Australian Politics Forum - "Stop the BOATS " ?

Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #195 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:56am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:36am:

so still no reference from helian or any other lefty

GAME SET AND MATCH

NEXT!

Here's an easy test for those mentally challenged, like yourself.

When a person arrives in Australia without a valid visa, he is not charged with the 'crime' of arriving in Australia without a valid visa.

Why would that be? You ask...

Because

There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

Is it starting to sink in now?

so now we've moved to the technical definition of "a crime" now

a crime is committed when the person has broken a law

the person who committed the crime is handed a sentence

the sentence is a set of actions as punishment

this could include deportation

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #196 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:57am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:49am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:36am:

so still no reference from helian or any other lefty

GAME SET AND MATCH

NEXT!

Here's an easy test for those mentally challenged, like yourself.

When a person arrives in Australia without a valid visa, he is not charged with the 'crime' of arriving in Australia without a valid visa.

Why would that be? You ask...

Because

There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

Is it starting to sink in now?

Listen, it is illegal to enter Australia without a valid (usually requires ATLEAST 6 months remaining until expiration date) passport and visa.

Again, your mind lacks agility... The issue is arrival in Australia.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #197 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:59am

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:56am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:36am:

so still no reference from helian or any other lefty

GAME SET AND MATCH

NEXT!

Here's an easy test for those mentally challenged, like yourself.

When a person arrives in Australia without a valid visa, he is not charged with the 'crime' of arriving in Australia without a valid visa.

Why would that be? You ask...

Because

There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

Is it starting to sink in now?

so now we've moved to the technical definition of "a crime" now

a crime is committed when the person has broken a law

the person who committed the crime is handed a sentence

the sentence is a set of actions as punishment

this could include deportation

A person acts illegally only when he commits a crime. As there is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa, the person has not committed a crime by arriving in Australia and therefore has not acted illegally and is therefore not an 'illegal' (whatever the 10% thinks that means).

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #198 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:01am still no reference from helian GAME SET AND MATCH!!
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #199 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:01am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:57am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:49am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:36am:

so still no reference from helian or any other lefty

GAME SET AND MATCH

NEXT!

Here's an easy test for those mentally challenged, like yourself.

When a person arrives in Australia without a valid visa, he is not charged with the 'crime' of arriving in Australia without a valid visa.

Why would that be? You ask...

Because

There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

Is it starting to sink in now?

Listen, it is illegal to enter Australia without a valid (usually requires ATLEAST 6 months remaining until expiration date) passport and visa.

Again, your mind lacks agility... The issue is arrival in Australia.

Then you and your argument are stuffed because you can't even board a plane or ferry or cruise ship in another country to come here unless you can show that you have a valid passport and visa. Custooms officials in the country you intend to head to Australia from will not allow you to even board the plane, ferry or cruise ship without them and if you did somehow get here without them you'd be taken straight to a cell at the back of the Customs section of the airport (if you came by air).

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000

Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #200 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:03am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:57am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:49am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:36am:

so still no reference from helian or any other lefty

GAME SET AND MATCH

NEXT!

Here's an easy test for those mentally challenged, like yourself.

When a person arrives in Australia without a valid visa, he is not charged with the 'crime' of arriving in Australia without a valid visa.

Why would that be? You ask...

Because

There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

Is it starting to sink in now?

Listen, it is illegal to enter Australia without a valid (usually requires ATLEAST 6 months remaining until expiration date) passport and visa.

Again, your mind lacks agility... The issue is arrival in Australia.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/95documents.htm

does it say "arrival" or "enter" on this website?

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #201 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:04am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:01am:

Then you and your argument are stuffed because you can't even board a plane or ferry or cruise ship in another country to come here unless you can show that you have a valid passport and visa.

Oh really? Grin

Would that include a private plane, a private ferry, a private ship? Grin

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #202 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:07am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:04am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:01am:

Then you and your argument are stuffed because you can't even board a plane or ferry or cruise ship in another country to come here unless you can show that you have a valid passport and visa.

Oh really? Grin

Would that include a private plane, a private ferry, a private ship? Grin

If you come via private plane (i.e. if you are Tom Cruise) or private ferry you still have to pass through Customs at both your point of departure and point of arrival. If you go through Customs here without having been processed at your point of departure, we have no way of knowing where you came from and that country has no record of you having left (in which case you may well be overstaying illegally as far as they know). Satisfied? I'm predicting no...

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #203 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:11am helian tells us it's "not a crime" MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 4A Application of the Criminal Code Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code (except Part 2.5) applies to all offences against this Act. Note: Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code sets out the general principles of criminal responsibility.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #204 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:13am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:07am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:04am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:01am:

Then you and your argument are stuffed because you can't even board a plane or ferry or cruise ship in another country to come here unless you can show that you have a valid passport and visa.

Oh really? Grin

Would that include a private plane, a private ferry, a private ship? Grin

If you come via private plane (i.e. if you are Tom Cruise) or private ferry you still have to pass through Customs at both your point of departure and point of arrival. If you go through Customs here without having been processed at your point of departure, we have no way of knowing where you came from and that country has no record of you having left (in which case you may well be overstaying illegally as far as they know). Satisfied? I'm predicting no...

Looks like I'm going to have to make it as blatant as I can...

Let's say a famous dissident like, say, Liu Xiaobo escaped from China and was flown, without a visa or passport to Australia. He arrives in Australia and immediately demands political asylum.

(1) Has he committed a crime by arriving in Australia? No.

(2)Would Australia be obliged to consider his request for political asylum? Yes.

Why? Because Liu Xiaobo would not have committed any crime and would not be an 'illegal'.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000

Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #205 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:19am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:13am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:07am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:04am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:01am:

Then you and your argument are stuffed because you can't even board a plane or ferry or cruise ship in another country to come here unless you can show that you have a valid passport and visa.

Oh really? Grin

Would that include a private plane, a private ferry, a private ship? Grin

If you come via private plane (i.e. if you are Tom Cruise) or private ferry you still have to pass through Customs at both your point of departure and point of arrival. If you go through Customs here without having been processed at your point of departure, we have no way of knowing where you came from and that country has no record of you having left (in which case you may well be overstaying illegally as far as they know). Satisfied? I'm predicting no...

Looks like I'm going to have to make it as blatant as I can...

Let's say a famous dissident like, say, Liu Xiaobo escaped from China and was flown, without a visa or passport to Australia. He arrives in Australia and immediately demands political asylum.

(1) Has he committed a crime by arriving in Australia? No.

(2)Would Australia be obliged to consider his request for political asylum? Yes.

Why? Because Liu Xiaobo would not have committed any crime and would not be an 'illegal'.

where was he flown from?

no passport requirements there?

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #206 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:24am Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:19am: where was he flown from? no passport requirements there? You really are a friggin idiot And you contribute to a political forum! Check out who Liu Xiaobo is....
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buzzanddidj

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Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC
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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #207 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:34am

What are the human rights of asylum seekers and refugees?

Australia has obligations to protect the human rights of all asylum seekers and refugees who arrive in Australia, regardless of how or where they arrive and whether they arrive with or without a visa. As a party to the Refugee Convention, Australia has agreed to ensure that people who meet the definition of refugee under the Convention are not sent back to a country where their life or freedom would be threatened. This is known as the principle of non-refoulement.

Australia also has obligations not to return people who face a real risk of violation of certain human rights under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the Convention Against Torture and the Convention on the Rights of the Child - even if they do not meet the definition of refugee under the Refugee Convention.

In addition, while asylum seekers and refugees are in Australian territory (or otherwise subject to Australia’s jurisdiction), the Australian Government has obligations under various international treaties to ensure that their human rights are respected and protected. These treaties include the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, the Convention Against Torture and the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights/immigration/asylum_seekers.html

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #208 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 9:31am

Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:11am:

helian tells us it's "not a crime"

Cheesy

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 4A
Application of the Criminal Code

Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code (except Part 2.5) applies to all offences against this Act.

Note: Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code sets out the general principles of criminal responsibility.

Yes, and when a asylum seeker arrives in Australia and seeks asylum, they are in fact applying for a protection visa, in which case they are not actually committing any crime.

It is only a crime if after the entire process the person is denied a protection visa and still chooses to remain in the country.

But nice try. I suggest you learn to read

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 62033 Here Gender:	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #209 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 10:18am Maqqa wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:03am: http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/95documents.htm does it say "arrival" or "enter" on this website? Entry ten times enter eight times and arrival twice. Why didn't you count them yourself if you really want to know.
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