Australian Politics Forum - How Atheist Are You?

Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: How Atheist Are You? Reply #105 - Dec 30^th, 2011 at 4:31pm You express strong religious sentiments. You may not believe in an ecclesia (church) but you most certinly seem to believe in a congregatio (a coming together), if only in service and worship of nature.
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Amadd

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Re: How Atheist Are You?
Reply #106 - Dec 30^th, 2011 at 5:28pm

Soren wrote on Dec 30^th, 2011 at 4:31pm:

You express strong religious sentiments. You may not believe in an ecclesia (church) but you most certinly seem to believe in a congregatio (a coming together), if only in service and worship of nature.

That club is called the "Club of Humanity". It is open to all humans; religious and non-religious alike.
The difference seems to be within the way in which we pay tribute.

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Soren

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Re: How Atheist Are You?
Reply #107 - Dec 30^th, 2011 at 9:51pm

Amadd wrote on Dec 30^th, 2011 at 5:28pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 30^th, 2011 at 4:31pm:

You express strong religious sentiments. You may not believe in an ecclesia (church) but you most certinly seem to believe in a congregatio (a coming together), if only in service and worship of nature.

That club is called the "Club of Humanity". It is open to all humans; religious and non-religious alike.
The difference seems to be within the way in which we pay tribute.

Deifying nature is not atheism or club of humanity. Investing nature with meaning that subsumes all humans and binds them together in something common, something shared, something meaningful beyond them individually and only in community with each other and nature is - religion.

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Grey

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Re: How Atheist Are You?
Reply #108 - Dec 30^th, 2011 at 11:02pm

Soren wrote on Dec 30^th, 2011 at 8:40am:

Grey wrote on Dec 29^th, 2011 at 11:52pm:

I am curious about how you justify your existence and what value you see in it.

Do you have difficulty placing a value on things Soren?

What is the value of:
the unfurling frond?
a new born baby?
a forest waterfall?
a shooting star?

We live in the Universe, the one poem. Do you need a value for that? Do you need to fill the don't knows with false answers?

You poor bugger.

Unsurprisingly, you didn't ask me about the values of

betrayal
rejection
flees
lice
hostility
arson
rape
degradation

You just blurted out some sentimental crap and a couple of inane questions. As if these were an answer to anything. And a stupid smiley.

Same for the above post perceptions, about 'surely you don't suggest...?" A very inelegant sidestep.

I would rather be the purveyor of sentimental crap Soren, than see value in rape.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: How Atheist Are You? Reply #109 - Dec 30^th, 2011 at 11:27pm Frikin' Greeks
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Soren

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Re: How Atheist Are You?
Reply #110 - Jan 1^st, 2012 at 10:12pm

Amadd wrote on Dec 30^th, 2011 at 11:27pm:

Frikin' Greeks Roll Eyes

There is no need to bother about such men as these, whose name is legion, or to take notice of their fooleries. Neither need we try to convert men who define by generalizing and cannot make room for distinctions, just in order to have such fellows for our company in very subtle and delicate doctrines. Besides, with all the proofs in the world what would you expect to accomplish in the minds of people who are too stupid to recognize their own limitations?

Galileo (Italian), Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems (third day)

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Grey

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Re: How Atheist Are You?
Reply #111 - Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 3:39am

Soren wrote on Jan 1^st, 2012 at 10:12pm:

Amadd wrote on Dec 30^th, 2011 at 11:27pm:

Frikin' Greeks Roll Eyes

There is no need to bother about such men as these, whose name is legion, or to take notice of their fooleries. Neither need we try to convert men who define by generalizing and cannot make room for distinctions, just in order to have such fellows for our company in very subtle and delicate doctrines. Besides, with all the proofs in the world what would you expect to accomplish in the minds of people who are too stupid to recognize their own limitations?

Galileo (Italian), Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems (third day)

Proof and irony are the two subjects you get a fail in Soren.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Soren

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Re: How Atheist Are You?
Reply #112 - Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 5:19pm

Grey wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 3:39am:

Soren wrote on Jan 1^st, 2012 at 10:12pm:

Amadd wrote on Dec 30^th, 2011 at 11:27pm:

Frikin' Greeks Roll Eyes

There is no need to bother about such men as these, whose name is legion, or to take notice of their fooleries. Neither need we try to convert men who define by generalizing and cannot make room for distinctions, just in order to have such fellows for our company in very subtle and delicate doctrines. Besides, with all the proofs in the world what would you expect to accomplish in the minds of people who are too stupid to recognize their own limitations?

Galileo (Italian), Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems (third day)

Proof and irony are the two subjects you get a fail in Soren.

As Richard Dawkins said, there are no jokes in atheism.

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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: How Atheist Are You? Reply #113 - Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 5:26pm If I could supply a 100% proof that god did not exist, then he wouldn't exist. If you could supply a 100% proof that god did exist, then he wouldn't exist.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: How Atheist Are You? Reply #114 - Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 5:40pm Grey wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 5:26pm: If I could supply a 100% proof that god did not exist, then he wouldn't exist. If you could supply a 100% proof that god did exist, then he wouldn't exist. That's very self-revelatory of you. Brave, for somone with your limitation. A+
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59830 Here Gender:	Re: How Atheist Are You? Reply #115 - Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 6:08pm I see no need to trash other people’s beliefs - either way.
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nairbe

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Re: How Atheist Are You?
Reply #116 - Jan 3^rd, 2012 at 8:33pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 6:08pm:

I see no need to trash other people’s beliefs - either way.

That is a cowards statement. It may well be wise not to be harsh and judgemental about an others beliefs but the whole point in this thread is to chalenge and debate atheism and belief at the core. If you can not take some hard words you are maybe only showing how shallow your belief is.

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"Faced with what is right, to leave it undone shows a lack of courage."
Confucius

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Grey

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Re: How Atheist Are You?
Reply #117 - Jan 3^rd, 2012 at 10:56pm

Soren wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Grey wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 5:26pm:

If I could supply a 100% proof that god did not exist, then he wouldn't exist.

If you could supply a 100% proof that god did exist, then he wouldn't exist.

That's very self-revelatory of you. Brave, for somone with your limitation.

A+

it is of course revelatory of god not me. God is built of faith. The moment god becomes a fact he dies.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Soren

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Re: How Atheist Are You?
Reply #118 - Jan 3^rd, 2012 at 11:03pm

Grey wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2012 at 10:56pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Grey wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2012 at 5:26pm:

If I could supply a 100% proof that god did not exist, then he wouldn't exist.

If you could supply a 100% proof that god did exist, then he wouldn't exist.

That's very self-revelatory of you. Brave, for somone with your limitation.

A+

it is of course revelatory of god not me. God is built of faith. The moment god becomes a fact he dies.

Of course, uh-huh, of course...

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muso

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Re: How Atheist Are You?
Reply #119 - Jan 5^th, 2012 at 11:30am

Soren wrote on Dec 30^th, 2011 at 9:51pm:

Deifying nature is not atheism or club of humanity. Investing nature with meaning that subsumes all humans and binds them together in something common, something shared, something meaningful beyond them individually and only in community with each other and nature is - religion.

I always think that in the name of monotheism, Ashtoreth, the wife of Jehovah got a raw deal from the Judeo Christian religions. She represented the mother goddess, and had strong associations with nature and the Earth. She was frequently represented as a tree and worshipped by the Jews right up to the 6th Century BCE.

These religions deny the natural world, the flesh and any earthly matters, and cast her out as being the "Great Harlot" of Revelations along with any nurturing motherly aspects of religion .

From that time onwards any reference to the feminine divinity or traditional ceremonies in sacred groves celebrating nature have been denounced as witchcraft.

The worship of nature in itself is not necessarily atheistic, but it has long been anathema to the Abrahamists .

The God of nature is also the Deist God. (male by convention)

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