Australian Politics Forum - Arctic Ice continues to shrink

gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #135 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 2:20pm

MOTR wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 1:24pm:

We've been through this. Huang et al. Conclude global temperatures were cooler during the MWP than now. If regions in the northern hemisphere were as warm as today the southern hemisphere must have been cooler.

Again..no that's not quite what they concluded...they concluded that the MWP temps were at or slightly below the 'base-line' which at the time was the 1990 temps (hottest decade on record, up until then)...which translates as....of dear, the warming isn't as great as we've been saying....

Aside from that....it blew a hole right through the concept that 20th century warming was 'unprecedented'......It'd happened before, at least once (and probably twice) within written human history....

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #136 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 2:34pm

Of course that's not the fun bit...
The 'fun' or ironic bit is listening to AGW supporters whine about Creationists refusing to accept 'scientific evidence' (like fossils, carbon dating, theoretical physics and the 'Big Bang' theory).....and then doing precisely the same thing (refusing to accept scientific theory) simply because it contradicts their belief structure.....

Now THAT is pure gold.....

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #137 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 3:20pm

And further on the subject, allow me to explain..

I've seen some incredibly stupid and unscientific statements made by pro-warming bloggers (and a few made by anti-warming bloggers too)....

One of the best was by a 'warmist' who said he had to log off (after commiting libel against a sceptic) because in his words 'it takes a lot of training to raise a child who will need to live in a 'warming world'.....Which is a complete load of twaddle...after all the blogger's parents managed it, as did his grandparents...(without any whiney complaints about the causes, incidently).....

Despite all the over emotional BS that exists.....a 'warming' of 1 or 2 degress Celcius will make almost NO difference to human existence....our children or grandchildren will barely notice....it'd take an increase of 15 or 20 degrees before there's any significant impact on our (human) life....

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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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MOTR

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #138 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 4:07pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 2:15pm:

MOTR wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 1:24pm:

We've been through this. Huang et al. Conclude global temperatures were cooler during the MWP than now. If regions in the northern hemisphere were as warm as today the southern hemisphere must have been cooler.

Yes, but not as cool as you want to make out...and they also concluded that the rise in temperature was worldwide...

Huang and Pollack did NOT state (in the original paper) that only Northern Europe was the only place affected....no they state that ALL continents were affected...Even if the top temps were a little 'off', they weren't as low as Mann's Hockey Stick claimed...

So, basically....the MWP AND the LIA did in fact exist, worldwide.....a 1/2 degree difference between 950AD-1250AD and 2008 is small potatoes on the scale of things...

It STILL contradicts the Mann assertion that the temperatures never varied for over 2000 years and the 'suddenly' skyrocketed after 1880 or 1900

Huang et al, is just one reconstruction using bore hole
proxies. There are numerous other proxies that show lower global temperatures during the MWP.

Since the hockey stick paper was published in 1998, there have been a number of proxy studies analysing a variety of different sources including corals, stalagmites, tree rings, boreholes and ice cores. They all confirm the original hockey stick conclusion: the 20th century is the warmest in the last 1000 years and that warming was most dramatic after 1920.

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn11648/dn11648-2_726.jpg

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MOTR

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #139 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 4:41pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 3:20pm:

And further on the subject, allow me to explain..

I've seen some incredibly stupid and unscientific statements made by pro-warming bloggers (and a few made by anti-warming bloggers too)....

One of the best was by a 'warmist' who said he had to log off (after commiting libel against a sceptic) because in his words 'it takes a lot of training to raise a child who will need to live in a 'warming world'.....Which is a complete load of twaddle...after all the blogger's parents managed it, as did his grandparents...(without any whiney complaints about the causes, incidently).....

Despite all the over emotional BS that exists.....a 'warming' of 1 or 2 degress Celcius will make almost NO difference to human existence....our children or grandchildren will barely notice....it'd take an increase of 15 or 20 degrees before there's any significant impact on our (human) life....

We are pretty much committed to an increase of 2C. If it's business as usual it's looking more like 4 to 6C. I'll take your last sentence as a joke. 2C is dangerous, 4C and we are definitely hitting tipping points.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #140 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 4:57pm

MOTR wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 4:41pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 3:20pm:

And further on the subject, allow me to explain..

I've seen some incredibly stupid and unscientific statements made by pro-warming bloggers (and a few made by anti-warming bloggers too)....

One of the best was by a 'warmist' who said he had to log off (after commiting libel against a sceptic) because in his words 'it takes a lot of training to raise a child who will need to live in a 'warming world'.....Which is a complete load of twaddle...after all the blogger's parents managed it, as did his grandparents...(without any whiney complaints about the causes, incidently).....

Despite all the over emotional BS that exists.....a 'warming' of 1 or 2 degress Celcius will make almost NO difference to human existence....our children or grandchildren will barely notice....it'd take an increase of 15 or 20 degrees before there's any significant impact on our (human) life....

We are pretty much committed to an increase of 2C. If it's business as usual it's looking more like 4 to 6C. I'll take your last sentence as a joke. 2C is dangerous, 4C and we are definitely hitting tipping points.

Horse poo....2C isn't even worth worrying about...it simply takes us back to the temp human's evolved in....even 4C isn't all that 'dangerous'.....all that it requires is less clothing and a minor 'relocation' of living areas....

THAT is the whole problem....we aren't all that unadaptable.......

In all seriousness...do YOU really think that the difference between 34C and 36C in summer, is really that 'bad'???

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« Last Edit: Dec 21^st, 2011 at 5:03pm by gizmo_2655 »

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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MOTR

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #141 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 6:10pm

Droughts, flooding, the spread of mosquitos-born diseases, desertification, loss of biodiversity, ocean acidification, decline in rice yields, decline in global phytoplankton, declining fish populations, decreasing human water supplies. Why risk all these things?

2C might not sound a lot to you, but scientific research points to some very costly outcomes.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #142 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 6:59pm

MOTR wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 6:10pm:

Droughts, flooding, the spread of mosquitos-born diseases, desertification, loss of biodiversity, ocean acidification, decline in rice yields, decline in global phytoplankton, declining fish populations, decreasing human water supplies. Why risk all these things?

2C might not sound a lot to you, but scientific research points to some very costly outcomes.

Aliens landing, and the Sun going out...dogs and cats living together...which other frightening things can we mention???...( Hint...there's no proof of any of the 'other' crap you mentioned...so why not panic about the stars going out???)

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #143 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 7:14pm

I'll make this fairly straight forward for you...

I'm nearly a half a century old..And I've heard most of the 'end of the world' scenarios.....
And pretty much the only thing they have in common is that NONE of them have ever come even close to being true....

So what's my incentive to believe this latest one (AGW)????

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #144 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 8:11pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 4:57pm:

MOTR wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 4:41pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 3:20pm:

And further on the subject, allow me to explain..

I've seen some incredibly stupid and unscientific statements made by pro-warming bloggers (and a few made by anti-warming bloggers too)....

One of the best was by a 'warmist' who said he had to log off (after commiting libel against a sceptic) because in his words 'it takes a lot of training to raise a child who will need to live in a 'warming world'.....Which is a complete load of twaddle...after all the blogger's parents managed it, as did his grandparents...(without any whiney complaints about the causes, incidently).....

Despite all the over emotional BS that exists.....a 'warming' of 1 or 2 degress Celcius will make almost NO difference to human existence....our children or grandchildren will barely notice....it'd take an increase of 15 or 20 degrees before there's any significant impact on our (human) life....

We are pretty much committed to an increase of 2C. If it's business as usual it's looking more like 4 to 6C. I'll take your last sentence as a joke. 2C is dangerous, 4C and we are definitely hitting tipping points.

Horse poo....2C isn't even worth worrying about...it simply takes us back to the temp human's evolved in....even 4C isn't all that 'dangerous'.....all that it requires is less clothing and a minor 'relocation' of living areas....

THAT is the whole problem....we aren't all that unadaptable.......

In all seriousness...do YOU really think that the difference between 34C and 36C in summer, is really that 'bad'???

Gizmo is full of shite: let's do endless circles around the phrase RATES OF CHANGE!!!
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MOTR

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #145 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 8:12pm

There has never been this sort of consensus within the scientific community. Back in the 1970s there were some scientists suggesting that we might be facing another ice age. This was not a consensus position. Peterson (2008) conducted a survey of 68 scientific studies on "global cooling" written between 1965 and 1979. 10% of these studies predicted cooling, 28% did not take a stance, while 62% predicted warming. 30 years on and with more reliable data, 97% of climate scientists support the concept of anthropogenic global warming.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #146 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 8:13pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 7:14pm:

I'll make this fairly straight forward for you...

I'm nearly a half a century old..And I've heard most of the 'end of the world' scenarios.....
And pretty much the only thing they have in common is that NONE of them have ever come even close to being true....

So what's my incentive to believe this latest one (AGW)????

NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK SO THAT IS WHY THERE IS NO INCENTIVE FOR YOU TO BELIEVE!!

IF YOU CARED FOR YOUR CHILDRENS CHILDRENS CHILDREN THEN SOMEONE ON THIS FORUM MIGHT CARE WHAT YOU THINK BUT, I DARE SAY, NOT UNTIL!

Wink

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #147 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 9:29pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 8:13pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 7:14pm:

I'll make this fairly straight forward for you...

I'm nearly a half a century old..And I've heard most of the 'end of the world' scenarios.....
And pretty much the only thing they have in common is that NONE of them have ever come even close to being true....

So what's my incentive to believe this latest one (AGW)????

NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK SO THAT IS WHY THERE IS NO INCENTIVE FOR YOU TO BELIEVE!!

IF YOU CARED FOR YOUR CHILDRENS CHILDRENS CHILDREN THEN SOMEONE ON THIS FORUM MIGHT CARE WHAT YOU THINK BUT, I DARE SAY, NOT UNTIL!

Wink

Well I have children....and I'm pretty sure they, and their children can adapt to anything that comes up....
And if my children's grandchildren can't adapt to what ever is going to happen....then I'll disown them...for being as stupid as the current crop of warmists...(like YOU Horse...)

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink
Reply #148 - Dec 22^nd, 2011 at 9:54am

MOTR wrote on Dec 21^st, 2011 at 6:10pm:

Droughts, flooding, the spread of mosquitos-born diseases, desertification, loss of biodiversity, ocean acidification, decline in rice yields, decline in global phytoplankton, declining fish populations, decreasing human water supplies. Why risk all these things?

You left out the return of Godzilla and the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Arctic Ice continues to shrink Reply #149 - Dec 22^nd, 2011 at 10:12am You are spectacularly ignorant.
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