Australian Politics Forum - "Stop the BOATS " ?

Maqqa

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #210 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:40am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 9:31am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:11am:

helian tells us it's "not a crime"

Cheesy

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 4A
Application of the Criminal Code

Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code (except Part 2.5) applies to all offences against this Act.

Note: Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code sets out the general principles of criminal responsibility.

Yes, and when a asylum seeker arrives in Australia and seeks asylum, they are in fact applying for a protection visa, in which case they are not actually committing any crime.

It is only a crime if after the entire process the person is denied a protection visa and still chooses to remain in the country.

But nice try. I suggest you learn to read

and until such time they are given one then they are ILLEGAL

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Maqqa

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #211 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:41am

buzzanddidj wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:34am:

What are the human rights of asylum seekers and refugees?

Australia has obligations to protect the human rights of all asylum seekers and refugees who arrive in Australia, regardless of how or where they arrive and whether they arrive with or without a visa. As a party to the Refugee Convention, Australia has agreed to ensure that people who meet the definition of refugee under the Convention are not sent back to a country where their life or freedom would be threatened. This is known as the principle of non-refoulement.

Australia also has obligations not to return people who face a real risk of violation of certain human rights under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the Convention Against Torture and the Convention on the Rights of the Child - even if they do not meet the definition of refugee under the Refugee Convention.

In addition, while asylum seekers and refugees are in Australian territory (or otherwise subject to Australia’s jurisdiction), the Australian Government has obligations under various international treaties to ensure that their human rights are respected and protected. These treaties include the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, the Convention Against Torture and the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights/immigration/asylum_seekers.html

until such times that their asylum status or refugee status are verified - they are ILLEGALS!

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #212 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:43am

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:40am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 9:31am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:11am:

helian tells us it's "not a crime"

Cheesy

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 4A
Application of the Criminal Code

Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code (except Part 2.5) applies to all offences against this Act.

Note: Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code sets out the general principles of criminal responsibility.

Yes, and when a asylum seeker arrives in Australia and seeks asylum, they are in fact applying for a protection visa, in which case they are not actually committing any crime.

It is only a crime if after the entire process the person is denied a protection visa and still chooses to remain in the country.

But nice try. I suggest you learn to read

and until such time they are given one then they are ILLEGAL

Nope. Until that time they are not illegal because they have gone through and legally applied for asylum.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Maqqa

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #213 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:45am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:43am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:40am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 9:31am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:11am:

helian tells us it's "not a crime"

Cheesy

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 4A
Application of the Criminal Code

Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code (except Part 2.5) applies to all offences against this Act.

Note: Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code sets out the general principles of criminal responsibility.

Yes, and when a asylum seeker arrives in Australia and seeks asylum, they are in fact applying for a protection visa, in which case they are not actually committing any crime.

It is only a crime if after the entire process the person is denied a protection visa and still chooses to remain in the country.

But nice try. I suggest you learn to read

and until such time they are given one then they are ILLEGAL

Nope. Until that time they are not illegal because they have gone through and legally applied for asylum.

You can legally apply for asylum but until your asylum status is verified you are still ILLEGAL

on a separate point you mentioned they have "legally applied for asylum"

so that means there is an "illegal" way to apply for asylum??

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #214 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:46am

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:45am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:43am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:40am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 9:31am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:11am:

helian tells us it's "not a crime"

Cheesy

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 4A
Application of the Criminal Code

Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code (except Part 2.5) applies to all offences against this Act.

Note: Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code sets out the general principles of criminal responsibility.

Yes, and when a asylum seeker arrives in Australia and seeks asylum, they are in fact applying for a protection visa, in which case they are not actually committing any crime.

It is only a crime if after the entire process the person is denied a protection visa and still chooses to remain in the country.

But nice try. I suggest you learn to read

and until such time they are given one then they are ILLEGAL

Nope. Until that time they are not illegal because they have gone through and legally applied for asylum.

You can legally apply for asylum but until your asylum status is verified you are still ILLEGAL

Nope. It is only once you have had your asylum status denied and your appeals have been denied that you are deported because you become an unlawful non-citizen (illegal).

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #215 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:48am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:46am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:45am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:43am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:40am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 9:31am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:11am:

helian tells us it's "not a crime"

Cheesy

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 4A
Application of the Criminal Code

Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code (except Part 2.5) applies to all offences against this Act.

Note: Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code sets out the general principles of criminal responsibility.

Yes, and when a asylum seeker arrives in Australia and seeks asylum, they are in fact applying for a protection visa, in which case they are not actually committing any crime.

It is only a crime if after the entire process the person is denied a protection visa and still chooses to remain in the country.

But nice try. I suggest you learn to read

and until such time they are given one then they are ILLEGAL

Nope. Until that time they are not illegal because they have gone through and legally applied for asylum.

You can legally apply for asylum but until your asylum status is verified you are still ILLEGAL

Nope. It is only once you have had your asylum status denied and your appeals have been denied that you are deported because you become an unlawful non-citizen (illegal).

you maintain that status until such time that your claims are verified

this is why the Temporary Protection VISA was introduced

but the lefties didn't want it - so now these people don't have anything

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #216 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:50am

Attempting to enter Australia is clearly illegal if you do not have a visa.
Staying in Australia on purpose without valid explanation is also clearly illegal and needs to be stamped out too.

Why we allow these urchins in is beyond me.

How's this? I get a lecture from Immigration for entering Australia on a UK passport, despite being an Australian citizen but they let in and house useless urchins from the third world who add bugger all but problems to our country.

Sometimes our priorities are up sh*t creek they really are.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #217 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:53am

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:48am:

you maintain that status until such time that your claims are verified

this is why the Temporary Protection VISA was introduced

but the lefties didn't want it - so now these people don't have anything

No, the temporary protection VISA was introduced as just another way to spruik outrage in the community over asylum seekers who arrive by boat, and to denigrate them.

If temporary protection VISAs were for protection of all asylum seekers, than those who arrive on VISAs and then claim asylum after overstaying would also be granted temporary protection VISAs, and yet these were only ever applied to people arriving by boat.

And "these people" do have something - they have the right to apply for asylum under the UNHCR which Australia is obliged to obide by. This means they are no longer unlawful citizens while they are being processed, and thereafter if their claim is verified and granted. AND it also means that without temporary proteciton visas, these people actually get complete protection until such time as they decide they either feel safe to go home, or stay in Australia and create a productive life for themselves.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #218 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:55am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:50am:

Attempting to enter Australia is clearly illegal if you do not have a visa.
Staying in Australia on purpose without valid explanation is also clearly illegal and needs to be stamped out too.

Why we allow these urchins in is beyond me.

How's this? I get a lecture from Immigration for entering Australia on a UK passport, despite being an Australian citizen but they let in and house useless urchins from the third world who add bugger all but problems to our country.

Sometimes our priorities are up sh*t creek they really are.

Still waiting to hear what you think about the 50,000 overstayers from Britain, like your sister. Agree? Disagree?

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #219 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:58am

My sister is hardly what we are talking about.

She got the dates mixed up about when she was supposed to leave and when she was supposed to not work.

Her explanation was accepted by AU Immigration and she boarded a flight to London.
Why are UK citizens treated like this? Obvious isn't it?
Their explanations are valid and they are most of the time genuine mistakes.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #220 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:59am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

My sister is hardly what we are talking about.

She got the dates mixed up about when she was supposed to leave and when she was supposed to not work.

Her explanation was accepted by AU Immigration and she boarded a flight to London.
Why are UK citizens treated like this? Obvious isn't it?
Their explanations are valid and they are most of the time genuine mistakes.

But she was still an unlawful citizen. Correct?

And I wouldn't go generalising like that if I were you. It's never aids your argument to justify an opinion based on 1 past personal experience, which you can't even prove happened and is true.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #221 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 11:17am A person whose VISA has expired at lleast has gone through the appropriate checking and processing The ones arriving by boats have not
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #222 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 11:21am

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 11:17am:

A person whose VISA has expired at lleast has gone through the appropriate checking and processing

The ones arriving by boats have not

Now you're arguing a different point - nice. A person who has had their VISA expired and is still in this country has become an unlawful citizen, unless they of course apply for asylum.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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scope Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1659 Gender:	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #223 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 11:42am There is no law in Australia that prevents anybody no matter how they arrive here from seeking asylum once they arrive. Arriving here without any paperwork makes no difference. Australian law and international law are the same in this respect. A visa is not required to enter this country to claim asylum.
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #224 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 12:24pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:13am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:07am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:04am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:01am:

Then you and your argument are stuffed because you can't even board a plane or ferry or cruise ship in another country to come here unless you can show that you have a valid passport and visa.

Oh really? Grin

Would that include a private plane, a private ferry, a private ship? Grin

If you come via private plane (i.e. if you are Tom Cruise) or private ferry you still have to pass through Customs at both your point of departure and point of arrival. If you go through Customs here without having been processed at your point of departure, we have no way of knowing where you came from and that country has no record of you having left (in which case you may well be overstaying illegally as far as they know). Satisfied? I'm predicting no...

Looks like I'm going to have to make it as blatant as I can...

Let's say a famous dissident like, say, Liu Xiaobo escaped from China and was flown, without a visa or passport to Australia. He arrives in Australia and immediately demands political asylum.

(1) Has he committed a crime by arriving in Australia? No.

(2)Would Australia be obliged to consider his request for political asylum? Yes.

Why? Because Liu Xiaobo would not have committed any crime and would not be an 'illegal'.

In the context of seeking asylum, while one has committed a crime entering Australia without valid paperwork, their asylum claim would take precedence until their case was determined. If their claim is proven, the offence is written off and they would be granted asylum. If their asylum request is denied, they are deported in most cases. Your statements regarding entry into Australia without documentation not being illegal made no mention of asylum claims. The lengths you have gone to in your attempts to try to prove us wrong is just ridiculous.

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