Australian Politics Forum - Arctic Ice continues to shrink

Doctor Jolly

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #210 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:56am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:58pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 3:46pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 3:25pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 2:48pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 2:44pm:

I like myths.
Give us some more climate change myths Dr Jolly, as you seem to set store by such things.
One of my all time favourite myths was the one peddled by the UN in 2008 about the 50,000 climate change refugees due to arrive in Australia by 2010, from sinking Pacific islands.
That set the crash helmet brigade off then I remember.
I believe we are still waiting for even just one island to sink? Roll Eyes

Now you are just making stuff up.

Grin

Just like you did with your earlier list, you mean???

No, that list is from that skeptic site that muso often quotes. The skeptic's skeptic.

Which doesn't mean it's not made up.....

Hmmm, Who to believe. 97% of scientists actively working in the field, or some anonymous internet poster called chicken something.

Tough choice.
Grin

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #211 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:59am

Emma wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 2:03am:

so gizvoid, you don't believe ?? or is it understand??? the graph supplied by MOTR?
And Lips- suck is at it again too.

What IS your problem?? Do you think YOU represent all humans, and you don't think you've done anything wrong??

Talk about being personally paranoid about global issues. Roll Eyes

ITS OK - we aren't blaming little ol' you.

Yes I do (mostly) 'believe' and understand the graph....

What does that have to do with my challenging Dr Jolly over HIS post???

The Ice caps grow and shrink on a seasonal basis.....my disbelieve has to do with mankind's input into the current changes in the ice sheets...You see??

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #212 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:02am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:56am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:58pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 3:46pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 3:25pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 2:48pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 2:44pm:

I like myths.
Give us some more climate change myths Dr Jolly, as you seem to set store by such things.
One of my all time favourite myths was the one peddled by the UN in 2008 about the 50,000 climate change refugees due to arrive in Australia by 2010, from sinking Pacific islands.
That set the crash helmet brigade off then I remember.
I believe we are still waiting for even just one island to sink? Roll Eyes

Now you are just making stuff up.

Grin

Just like you did with your earlier list, you mean???

No, that list is from that skeptic site that muso often quotes. The skeptic's skeptic.

Which doesn't mean it's not made up.....

Hmmm, Who to believe. 97% of scientists actively working in the field, or some anonymous internet poster called chicken something.

Tough choice.
Grin

Why a tough choice?
You would have demonstrated years ago a preference for believing doomsday tales, so you came to boards long ago with your mind made up on the subject.
You better get your red crash helmet ready, the skies falling.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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2003.

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Emma

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #213 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 9:04pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:59am:

Emma wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 2:03am:

so gizvoid, you don't believe ?? or is it understand??? the graph supplied by MOTR?
And Lips- suck is at it again too.

What IS your problem?? Do you think YOU represent all humans, and you don't think you've done anything wrong??

Talk about being personally paranoid about global issues. Roll Eyes

ITS OK - we aren't blaming little ol' you.

Yes I do (mostly) 'believe' and understand the graph....

What does that have to do with my challenging Dr Jolly over HIS post???

The Ice caps grow and shrink on a seasonal basis.....my disbelieve has to do with mankind's input into the current changes in the ice sheets...You see??

Well obviously I see thats your issue - 'cos it's in the post I made above.
Do you think YOU represent all humans, and you don't think you've done anything wrong??

BUT THE GRAPH shows, not seasonal declines and increases......but 30 yrs of ice mass reduction.Can't dismiss it as 'seasonal change.!! No way.
Were THAT the case.... the long sought-after Northern Passage would have been traversed generations ago.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #214 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 10:59am

Emma wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:59am:

Emma wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 2:03am:

so gizvoid, you don't believe ?? or is it understand??? the graph supplied by MOTR?
And Lips- suck is at it again too.

What IS your problem?? Do you think YOU represent all humans, and you don't think you've done anything wrong??

Talk about being personally paranoid about global issues. Roll Eyes

ITS OK - we aren't blaming little ol' you.

Yes I do (mostly) 'believe' and understand the graph....

What does that have to do with my challenging Dr Jolly over HIS post???

The Ice caps grow and shrink on a seasonal basis.....my disbelieve has to do with mankind's input into the current changes in the ice sheets...You see??

Well obviously I see thats your issue - 'cos it's in the post I made above.
Do you think YOU represent all humans, and you don't think you've done anything wrong??

BUT THE GRAPH shows, not seasonal declines and increases......but 30 yrs of ice mass reduction.Can't dismiss it as 'seasonal change.!! No way.
Were THAT the case.... the long sought-after Northern Passage would have been traversed generations ago.

And a very similar reduction happened before, in about 900 AD to 1300 AD.....When the ice reltreated so far it was possible to farm in Greenland, and sail from Greenland to Newfoundland, and settle there...

If you mean the NorthWest Passage, then it's already been found....by the Vikings, and it was commonly travelled up until the Little Ice Age began and the ice sheets grew.....now, they are shrinking again....Still a cyclic thing, much like the variations in the normal seasonal shifts (which aren't always the same)...

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« Last Edit: Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:08am by gizmo_2655 »

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #215 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:09am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 10:59am:

Emma wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:59am:

Emma wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 2:03am:

so gizvoid, you don't believe ?? or is it understand??? the graph supplied by MOTR?
And Lips- suck is at it again too.

What IS your problem?? Do you think YOU represent all humans, and you don't think you've done anything wrong??

Talk about being personally paranoid about global issues. Roll Eyes

ITS OK - we aren't blaming little ol' you.

Yes I do (mostly) 'believe' and understand the graph....

What does that have to do with my challenging Dr Jolly over HIS post???

The Ice caps grow and shrink on a seasonal basis.....my disbelieve has to do with mankind's input into the current changes in the ice sheets...You see??

Well obviously I see thats your issue - 'cos it's in the post I made above.
Do you think YOU represent all humans, and you don't think you've done anything wrong??

BUT THE GRAPH shows, not seasonal declines and increases......but 30 yrs of ice mass reduction.Can't dismiss it as 'seasonal change.!! No way.
Were THAT the case.... the long sought-after Northern Passage would have been traversed generations ago.

And a very similar reduction happened before, in about 900 AD to 1300 AD.....When the ice reltreated so far it was possible to farm in Greenland, and sail from Greenland to Newfoundland, and settle there...

And I don't think Eric the Red and his crew of Norsemen sailed to Greenland in his dragon boat from Denmark, wearing a shiny red plastic crash helmet either.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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Doctor Jolly Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3808	Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink Reply #216 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:20am Ok, time to own up, Which ones of you deniers is on the take ? And of those who arent, who is too stupid not to be sending in requests for "funding" ?
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BatteriesNotIncluded

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people died for this!

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #217 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 6:01pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:59am:

Emma wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 2:03am:

so gizvoid, you don't believe ?? or is it understand??? the graph supplied by MOTR?
And Lips- suck is at it again too.

What IS your problem?? Do you think YOU represent all humans, and you don't think you've done anything wrong??

Talk about being personally paranoid about global issues. Roll Eyes

ITS OK - we aren't blaming little ol' you.

Yes I do (mostly) 'believe' and understand the graph....

What does that have to do with my challenging Dr Jolly over HIS post???

The Ice caps grow and shrink on a seasonal basis.....my disbelieve has to do with mankind's input into the current changes in the ice sheets...You see??

RATES OF CHANGE: HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU!

????????????????????????????

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Emma

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #218 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 9:39pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 10:59am:

Emma wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

[quote author=343A293E3C0C61656666530 link=1316224166/211#211 date=1329256754][quote author=202B262B242F79797B7B0A332B22252564294A0 link=1316224166/207#207 date=1329235431]so gizvoid, you don't believe ?? or is it understand??? the graph supplied by MOTR?
And Lips- suck is at it again too.

What IS your problem??

And a very similar reduction happened before, in about 900 AD to 1300 AD
.....When the ice reltreated so far it was possible to farm in Greenland, and sail from Greenland to Newfoundland, and settle there...

If you mean the NorthWest Passage, then it's already been found....by the Vikings, and it was commonly travelled up until the Little Ice Age began and the ice sheets grew.....now, they are shrinking again....Still a cyclic thing, much like the variations in the normal seasonal shifts (which aren't always the same)...

Like Deathray says Roll Eyes

the RATE of CHANGE. Look at the time scale.!!! You are talking four centuries, the graph STARTS in

1980.!!!!!

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #219 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 9:43pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 6:01pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:59am:

Emma wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 2:03am:

so gizvoid, you don't believe ?? or is it understand??? the graph supplied by MOTR?
And Lips- suck is at it again too.

What IS your problem?? Do you think YOU represent all humans, and you don't think you've done anything wrong??

Talk about being personally paranoid about global issues. Roll Eyes

ITS OK - we aren't blaming little ol' you.

Yes I do (mostly) 'believe' and understand the graph....

What does that have to do with my challenging Dr Jolly over HIS post???

The Ice caps grow and shrink on a seasonal basis.....my disbelieve has to do with mankind's input into the current changes in the ice sheets...You see??

RATES OF CHANGE: HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU!

????????????????????????????

You have to keep telling me UP UNTIL YOU SAY WHAT THE RATES IS NOW, COMPARED TO PREVIOUSLY.......Until you're prepared to do that, shut up and smoke some more crack with your mummy/auntie....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #220 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 9:46pm

Emma wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 9:39pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 10:59am:

Emma wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

[quote author=343A293E3C0C61656666530 link=1316224166/211#211 date=1329256754][quote author=202B262B242F79797B7B0A332B22252564294A0 link=1316224166/207#207 date=1329235431]so gizvoid, you don't believe ?? or is it understand??? the graph supplied by MOTR?
And Lips- suck is at it again too.

What IS your problem??

And a very similar reduction happened before, in about 900 AD to 1300 AD
.....When the ice reltreated so far it was possible to farm in Greenland, and sail from Greenland to Newfoundland, and settle there...

If you mean the NorthWest Passage, then it's already been found....by the Vikings, and it was commonly travelled up until the Little Ice Age began and the ice sheets grew.....now, they are shrinking again....Still a cyclic thing, much like the variations in the normal seasonal shifts (which aren't always the same)...

Like Deathray says Roll Eyes

the RATE of CHANGE. Look at the time scale.!!! You are talking four centuries, the graph STARTS in

1980.!!!!!

Actually I'm not talking about four centuries...four centuries is the period BETWEEN the shrinkage in the ice sheet and the regrowth of the ice sheet...not how long it took to shrink, so the rate of change is conjecture....

Tell me how long the ice sheet took to shrink in the 900's and prove to me that it was slower than the rate since the 1980's....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Emma

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #221 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 10:12pm

Hey Gizvoid, you're the one denying it. You and your conjecture of the time it took in 900-1300AD to shrink- AND REGROW is simply a nonsense.

There were not billions upon billions of people, animals, factories, airtravel ,,, and the list goes on... in THOSE DAYS.

YOUR argument is simply untenable.

There CAN BE NO valid comparison, as you'd like, because the facts are NOT the same.

You CANNOT in all honesty suggest this..if you grasp this.... so you are just a s..,..stirrer. Yeah. We know.!! Tongue

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink Reply #222 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 10:23pm Ah well such is life....
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #223 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 10:27pm

Emma wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 10:12pm:

Hey Gizvoid, you're the one denying it. You and your conjecture of the time it took in 900-1300AD to shrink- AND REGROW is simply a nonsense.

There were not billions upon billions of people, animals, factories, airtravel ,,, and the list goes on... in THOSE DAYS.

YOUR argument is simply untenable.

There CAN BE NO valid comparison, as you'd like, because the facts are NOT the same.

You CANNOT in all honesty suggest this..if you grasp this.... so you are just a s..,..stirrer. Yeah. We know.!! Tongue

How is it nonsense??.....Don't you expect the Arctic to recover at some point in the future?? (either through natural means or by 'reduction of Anthropogenic C02).

However, in order to claim my points about the time line for previous Arctic melts are 'conjecture', you need to:
A) Prove that mankind alone is responsible (which you can't), or
B) Prove that the rate of change NOW is higher than it has been in the past (which, so far, none of you have been able/willing to do)...

You're are using the warmist argument as the basis for 'proving' warmist argument....That's circular reasoning ( of the Biblical sort...i.e the Bible proves God exists, because the Bible says so)...

Try refuting my position that the Arctic ice lose is a natural and cyclic happening, without using 'because there's more people now' as the entire explanation...
Tell me how much greater the 'rate of change' is now, compared to 880 ad to 950 ad.....one times, two times, five times etc...(with comparative figures......maybe tonnes of ice lost per year/decade then and now?)

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Emma

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #224 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:21pm

thanks for your confidence in my ability to answer the questions, but sorry, I don't have data from 900AD. Cheesy

Maybe some scientist somewhere does.

That's circular reasoning ( of the Biblical sort...i.e the Bible proves God exists, because the Bible says so)... - GVOID

Oh? ah yes .. like your 'cyclical' argument,
it happened before, so it will happen again. That's it in a short sentence isn't it?
YOUR ARGUMENT.? Nothing more nothing less.

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