Australian Politics Forum - "Stop the BOATS " ?

NorthOfNorth

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #105 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:49pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:47pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:44pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:40pm:

Grey wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 6:37pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 6:18pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 5:33pm:

Quote:

The term ‘illegal’ may more appropriately apply to those without a valid visa (‘unlawful non-citizens’) who are not seeking protection, such as visa overstayers.

Its inclusive for both have overstay and those without a VISA to start of with

Don't you SEE the difference? If somebody arrives without a visa openly declaring they don't have one, but asking for permission to stay as they are persecuted in their own country, that is not dishonest. Their case should be judged to be a good one or a poor one and then refused or permitted. But asking is not a crime under Australian, (or International) law.

The problem with this argument is that in order to get an airline ticket to Australia and to pass through customs at the point of departure requires evidence of permission to enter Australia. Without it, you can't even get on the plane to come here!

That's true.

Hence the need for those who've had their papers confiscated or dare not risk applying for a passport, to arrive here by other means.

Which means that those who arrive by boat with no papers are illegal immigrants.

No they're not. There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #106 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:53pm

Wow, you really are daft. It is illegal to enter or attempt to enter Australia without proper documentation such as a passport and visa (when one is required). It is a basic part of the Immigration Act. You cannot board a plane to come here without a passport/visa but you can come by boat without papers and in those circumstances, you are deemed (and rightly so) to have entered Australia ILLEGALLY. Get that into your thick skull, okay?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #107 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:55pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:53pm:

Wow, you really are daft. It is illegal to enter or attempt to enter Australia without proper documentation such as a passport and visa (when one is required). It is a basic part of the Immigration Act. You cannot board a plane to come here without a passport/visa but you can come by boat without papers and in those circumstances, you are deemed (and rightly so) to have entered Australia ILLEGALLY. Get that into your thick skull, okay?

Please try to understand Australian law...

There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

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Maqqa

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #108 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:01pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:55pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:53pm:

Wow, you really are daft. It is illegal to enter or attempt to enter Australia without proper documentation such as a passport and visa (when one is required). It is a basic part of the Immigration Act. You cannot board a plane to come here without a passport/visa but you can come by boat without papers and in those circumstances, you are deemed (and rightly so) to have entered Australia ILLEGALLY. Get that into your thick skull, okay?

Please try to understand Australian law...

There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

I've already addressed this issue

It's called deportation

Section 4.4

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #109 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:03pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:01pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:55pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:53pm:

Wow, you really are daft. It is illegal to enter or attempt to enter Australia without proper documentation such as a passport and visa (when one is required). It is a basic part of the Immigration Act. You cannot board a plane to come here without a passport/visa but you can come by boat without papers and in those circumstances, you are deemed (and rightly so) to have entered Australia ILLEGALLY. Get that into your thick skull, okay?

Please try to understand Australian law...

There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

I've already addressed this issue

It's called deportation

Section 4.4

I now ask you to define section 4.4... In its context.

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Maqqa

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #110 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:06pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:03pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:01pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:55pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:53pm:

Wow, you really are daft. It is illegal to enter or attempt to enter Australia without proper documentation such as a passport and visa (when one is required). It is a basic part of the Immigration Act. You cannot board a plane to come here without a passport/visa but you can come by boat without papers and in those circumstances, you are deemed (and rightly so) to have entered Australia ILLEGALLY. Get that into your thick skull, okay?

Please try to understand Australian law...

There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

I've already addressed this issue

It's called deportation

Section 4.4

I now ask you to define section 4.4... In its context.

It says as it reads

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Gimme Gimme Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 765 Gender:	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #111 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:06pm Waiting with baited breath.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #112 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:09pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:06pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:03pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:01pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:55pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:53pm:

Wow, you really are daft. It is illegal to enter or attempt to enter Australia without proper documentation such as a passport and visa (when one is required). It is a basic part of the Immigration Act. You cannot board a plane to come here without a passport/visa but you can come by boat without papers and in those circumstances, you are deemed (and rightly so) to have entered Australia ILLEGALLY. Get that into your thick skull, okay?

Please try to understand Australian law...

There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

I've already addressed this issue

It's called deportation

Section 4.4

I now ask you to define section 4.4... In its context.

It says as it reads

So, no context, country boy?

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Maqqa

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #113 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:10pm

I've proved your reply 76 as wrong

I've proved your reply 83 as wrong

And you continue to make more statements attempting to elicit others to prove you wrong

Try making a correct statement

I've already given you reference to the Immigration Act

Where are the references backing your statements and claims?

You haven't got any

NEXT!!

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #114 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:11pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:10pm:

I've proved your reply 76 as wrong

I've proved your reply 83 as wrong

And you continue to make more statements attempting to elicit others to prove you wrong

Try making a correct statement

I've already given you reference to the Immigration Act

Where are the references backing your statements and claims?

You haven't got any

NEXT!!

Not much into law eh, country boy Grin

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #115 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:12pm neither are you I've shown you references you've got nothing
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #116 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:17pm

Immigration laws as they relate to air travel...

Checking in abroad:
Australia has a universal visa system. This means that all people travelling to Australia (except Australian citizens) require a valid visa or authority to enter Australia. This ensures that the department is able to facilitate the entry of people on arrival.

When you arrive at the check-in counter overseas, you will need to present your travel documents to airline staff. Airline staff will then check your details against immigration data systems to ensure that you have a valid visa or authority to enter Australia.

If you do not hold the correct documentation or visa/authority to enter Australia, the airline may refuse to allow you to board the aeroplane.

Your travel documents may also be checked prior to boarding the plane as an additional border security measure.

Arriving in Australia:
Everyone who arrives at an Australian airport must present their travel documents and Incoming Passenger Card (IPC) to officers in immigration clearance.

Travellers who are not Australian citizens also need to obtain a valid visa or authority to enter Australia. This must be obtained before travelling to Australia. Special provisions apply to most New Zealand citizens, and to people eligible to transit Australia without a visa.

Anyone who arrives without a valid travel document, visa or authority to enter Australia, may be delayed until their identity and claims to enter Australia are checked. If a person does not meet immigration clearance requirements, they may be refused entry to Australia.

See highlighted sections above. In other words, entry into Australia without valid documentation (i.e. passport and visa) is deemed illegal and results in deportation.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #117 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:19pm Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:12pm: neither are you I've shown you references you've got nothing Sorry there country boy, you're wrong... Back to the fields there fella... BTW did you check out what side mum, dad, gran and pop were on in 67?
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Gimme Gimme Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 765 Gender:	Re: "Stop the BOATS " ? Reply #118 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:20pm aaarrr eeeerrr well ya see..aaarrr eeererr..No mention of 'refugees' there. Nope.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "Stop the BOATS " ?
Reply #119 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:22pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:17pm:

Immigration laws as they relate to air travel...

Checking in abroad:
Australia has a universal visa system. This means that all people travelling to Australia (except Australian citizens) require a valid visa or authority to enter Australia. This ensures that the department is able to facilitate the entry of people on arrival.

When you arrive at the check-in counter overseas, you will need to present your travel documents to airline staff. Airline staff will then check your details against immigration data systems to ensure that you have a valid visa or authority to enter Australia.

If you do not hold the correct documentation or visa/authority to enter Australia, the airline may refuse to allow you to board the aeroplane.

Your travel documents may also be checked prior to boarding the plane as an additional border security measure.

Arriving in Australia:
Everyone who arrives at an Australian airport must present their travel documents and Incoming Passenger Card (IPC) to officers in immigration clearance.

Travellers who are not Australian citizens also need to obtain a valid visa or authority to enter Australia. This must be obtained before travelling to Australia. Special provisions apply to most New Zealand citizens, and to people eligible to transit Australia without a visa.

Anyone who arrives without a valid travel document, visa or authority to enter Australia, may be delayed until their identity and claims to enter Australia are checked. If a person does not meet immigration clearance requirements, they may be refused entry to Australia.

See highlighted sections above. In other words, entry into Australia without valid documentation (i.e. passport and visa) is deemed illegal and results in deportation.

Sure, if they can control the entry points (and given that to board a plane in another country also requires identification) but what if you can't control the access point?

Cos that's the problem, see... There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

And you cannot refuse entry to a refugee fleeing persecution.

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