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John Howard's "forbidden" kids overboard photos (Read 14361 times)
chicken_lipsforme
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Re: John Howard's "forbidden" kids overboard
Reply #15 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 2:56pm
 
Doctor Jolly wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 2:29pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:10pm:
Doctor Jolly wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 12:46pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:57am:
Doctor Jolly wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:51am:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:44am:
I think with this incident it always pays to remember why SIEV4 sank in the first place.



Which is ?


The crew and passengers scuttled their own boat.

The boat did that of its own accord.  


Boats don't 'sink of their own accord'.
They do sink however once the sea cocks are opened.



The lying rodent would be laughing if he saw this post.  

Boats that look like the one in the photo sink all the time. I remember getting a ferry from Bali to Java and the sea was as calm as anything yet the boat was rocking like a mad-man. I made sure I was above deck for that trip!

This guys arent exactly chartering the tassy ferry for these journeys!

I'd go out on a limb here and say that once the motor stopped, the bilge pump stopped, and the leaky boat demise was a lock.


And for some reason they seem to sink when our naval ships come within hailing distance.
Funny that.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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gizmo_2655
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Re: John Howard's "forbidden" kids overboard
Reply #16 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 3:11pm
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 2:56pm:
Doctor Jolly wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 2:29pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:10pm:
Doctor Jolly wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 12:46pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:57am:
Doctor Jolly wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:51am:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:44am:
I think with this incident it always pays to remember why SIEV4 sank in the first place.



Which is ?


The crew and passengers scuttled their own boat.

The boat did that of its own accord.  


Boats don't 'sink of their own accord'.
They do sink however once the sea cocks are opened.



The lying rodent would be laughing if he saw this post.  

Boats that look like the one in the photo sink all the time. I remember getting a ferry from Bali to Java and the sea was as calm as anything yet the boat was rocking like a mad-man. I made sure I was above deck for that trip!

This guys arent exactly chartering the tassy ferry for these journeys!

I'd go out on a limb here and say that once the motor stopped, the bilge pump stopped, and the leaky boat demise was a lock.


And for some reason they seem to sink when our naval ships come within hailing distance.
Funny that.


Can you think of a better way to get of your 'leaky boat' onto something with toilets AND food????
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philperth2010
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Re: John Howard's "forbidden" kids overboard
Reply #17 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 3:31pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 2:52pm:
An angry Howard government, forced in the end to accept HMAS Adelaide taking the disabled and sinking SIEV 4 into tow back towards Christmas Island, ordered that the 223 people including 116 women and children be kept on board their unseaworthy vessel during a 24 hour tow. This criminally irresponsible order contradicted every safety of life at sea principle our naval officers ever learned, but such was the power of politics over navy ethics that the order was carried out without question. As Commander Banks testified, a primary mission aim at this stage was to keep the people on their boat - to take them off before their boat sank would have been mission failure. (Certain Maritime Incident inquiry Hansard pages 180-2, 186-7).

The boat finally foundered on 8 October with only an hours warning. In a dangerous emergency rescue from the sea, it is a miracle that nobody drowned. The most important dimension of the "Certain Maritime Incident", just as important as the cynical falsification of rescue photographs - has been curiously ignored by almost every commentator. For 24 hours, the Operation Relex command were so contemptuous of their responsibility for the lives of these people that Banks was required to keep them on board a wrecked and unseaworthy vessel, instead of prudently moving them to the Adelaide. The lack of concern for human life is significant, in the light of what happened with SIEV-X twelve days later.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/26/1030053029931.html

Senators were unable to question the NORCOM command on its crucial decisions not to order a SOLAS-oriented air surveillance for SIEV-X on 19 or 20 October. Authors of the documents sent in by Senator Hill on 4 July have not been examined in public hearings of the Committee. Initially promised testimony by Admiral Raydon Gates, who had reviewed all the intelligence and has now replaced Admiral Smith as Chief of Navy, was blocked by Senator Hill despite repeated Committee requests for him to appear.



The SIEV 4 sank because it was under tow against advise.....A day after Howard Ministers claimed children had been thrown overboard....the photos tendered by Reith as proof where taken from this incident a day after the reported children overboard incident.....Peter Reith knew the photo's where taken the day after the reported incident and removed the time stamp from the photo's to conceal the deceit of the Howard Government.....The Liberal faithful are still trying to blame asylum seekers for Howards lies!!!

Angry
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Doctor Jolly
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Re: John Howard's "forbidden" kids overboard
Reply #18 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 3:31pm
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 2:56pm:
Doctor Jolly wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 2:29pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:10pm:
Doctor Jolly wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 12:46pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:57am:
Doctor Jolly wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:51am:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:44am:
I think with this incident it always pays to remember why SIEV4 sank in the first place.



Which is ?


The crew and passengers scuttled their own boat.

The boat did that of its own accord.  


Boats don't 'sink of their own accord'.
They do sink however once the sea cocks are opened.



The lying rodent would be laughing if he saw this post.  

Boats that look like the one in the photo sink all the time. I remember getting a ferry from Bali to Java and the sea was as calm as anything yet the boat was rocking like a mad-man. I made sure I was above deck for that trip!

This guys arent exactly chartering the tassy ferry for these journeys!

I'd go out on a limb here and say that once the motor stopped, the bilge pump stopped, and the leaky boat demise was a lock.


And for some reason they seem to sink when our naval ships come within hailing distance.
Funny that.


You should pick up an indonesian newspaper every now and again. Ferry "disasters" happen about every 3 days!
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Gimme Gimme
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Re: John Howard's "forbidden" kids overboard photos
Reply #19 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 3:56pm
 
'An angry Howard government, forced in the end to accept HMAS Adelaide taking the disabled and sinking SIEV 4 into tow back towards Christmas Island, ordered that the 223 people including 116 women and children be kept on board their unseaworthy vessel during a 24 hour tow. This criminally irresponsible order contradicted every safety of life at sea principle our naval officers ever learned,'

THIS is what Tony and his ugly anti immigrant ministers want? To tow leaky boats back to Indonesia to be whipped?

SHAME on you Tony Abbott!!! YOU are such a LYING HYPOCRITE!!!!

SHAME!!!!!! Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry

I'm sure his racist anti Islam minister Cory Bernardi will be delighted to see refuges in leaky boats towed back to Indonesia to be tortured and whipped..He's bringing that extremist anti Islam hate speech politician to Australian shores curtesy of the Liberal Party racists right?

OMG..GOD help us!! Shocked
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'If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace.' &&John Lennon
 
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Gimme Gimme
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Re: John Howard's "forbidden" kids overboard photos
Reply #20 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 1:16am
 
'The SIEV 4 sank because it was under tow against advise.....A day after Howard Ministers claimed children had been thrown overboard....the photos tendered by Reith as proof where taken from this incident a day after the reported children overboard incident.....Peter Reith knew the photo's where taken the day after the reported incident and removed the time stamp from the photo's to conceal the deceit of the Howard Government.....The Liberal faithful are still trying to blame asylum seekers for Howards lies!!!'

EXACTLY!  Angry
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'If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace.' &&John Lennon
 
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Gimme Gimme
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Re: John Howard's "forbidden" kids overboard photos
Reply #21 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 4:16pm
 
This should NEVER be forgotten.

Howard LIED ...and children DIED.
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'If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace.' &&John Lennon
 
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How the 'children overboard' HOWARD lie developed
Reply #22 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 12:09pm
 
How the 'children overboard' lie developed

Wednesday, March 6, 2002 - 11:00
BY ALISON DELLIT

On October 7, a fishing boat overloaded with desperate asylum seekers encountered the HMAS Adelaide north of Christmas Island. The warship fired warning shots to stop the boat from moving into Australian waters. Frightened by the shots, some people jumped into the water. Asylum seekers held children in the air to alert the navy that there were children on board. One parent held a child over the side of the boat so it could defecate. A confused navy communication about threats to throw a child overboard was sent to immigration minister Philip Ruddock. Based on this, Ruddock declared that children had been thrown overboard. This is what ensued:

October 8 — At 9am, a navy report on the incident, which does not mention children being thrown overboard, is circulated to Prime Minister John Howard, defence minister Peter Reith, immigration minister Philip Ruddock and other ministers. Later in the day, Howard condemned the "sickening behaviour" by asylum seekers of throwing children overboard.

The boat sank. Ruddock accused asylum seekers of destroying it deliberately. No evidence was produced to substantiate this allegation. A rescue operation by the HMAS Adelaide was photographed.

October 9 — The photographs of the sinking ship and frightened refugees in the water are emailed to Reith's senior staff.

October 10 — The prime minister's department was advised that there was no evidence that children were thrown overboard. HMAS Adelaide's Commander Banks reported to his superiors that no children had been thrown into the water. Banks also took statutory declarations from his crew to that effect.

Reith released two close-up pictures taken on October 8 of children in the water, but do not show the sinking ship. He told the media that they were taken on October 7 are of children who had been thrown overboard.

October 11 — Reith and his advisers were warned by the increasingly nervous military brass that the pictures did not show children who had been thrown overboard. Reith then told the media that there was also a video of the incident, and repeats the claim that children were thrown overboard.

October 31 — Reith was told by Brigadier Silverstone that the video does not indicate that children were thrown in the water. Reith replied, "Well, we'd better not see the video".

November 7 — Acting defence force head Angus Houston told Reith that there is no evidence at all that children were thrown into the sea.

People smuggling task force head Jane Halton was told that the photographs have been misrepresented and she called Howard's chief adviser Miles Jordana. Jordana told Halton that he knew.

Jordana discovered that the Office of National Assessments report, which told Howard he was right about children being thrown overboard, was based on media reports of government statements and reported this to Howard.

Howard and Reith conferred on the phone, and both later claimed that Reith did not tell Howard that the allegations of children being thrown overboard were false.

November 8 — Howard addressed the National Press Club and yet again claimed that children had been thrown into the water. He cited the discredited ONA report as evidence. By this stage his key advisors, Reith and his office staff all knew that he was presenting false information.

Election propaganda, depicting Howard with fists clenched and the slogan, "We decide who comes to this country", was distributed to all voters in marginal seats. Full-page newspaper ads with the same image and words were published in all major newspapers.

November 10 — The Coalition parties won the federal election with an increased majority.
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'If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace.' &&John Lennon
 
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Gimme Gimme
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Re: How the 'children overboard' HOWARD lie developed
Reply #23 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 1:10am
 
NEVER forget the HOWARD LIES..This man is a murderer..He LIED about the children overboard and he LIED about WMD.

Countless thousands of innocent men women and children are now dead because of John Howard and the Liberal Party!!! Cry

SHAME Howard..SHAME!! Angry
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'If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace.' &&John Lennon
 
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Gimme Gimme
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Re: How the 'children overboard' HOWARD lie developed
Reply #24 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 4:22pm
 
LEST WE FORGET..That Howard LIED and children DIED
Cry
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'If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace.' &&John Lennon
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: How the 'children overboard' HOWARD lie developed
Reply #25 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 4:28pm
 
Gimme Gimme wrote on Sep 23rd, 2011 at 4:22pm:
LEST WE FORGET..That Howard LIED and children DIED
Cry



More insightful political commentary from one of the idiots.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: How the 'children overboard' HOWARD lie developed
Reply #26 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 4:32pm
 
Gimme Gimme wrote on Sep 23rd, 2011 at 4:31pm:
Well..Pointing out that children DIED at the hands of a Prime Minister is hardly idiocy dear.

Howard is a murderer..millions DEAD since his illegal war on innocents too.

How can you justify a murderer? Sad

Oh..that's right..You're a righty.



Umm which children????
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Re: How the 'children overboard' HOWARD lie developed
Reply #27 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 4:33pm
 
this is the kinf of blatant stupidity I was referring to earlier.  it is fine to debate from opposite points of view. it is another entirely to invent things this this idiot.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Gimme Gimme
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Re: How the 'children overboard' HOWARD lie developed
Reply #28 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 4:41pm
 
LEST WE FORGET..That Howard LIED and children DIED
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'If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace.' &&John Lennon
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: How the 'children overboard' HOWARD lie developed
Reply #29 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 4:42pm
 
Gimme Gimme wrote on Sep 23rd, 2011 at 4:41pm:
LEST WE FORGET..That Howard LIED and children DIED



WHAT Children???? There were NO deaths involved in the children overboard thing...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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