Australian Politics Forum - Atheists are ..

muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Atheists are .. Reply #15 - Aug 9^th, 2011 at 7:50am Yadda is bandwidth challenged, I think. There will be a transcript. I'll let you know when it's up.
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Yadda

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #16 - Aug 9^th, 2011 at 2:03pm

Sappho wrote on Aug 8^th, 2011 at 4:30pm:

Quote:

An Evening With John Lennox

Mathematician, philosopher of science, and Christian, John Lennox of Oxford University has made a name for himself debating Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Peter Singer on the compatibility of religion and science. Recorded in front of an audience at Sydney's Roseville College in conversation with Rachael Kohn, Lennox covers a range of topics in the religion and science debate. These include the 'evidence for faith', his experiences 'behind the Iron Curtain' in Communist Russia, and his disagreement with Singer's 'solution' to the problem of pain. (Held in conjunction with the Centre for Public Christianity).

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/spiritofthings/stories/2011/3283542.htm

You don't have to miss it Yadda, or any Radio National program for that matter. They are available on line to listen to or down load. Often there is a transcript also, but not always.

Thanks for the link Sappho.

The d/l mp3 is +25 mb.

I started a download, my browser showed +5 hours [i'm on dialup, live semi rural] to complete the download.

So i stopped it.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sappho

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #17 - Aug 9^th, 2011 at 8:21pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 9^th, 2011 at 2:03pm:

Sappho wrote on Aug 8^th, 2011 at 4:30pm:

Quote:

An Evening With John Lennox

Mathematician, philosopher of science, and Christian, John Lennox of Oxford University has made a name for himself debating Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Peter Singer on the compatibility of religion and science. Recorded in front of an audience at Sydney's Roseville College in conversation with Rachael Kohn, Lennox covers a range of topics in the religion and science debate. These include the 'evidence for faith', his experiences 'behind the Iron Curtain' in Communist Russia, and his disagreement with Singer's 'solution' to the problem of pain. (Held in conjunction with the Centre for Public Christianity).

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/spiritofthings/stories/2011/3283542.htm

You don't have to miss it Yadda, or any Radio National program for that matter. They are available on line to listen to or down load. Often there is a transcript also, but not always.

Thanks for the link Sappho.

The d/l mp3 is +25 mb.

I started a download, my browser showed +5 hours [i'm on dialup, live semi rural] to complete the download.

So i stopped it.

You don't have to download it unless you want to keep it. Just select 'listen now' and it will bring up your media player and begin playing.

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"Love is a cunning weaver of fantasies and fables."

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Atheists are .. Reply #18 - Aug 10^th, 2011 at 8:01am Sappho wrote on Aug 9^th, 2011 at 8:21pm: You don't have to download it unless you want to keep it. Just select 'listen now' and it will bring up your media player and begin playing. Not on 56k dialup, it won't.
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Yadda

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #19 - Aug 10^th, 2011 at 10:38am

muso wrote on Aug 10^th, 2011 at 8:01am:

Sappho wrote on Aug 9^th, 2011 at 8:21pm:

You don't have to download it unless you want to keep it. Just select 'listen now' and it will bring up your media player and begin playing.

Not on 56k dialup, it won't.

muso is correct Sappho.

Not on 56k dialup, it won't. Grin

Not on 19.6 kb/s, 21 kb/s, or 24 kb/s, dialup, it won't.

I have 24 kb/s, today.

Ooooaaar!

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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muso

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #20 - Aug 11^th, 2011 at 9:30am

Yadda wrote on Aug 10^th, 2011 at 10:38am:

muso wrote on Aug 10^th, 2011 at 8:01am:

Sappho wrote on Aug 9^th, 2011 at 8:21pm:

You don't have to download it unless you want to keep it. Just select 'listen now' and it will bring up your media player and begin playing.

Not on 56k dialup, it won't.

muso is correct Sappho.

Not on 56k dialup, it won't. Grin

Not on 19.6 kb/s, 21 kb/s, or 24 kb/s, dialup, it won't.

I have 24 kb/s, today.

Ooooaaar!

Oh Lord, won't you buy me an ADSL ?
My friends all have T1's, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, won't you buy me an ADSL ?

Grin

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Yadda

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #21 - Aug 11^th, 2011 at 11:37am

muso wrote on Aug 11^th, 2011 at 9:30am:

Oh Lord, won't you buy me an ADSL ?
My friends all have T1's, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, won't you buy me an ADSL ?

Grin

LOL

Too far from the exchange for ADSL. Cry

"Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord."

"Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the NBN." Grin

"In your patience possess ye your souls."

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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muso

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #22 - Aug 12^th, 2011 at 8:32am

Your prayers have been answered. At least you can read the transcript. I think he makes many valid points. Atheists are too quick to jump on the bandwagon with Dawkins' brand of anti-theism.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/spiritofthings/stories/2011/3283542.htm

Quote:

Rachael Kohn: Now, John Lennox, you are known as one of the most successful debaters of those who deny God's existence, who say that faith is a delusion. I think Stephen Hawking said that heaven is a fairy story for people who are afraid of the dark.

John Lennox: I think atheism is a fairy story for people afraid of the light. Not that that solves the problem though.

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Soren

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #23 - Aug 23^rd, 2011 at 9:07am

I think atheism, being essentiaqlly a reaction, is mainly a first generation phenomenon. That is, most atheists are converts, rather than keepers of an inter-generational tradition. This explains some of their vehemence: their atheism is a quest for self and reaction against mum & dad (both literally and in the societal sense).
In this sense being an atheist is perpaps a bit like being gay: it may be novel and exciting, not least because of its transgressioon value but it's hard to pass it on to the next generation.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #24 - Aug 23^rd, 2011 at 6:33pm

Soren wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2011 at 9:07am:

I think atheism, being essentiaqlly a reaction, is mainly a first generation phenomenon. That is, most atheists are converts, rather than keepers of an inter-generational tradition. This explains some of their vehemence: their atheism is a quest for self and reaction against mum & dad (both literally and in the societal sense).

This from a resident of one of the most secular countries on earth. Grin

Soren wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2011 at 9:07am:

In this sense being an atheist is perpaps a bit like being gay: it may be novel and exciting, not least because of its transgressioon value but it's hard to pass it on to the next generation.

I think 'neo-Christian' sects is where you'd look to find gays... In denial that is... Would at least explain why they're so obsessed with homosexuality. Wink

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Soren

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #25 - Aug 24^th, 2011 at 9:18am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2011 at 6:33pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2011 at 9:07am:

I think atheism, being essentiaqlly a reaction, is mainly a first generation phenomenon. That is, most atheists are converts, rather than keepers of an inter-generational tradition. This explains some of their vehemence: their atheism is a quest for self and reaction against mum & dad (both literally and in the societal sense).

This from a resident of one of the most secular countries on earth. Grin

Soren wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2011 at 9:07am:

In this sense being an atheist is perpaps a bit like being gay: it may be novel and exciting, not least because of its transgressioon value but it's hard to pass it on to the next generation.

I think 'neo-Christian' sects is where you'd look to find gays... In denial that is... Would at least explain why they're so obsessed with homosexuality. Wink

A bit of demarcation creep there - secular, as every schoolboy knows, is not the same as atheist.

As for homos, the point is that you can't make a trans-generational tradition, complete with institutions, arts and cultural capital out of what is essentially deviance dressed up (if that's the expression I want) as 'personal discovery' issues. And so there is no atheist culture.

More broadly, being gay and being an atheist are about 'you'. Marriage and religion, and all the other stuff of culture and civilisation, are not about 'you' but exactly the other way around: 'you' are about them.

This is why, for example, student centred education is bollocks on stilts with bells on. Education is about transmitting and saving knowledge. Areas where real knowledge is saved and transmitted illustrate the point.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #26 - Aug 24^th, 2011 at 9:25am

Soren wrote on Aug 24^th, 2011 at 9:18am:

A bit of demarcation creep there - secular, as every schoolboy knows, is not the same as atheist.

Church-going has been on the decline in Europe and Australia for decades, with families adopting a non-religious lifestyle.

Soren wrote on Aug 24^th, 2011 at 9:18am:

As for homos, the point is that you can't make a trans-generational tradition, complete with institutions, arts and cultural capital out of what is essentially deviance dressed up (if that's the expression I want) as 'personal discovery' issues. And so there is no atheist culture.

More broadly, being gay and being an atheist are about 'you'. Marriage and religion, and all the other stuff of culture and civilisation, are not about 'you' but exactly the other way around: 'you' are about them.

This is why, for example, student centred education is bollocks on stilts with bells on. Education is about transmitting and saving knowledge. Areas where real knowledge is saved and transmitted illustrate the point.

Do you really think culture can necessarily only be transmitted by belief in God?

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Atheists are .. Reply #27 - Aug 24^th, 2011 at 9:42am What I am saying is that being an atheist, like being gay, is essentially a 'personal discovery' thing, essentially concerned with the self. It atomises. It does not unite, especially not across generations, which is what religion and civilisation do.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #28 - Aug 24^th, 2011 at 10:12pm

Soren wrote on Aug 24^th, 2011 at 9:42am:

What I am saying is that being an atheist, like being gay, is essentially a 'personal discovery' thing, essentially concerned with the self. It atomises. It does not unite, especially not across generations, which is what religion and civilisation do.

Well, not being gay, I couldn't comment further about your point... Maybe you could assist further in defining the nexus... But then again, you're not an atheist.

I can say that my atheism has nothing to do with railing against my upbringing, about which I have no beef.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Soren

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #29 - Aug 24^th, 2011 at 10:45pm

It's not about railing and rebellion. I was brought up an atheist but have lapsed, as it were - and not out of youthful rebellion either. I lapsed not exactly into Christianity but certainly into a greater sympathy for it than for atheism or indeed any of its alternatives.

The point I am making is that religion, like civilisation, is inter-generational. Atheism, being an entirely un- or disorganised personal construction, is not inter-generational. Atheism is like gayness for the same reason atheism is not a religion, nor is gayness, even though people huddle around the concepts.

They are both merely personal.

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