Australian Politics Forum - "Stop the BOATS " ?

philperth2010

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #330 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:30am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:14am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:11am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 9:41am:

philperth2010 wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 9:36am:

Abbott has ruled out turning back the boats as Indonesia is not a signatory to the refugee convention.....This leaves the Coalition in a very strange position.....They have argued for compassion and humanity towards asylum seekers coming to Australia declaring Malaysia as to barbaric and cruel to send these desperate people.....So we can expect better treatment from the Coalition towards asylum seekers in the future.....Bullshit!!!

Angry

The Coalition will continue to resettle 13,000 asylum seekers per annum, and still have an effective border protection program that destroys the smugglers business model.

Oh? And what is this effective border protection program?

Heard of the Pacific Solution? Temporary Protection Visa's (TPV's), offshore processing, turning back boats when safe to do so. For the past decade or so the Coalition has had a consistent and effective policy on this issue, proven to work. Unfortunately, the ALP has no policy and has failed miserably to stop the people smuggling boats.

Cannot happen.....Tony Abbott cannot turn back the boats for several reasons!!!

1. Indonesia is not a signatory to the refugee convention (A condition Abbott has indicated is essential to ensure the protection of asylum seekers). Australia cannot turn the boats back to these barbaric countries (Scott Morrison has condemned them as unacceptable).

2. The boat journey would be just as hazardous on the return trip as it was trying to get to Australia.....Turning boats back would make a mockery of the claim the Coalition is against asylum seekers arriving by boat because of the risk on the high seas.....Exposing these people to more risk is out of the question according to the new doctrine of the Opposition!!!!

3. The navy has indicated its reluctance to turn boats around and have claimed the practice is dangerous and destroys moral within the services to treat people in this inhumane way!!!

4. The boats will be sabotaged causing greater risk to life and expose both asylum seekers and RAN personnel to added danger!!!

Turning back the boats will never happen again if the Coalition is serious about the humane treatment of asylum seekers!!!

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #331 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:30am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:28am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:26am:

I would, but my knee is a bit dodgy... Tongue

That's okay - you can cook. I recommend you join up, as clearly we need to get our frontline out and ready to defend Australia against this massive, massive invasion!

Grin

My wife loves my cooking - especially my risotto, roast pork and spaghetti bolognase!

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FriYAY

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #332 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:31am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:18am:

FriYAY wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:15am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:09am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 9:22am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 8:55am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 7:15am:

And in Australia, whether it's a trickle or a flood, using criminals to smuggle someone across our border isn't something the government needs to sponsor via weak and ineffective border protection laws.

People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if the government was free from public outrage to actually conduct a thorough review of our refugee program and strengthen it. People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if the government used diplomatic approaches to tackle Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand on their disturbing refugee programs. People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if our past governments didn't enter redundant wars just because they couldn't get their heads out of US's ass.

I'd rather see the government have a working border protection program.

how is our border protection not working at the moment? Are we being invaded are we?

I think we need to look at the world and what is happening in the world. Over population, hunger, thirst, internal/external conflict, religious persecution/conflict.

I think the issue will only get worse and worse as time goes by.

Perhaps one day we will need very stringent border protection. Huh

Or perhaps one day our governments will get off their arse and actually treat this issue as importantly as they treat Climate Change and Economics.

Yeah. maybe that too.

But that was not my point. I was trying to look past the popularity of the moment and take it a bit further.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #333 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:32am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:09am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 9:22am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 8:55am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 7:15am:

And in Australia, whether it's a trickle or a flood, using criminals to smuggle someone across our border isn't something the government needs to sponsor via weak and ineffective border protection laws.

People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if the government was free from public outrage to actually conduct a thorough review of our refugee program and strengthen it. People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if the government used diplomatic approaches to tackle Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand on their disturbing refugee programs. People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if our past governments didn't enter redundant wars just because they couldn't get their heads out of US's ass.

I'd rather see the government have a working border protection program.

how is our border protection not working at the moment? Are we being invaded are we?

Thankfully not, and we don't have to wait till we are before doing something either.
We also don't have to wait until a few more boatloads are mashed to gruel on Christmas Island rocks before realising criminal people smugglers boats aren't a safe method of transport.
That might be Labors way, it is also Greece's way but it doesn't have to be the Coalition's way.
However as Labors failed policy has taken the cost of this program from $100 Million p/a and falling to now over $2Billion p/a and rising with no deterrent to criminal smugglers, clearly indicates the failure of Labors policy.
And considering Labor has had to re-open previously Coalition closed down detention centres,and is now building more in conjunction with housing these people in motels after flying these people around the country also clearly demonstrates Labors dismal failure.
This is akin to Labor putting more ambulances at the bottom of the Gap in Sydney in response to an increase in suicides.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #334 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:33am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:30am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:28am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:26am:

I would, but my knee is a bit dodgy... Tongue

That's okay - you can cook. I recommend you join up, as clearly we need to get our frontline out and ready to defend Australia against this massive, massive invasion!

Grin

My wife loves my cooking - especially my risotto, roast pork and spaghetti bolognase!

Well then, it'll be a good feed for the frontline as they defend against this massive invasion. Do your part, sign up.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #335 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:35am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:32am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:09am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 9:22am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 8:55am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 7:15am:

And in Australia, whether it's a trickle or a flood, using criminals to smuggle someone across our border isn't something the government needs to sponsor via weak and ineffective border protection laws.

People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if the government was free from public outrage to actually conduct a thorough review of our refugee program and strengthen it. People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if the government used diplomatic approaches to tackle Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand on their disturbing refugee programs. People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if our past governments didn't enter redundant wars just because they couldn't get their heads out of US's ass.

I'd rather see the government have a working border protection program.

how is our border protection not working at the moment? Are we being invaded are we?

Thankfully not, and we don't have to wait till we are before doing something either.

Here comes that pesky thinking again that you refuse to similarly take with Climate Change. ;d

And I ask you, since your idea of border protection is stopping boats filled with refugees, how will putting together a policy of...say...Nauru...or Malaysia, stop an ACTUAL invasion from occuring? How does it actually strengthen the border from such risk?

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #336 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:37am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:32am:

However as Labors failed policy has taken the cost of this program from $100 Million p/a and falling to now over $2Billion p/a and rising with no deterrent to criminal smugglers, clearly indicates the failure of Labors policy.
And considering Labor has had to re-open previously Coalition closed down detention centres,and is now building more in conjunction with housing these people in motels after flying these people around the country also clearly demonstrates Labors dismal failure.
This is akin to Labor putting more ambulances at the bottom of the Gap in Sydney in response to an increase in suicides.

I agree with what you're saying. Hence why I'm saying we need to re-assess our current refugee program, open diplomatic lines regarding the issue with Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand, to GET THEM TO SMARTEN UP THEIR ACT, call for a world solution, and stop this mantra that only serves to make the mere minority of bigots happy.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #337 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:38am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:33am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:30am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:28am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:26am:

I would, but my knee is a bit dodgy... Tongue

That's okay - you can cook. I recommend you join up, as clearly we need to get our frontline out and ready to defend Australia against this massive, massive invasion!

Grin

My wife loves my cooking - especially my risotto, roast pork and spaghetti bolognase!

Well then, it'll be a good feed for the frontline as they defend against this massive invasion. Do your part, sign up.

In all seriousness, I would have joined the RAAF years ago, only my hearing isn't up to the required standard. All I ever wanted to do since I was about 7 years old was to be a pilot, but due to my hearing it's never gonna happen. That rules out the other two arms of the ADF as well, unfortunately because I'd have enjoyed the Navy as well.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #338 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:53am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:11am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 9:20am:

[quote author=alevine link=1316868710/300#307 date=1317164678]

Well that something you say hasn't impacted our way of life is now costing the taxpayer $2BN per year and rising.
And we don't have to study the effects of out of control rising government debt in Greece to see what could happen when a nation has lost control of their border protection policy.
And if you don't like what an extrapolated computer model is telling you, turn the computer off and put your crash helmet on if you think you are in imminent danger. Grin

And I would that the only person needing to place a helmet on is you, and get yourself some bayonets because it appears we are being invaded by strange and different people who are out to completely change our life. Grin

Thankfully the Coalition will not wait until our government debt rivals that of Greece before taking positive steps.
And that is where Gillard is failing, she is incapable of doing what she says she will do.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #339 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:55am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:53am:

Thankfully the Coalition will not wait until our government debt rivals that of Greece before taking positive steps.
And that is where Gillard is failing, she is incapable of doing what she says she will do.

I just love the rightards try to link Greece's debt problems to ...boat arrivals. Grin

WOW

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...

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #340 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:57am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:55am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:53am:

Thankfully the Coalition will not wait until our government debt rivals that of Greece before taking positive steps.
And that is where Gillard is failing, she is incapable of doing what she says she will do.

I just love the rightards try to link Greece's debt problems to ...boat arrivals. Grin

WOW

It's one piece of the puzzle.

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In the fullness of time...

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #341 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:57am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:35am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:32am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:09am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 9:22am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 8:55am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 7:15am:

And in Australia, whether it's a trickle or a flood, using criminals to smuggle someone across our border isn't something the government needs to sponsor via weak and ineffective border protection laws.

People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if the government was free from public outrage to actually conduct a thorough review of our refugee program and strengthen it. People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if the government used diplomatic approaches to tackle Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand on their disturbing refugee programs. People wouldn't require the use of smugglers to seek refuge if our past governments didn't enter redundant wars just because they couldn't get their heads out of US's ass.

I'd rather see the government have a working border protection program.

how is our border protection not working at the moment? Are we being invaded are we?

Thankfully not, and we don't have to wait till we are before doing something either.

Here comes that pesky thinking again that you refuse to similarly take with Climate Change. ;d

And I ask you, since your idea of border protection is stopping boats filled with refugees, how will putting together a policy of...say...Nauru...or Malaysia, stop an ACTUAL invasion from occuring? How does it actually strengthen the border from such risk?

I'll leave the defence of our borders to the defence force as we have always done, and the deterrent to people smugglers by our governments policies.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #342 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:58am ... wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:57am: It's one piece of the puzzle. Potentially. One of the tiniest pieces of the puzzle - the little tiny edge one. You know, that little one that if you lose somewhere it doesn't really matter because it's pretty irrelevant.
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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #343 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 11:01am chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:57am: I'll leave the defence of our borders to the defence force as we have always done, and the deterrent to people smugglers by our governments policies. But I thought that the defence of our borders was a big problem? Isn't that what you said? Backtracking are we?
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...

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #344 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 11:10am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

... wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:57am:

It's one piece of the puzzle.

Potentially. One of the tiniest pieces of the puzzle - the little tiny edge one. You know, that little one that if you lose somewhere it doesn't really matter because it's pretty irrelevant.

You think 50000 illegal arrivals in Italy, and 31,000 in greece this year alone (it's all part of the EU) is irrelevant? C'mon alevine, get real.

It's also estimated there are 2.5 million illegal immgrants in greece.

Quote:

It is an alarming situation that there are 2.5 million illegal immigrants living in Greece; another one million are in transit to enter the country. Out of them more than a million belong to Pakistan and almost half of them belong to Gujrat and Mandi Bahauddin districts.

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In the fullness of time...

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