly after 11.30am, said Grapevine Police Sgt Robert Eberling.

Two handguns were found near the bodies in the apartment, which he said was decorated for Christmas with a tree.

"It appears they had just celebrated Christmas," Eberling said. "They had opened their gifts."

The victims have not yet been identified, but Eberling said they all appear to have died of gunshot wounds.

"We are pretty confident that the shooter is among the deceased victims inside the apartment," he said. "We are not actively looking for a shooter that we believe is at large."

Police and firefighters rushed to the scene after receiving an open-ended emergency call at about 11.30am.

"There was an open line. No one was saying anything," Eberling said.

Police entered the apartment, at the rear of a complex in the middle-class, suburban neighbourhood of Grapevine.

Many of the nearby apartments were vacant on Christmas morning, however, and police said no neighbours had reported hearing anything.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1614941/Texas-police-find-7-dead-in-Dallas-un...

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The Shooters Party Wants You Dead?
Reply #1 - Dec 26^th, 2011 at 11:02am

I would agree with Woody here.

A party that advocates loosening control on guns is crazy.

We have a gun (in a locked drawer) at home but I have never been massively comfortable about it.
That is more to do with norms in American society v that of Australia.

For a party in Australia to want to see more gun and a loosening of a decent amount of control is absurd.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: The Shooters Party Wants You Dead? Reply #2 - Dec 26^th, 2011 at 11:21am Rubbish....all they want is a return to laws similar to pre-Port Arthur... And the current laws haven't done anything to reduce gun crime in the slightest...just the opposite in fact. There are more shootings and drive bys now than there ever where, before Port Arthur..
Back to top	"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition. It's similar to a strawman fallacy" Bobbythebat IP Logged

Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: The Shooters Party Wants You Dead? Reply #3 - Dec 26^th, 2011 at 11:38am They were just trying out their new presents. The lesson here is don't give the whole family target tee shirts. Bad luck no one got a bullet-proof vest. This is the problem with the naughty list, you have to be good right up until Christmas and then you can let go again.
Back to top	"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up..... IP Logged

Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: The Shooters Party Wants You Dead? Reply #4 - Dec 26^th, 2011 at 11:43am Firearms used to make up over 30% of weapons used in homicides, now they make up less than 15%. Not to mention homicides are declining in both the homicide rate (per 100,000 people) and in real terms.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Shooters Party Wants You Dead?
Reply #5 - Dec 26^th, 2011 at 11:55am

Life_goes_on wrote on Dec 26^th, 2011 at 11:43am:

Firearms used to make up over 30% of weapons used in homicides, now they make up less than 15%.

Not to mention homicides are declining in both the homicide rate (per 100,000 people) and in real terms.

Yes, but what about drive bys, gang related and organised crime gun use??
They've gone UP, not down...

These are from the years just after the gun buybacks and law changes
""The number of Victorians murdered with firearms has almost trebled since the introduction of tighter gun laws.
--Geelong Advertiser, Victoria, Sept. 11, 1997.

"Gun crime is on the rise despite tougher laws imposed after the Port Arthur massacre, but gun control lobbyists maintain Australia is a safer place. . . . The number of robberies involving guns jumped 39% last year to 2183, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, and assaults involving guns rose 28% to 806. The number of gun murders, excluding the Port Arthur massacre, increased by 19% to 75."
--"Gun Crime Rises Despite Controls," Illawarra Mercury Oct. 28, 1998.

"Crime involving guns is on the rise despite tougher laws. The number of robberies with guns jumped 39% in 1997, while assaults involving guns rose 28% and murders by 19%."
--"Gun crime soars," Morning Herald, Sydney, Oct. 28, 1998.

"Murders by firearms have actually increased (in Victoria) since the buyback scheme, which removed 225,000 registered and unregistered firearms from circulation. There were 18 shooting murders in 1996-97, after the buyback scheme had been introduced, compared with only six in 1995-1996 before the scheme started."
--"Killings rise in gun hunt," Herald Sun, Melbourne, Dec. 23, 1998."

The price of black-market/illegal handguns dropped by nearly 50% in NSW in the years just after the laws tightened (according to my 'shady' sources)....From about $1100.00 for a 9mm, to about $650.00.

The only people who actually handed in their guns were the licensed, law abiding sporting, recreational and 'professional' shooters ( weekend hunters, farmers and vermin cullers)...The Governments could achieved the same result by simply standardising state gun laws and banning semi-auto rifles...

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« Last Edit: Dec 26^th, 2011 at 12:18pm by gizmo_2655 »

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Life_goes_on

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Re: The Shooters Party Wants You Dead?
Reply #6 - Dec 26^th, 2011 at 12:16pm

Those reports are the ones that caused the circular by the NRA saying that the buyback actually caused a rise in gun crime.

The stats they are using are the victorian ones where a spike in gun deaths from the gang war occured. The problem being that this spike was less than ten or so homicides - a number statistically insignificant when applied nationally, but one that made a large percentage difference on a state that usually only had a couple of dozen homicides annually anyway.
(There's a Snopes page about the 1998 claims)

A good 9mm will still fetch well over $1500-$2000 on the black market (including just a clip of ammo - or if you're lucky a partial box). What has happened is the quality of the handguns available out there has fallen. Yeah, you can probably buy a handgun for $650 but you're getting an aging small calibre revolver or something like a 40 or 50 year old jam prone s&w 32 semi auto.

Recently I saw a ww2 vintage 45 semi auto for $1300 (but it did come with around 40 rounds). It rattled so badly it seemed like it was about to fall apart.

It's still much cheaper buying a handgun new.

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"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

Num num num num.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Shooters Party Wants You Dead?
Reply #7 - Dec 26^th, 2011 at 12:34pm

Life_goes_on wrote on Dec 26^th, 2011 at 12:16pm:

Those reports are the ones that caused the circular by the NRA saying that the buyback actually caused a rise in gun crime.

The stats they are using are the victorian ones where a spike in gun deaths from the gang war occured. The problem being that this spike was less than ten or so homicides - a number statistically insignificant when applied nationally, but one that made a large percentage difference on a state that usually only had a couple of dozen homicides annually anyway.
(There's a Snopes page about the 1998 claims)

A good 9mm will still fetch well over $1500-$2000 on the black market (including just a clip of ammo - or if you're lucky a partial box). What has happened is the quality of the handguns available out there has fallen. Yeah, you can probably buy a handgun for $650 but you're getting an aging small calibre revolver or something like a 40 or 50 year old jam prone s&w 32 semi auto.

Recently I saw a ww2 vintage 45 semi auto for $1300 (but it did come with around 40 rounds). It rattled so badly it seemed like it was about to fall apart.

It's still much cheaper buying a handgun new.

Sure...IF you can get a license, and if you want anyone to know you have it.....which is the point...your average drug dealer/gang member can't exactly walk into the police station and apply for a handgun carry permit.....what do they put on the application??
Q) Reason for needing handgun
A) To shoot rival drug dealers, members of other gangs and police officers..
That's not going to get you a permit, now is it???

As for the NRA 'slogan' (when guns become outlawed, only outlaws will have guns)...it's still true, crims don't obey laws...it's almost part of the job description...

And how many drive by/cafe and intergang shooting have there been in Sydney, this year alone???
For a while there, the Ibrahim family seemed to cop one a week....

Not that it really matters, since the Shooter's Party are NOT after changes to the handgun laws, or even the semiauto rifle laws.....the only thing they want is a relaxation of the 'harsher' licensing restriction for normal (bolt action, lever action) rifles and shotguns...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Lobo

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Re: The Shooters Party Wants You Dead?
Reply #8 - Dec 26^th, 2011 at 12:38pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 26^th, 2011 at 11:02am:

I would agree with Woody here.

A party that advocates loosening control on guns is crazy.

We have a gun (in a locked drawer) at home but I have never been massively comfortable about it.
That is more to do with norms in American society v that of Australia.

For a party in Australia to want to see more gun and a loosening of a decent amount of control is absurd.

Then why have it?
If you are NOT comfortable with it I suggesr that you NEVER attempt to use it.

Sad

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Shooters Party Wants You Dead?
Reply #9 - Dec 26^th, 2011 at 12:43pm

Lobo wrote on Dec 26^th, 2011 at 12:38pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 26^th, 2011 at 11:02am:

I would agree with Woody here.

A party that advocates loosening control on guns is crazy.

We have a gun (in a locked drawer) at home but I have never been massively comfortable about it.
That is more to do with norms in American society v that of Australia.

For a party in Australia to want to see more gun and a loosening of a decent amount of control is absurd.

Then why have it?
If you are NOT comfortable with it I suggesr that you NEVER attempt to use it.

Sad

Depends where he lives froggie.....some state in America do (or used to) require gun ownership....It's like having a fishing knfe here...everyone has one, lots of people don't use them

And you could always follow your motto.."Illegitimi non carborundum"

Don't let the Bastards grind you down....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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