Australian Politics Forum - Call to scrap citizenship test

Avram Horowitz

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #210 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:27pm

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:14pm:

I did not tell them what to do before they blame Chinese without any logic.

I believe some topics here are rude and based on racism.

And I don't think I'm a foreigner. I am an Australian now.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:02pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

I'm not against USA to be the most powerful country before China become a real republic.

However, do you know how to keep being the most powerful country without wars? The only way is technology.

Western people should produce more products and focus on new technologies. Racism won't provide any help to be a powerful country.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:25pm:

If you really believe China is a communist nation now, you are fooled by the medias of China.

How the officers of a communist nation have billions of dollar? They are not communists, they are monopoly capitalists.

They plunder the citizen of China. And sell China to their allies the huge western companies.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:11pm:

The Chinese are a worry for the world.
We don't want communist nation as most powerful.

Sorry but my personal opinion is that I would like the USA to remain the most powerful in the world .
This is because of their philosophies on life and freedom compared to China who I do not trust.

What does racism have to be with it?
Like you I too am not a Aussie but I understand how they become upset with foreigners like us here if we tell them what to do.

I find frustration in people here who make comments and tell us what to do with not knowing the situation. It is rude for foreigners to go to Australia and tell them they are wrong even if sometime they are.

But you are from China yes?

You are a immigrant to Australia? You are not born here?

It is still not good to go to a country and tell them where-what they do wrong.

We have this problem x1000 in Israel with people comment who have no idea, which is why i take great care not to be rude when in someone's country.

I think it is important to remember this.

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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #211 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:37pm

I believe communication will solve some problems at least.

And keep quiet will only make more problems.

If everyone speak in peace, there won't be big problems.

More than half people in Australia was born overseas or their parents was born overseas.

I believe we are equal no matter if I was born here. It's not someone's country but my country too.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:27pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:14pm:

I did not tell them what to do before they blame Chinese without any logic.

I believe some topics here are rude and based on racism.

And I don't think I'm a foreigner. I am an Australian now.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:02pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

I'm not against USA to be the most powerful country before China become a real republic.

However, do you know how to keep being the most powerful country without wars? The only way is technology.

Western people should produce more products and focus on new technologies. Racism won't provide any help to be a powerful country.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:25pm:

If you really believe China is a communist nation now, you are fooled by the medias of China.

How the officers of a communist nation have billions of dollar? They are not communists, they are monopoly capitalists.

They plunder the citizen of China. And sell China to their allies the huge western companies.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:11pm:

The Chinese are a worry for the world.
We don't want communist nation as most powerful.

Sorry but my personal opinion is that I would like the USA to remain the most powerful in the world .
This is because of their philosophies on life and freedom compared to China who I do not trust.

What does racism have to be with it?
Like you I too am not a Aussie but I understand how they become upset with foreigners like us here if we tell them what to do.

I find frustration in people here who make comments and tell us what to do with not knowing the situation. It is rude for foreigners to go to Australia and tell them they are wrong even if sometime they are.

But you are from China yes?

You are a immigrant to Australia? You are not born here?

It is still not good to go to a country and tell them where-what they do wrong.

We have this problem x1000 in Israel with people comment who have no idea, which is why i take great care not to be rude when in someone's country.

I think it is important to remember this.

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #212 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:40pm

You can have your opinion.

I believe you are more allowed opinions on australia than me because i am just a temporary person who returns home soon but i personally believe that aussie born citizens are more entitled than you.

This is my opinion, it is how it is in Israel - a Israeli born is more entitled to views on the country than those who come later in life.
Even though of course everyone has a say - i am speaking to here of levels of important.

You can not be a complete aussie like someone who is here in Australia born and with parents and grandparents.
That is crazy - you are a Chinese.

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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #213 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:46pm

Why a Chinese can not be an Australian?

My children will be born in Australia. They are not white people, they are still Chinese.

Are they Australian?

What is Australian?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:40pm:

You can have your opinion.

I believe you are more allowed opinions on australia than me because i am just a temporary person who returns home soon but i personally believe that aussie born citizens are more entitled than you.

This is my opinion, it is how it is in Israel - a Israeli born is more entitled to views on the country than those who come later in life.
Even though of course everyone has a say - i am speaking to here of levels of important.

You can not be a complete aussie like someone who is here in Australia born and with parents and grandparents.
That is crazy - you are a Chinese.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard' Reply #214 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:47pm it is personal opinion what is australian. My opinion is different to yours.
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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #215 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:50pm

I know. some racists here told about the same thing.

Obviously I do not agree with you. Otherwise I won't come here.

Who will join a country that you can never be a member of?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:47pm:

it is personal opinion what is australian.

My opinion is different to yours.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard' Reply #216 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:52pm If you are not a Jew, then you do not with my country in reality. In the UAE you can not be a citizen unless you are Arab. There are many examples.
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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #217 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:58pm

That's one of the main reasons of the war in middle east.

Both side can not live with the people from different cultures.

If there are same policy in Australia, there will be same war in Australia.

People should learn to live with others from different cultures.

There are many Jew in Australia, did they abandon their culture?

Actually, I respect Jew very much and I believe Chinese should learn more from Jew, but not that part you just said.

Jews keep their culture in other countries in European for thousands of years. And European's oppressing in thousand years can not make Jews abandon their culture. Am I mistake?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:52pm:

If you are not a Jew, then you do not with my country in reality.

In the UAE you can not be a citizen unless you are Arab.

There are many examples.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard' Reply #218 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 8:31pm I don't speak for all Jews in Australia but I do think we keep our culture but also live within laws of the country and do not tell where they are wrong.
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Sappho

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #219 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 8:47pm

I entered this discussion because there was a new Australian who seemed to think that it was ok to point the finger at... Old Australians.

This new Australian suggested that Australians believe the usurping of Aboriginal land, language and culture to be legal, that they are proud the slaughter of Aboriginals and the plunder of their lands, and subsequently, that such people are of the same ilk as the Taliban.

What struck me, aside from the blatant racism simply oozing from the post, was the lack of personal accountability, given that this New Australian is Australian and therefore now a part of this problem identified. This new Australian is as accountable as the rest of us, yet takes no responsibility for it.

We are a nation of immigrants, and all of those who willingly migrated from their home lands to Australia have added validity to the legal status of this Nation and therefore must equally accept the consequences of that validation that was and is the suffering of the Aboriginal tribes.

If it is that the racist rant was directed towards Whites only... then the racism expressed is deeper still... for it is true that all Whites are not of the same ethnicity or culture... and the ethnicity most responsible for the colonization of Australia and the subsequent dispossession experienced by Aboriginals... are the English ruling classes and their pursuit of expansionism.

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 2:38pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 1:52pm:

Are you still believe the conquering legally?

Slaughter the people and plunder their land? You are still proud of it?

Do you believe if anyone have the power, they have rights to do it again to Australia, to you?

What you are thinking is same to Talibans.

That's quite an offensive and racist rant there.

Therefore, can I do to you what you are doing to us?

That is an excerpt of my initial post to this thread. And after giving you a taste of what you were doing to us, your response was...

Quote:

Not everybody are racists like you.

Clearly then, the answer is no... I cannot do to you what you do to us.

You said to me that you are Australian, but was told by another "You are not an Australian", then asked if I knew the difference. Well, yes I do Bowen. An Australian takes ownership of the problems faced by Australia and Australians. They don't seek to blame other, not so new Australians, for the deeds of their Nation.

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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #220 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 8:50pm

That's good. I want to keep the good part of my culture (Actually, I do not hesitate to learn the good part of western culture) and live in law (If you read my other posts, I always said I respect the law because I pledged, and I believe nomocracy is the good part of western political culture. ) in Australia.

Jews may not simply speak, but try to affect or even control the politicians and parliament without breaking the law. Both of us know that Jews have far more influence than Chinese in US and Australia society. I believe I need to learn more from Jews.

I respect Jews very much also because there are many scientists, artists, enterprisers are from the culture of Jews. They produce more than their consuming and they contribute to the world a lot.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 8:31pm:

I don't speak for all Jews in Australia but I do think we keep our culture but also live within laws of the country and do not tell where they are wrong.

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« Last Edit: Nov 6^th, 2012 at 9:02pm by Bowen »

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard' Reply #221 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 8:51pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:40pm: who returns home soon hooray .... good riddance to bad rubbish
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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #222 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 8:55pm

Please do not speak for all Australian. You are one Australian but not the deputy.

And no one here to point the finger to all the "old Australian" but only the few of racists.

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 8:47pm:

I entered this discussion because there was a new Australian who seemed to think that it was ok to point the finger at... Old Australians.

This new Australian suggested that Australians believe the usurping of Aboriginal land, language and culture to be legal, that they are proud the slaughter of Aboriginals and the plunder of their lands, and subsequently, that such people are of the same ilk as the Taliban.

What struck me, aside from the blatant racism simply oozing from the post, was the lack of personal accountability, given that this New Australian is Australian and therefore now a part of this problem identified. This new Australian is as accountable as the rest of us, yet takes no responsibility for it.

We are a nation of immigrants, and all of those who willingly migrated from their home lands to Australia have added validity to the legal status of this Nation and therefore must equally accept the consequences of that validation that was and is the suffering of the Aboriginal tribes.

If it is that the racist rant was directed towards Whites only... then the racism expressed is deeper still... for it is true that all Whites are not of the same ethnicity or culture... and the ethnicity most responsible for the colonization of Australia and the subsequent dispossession experienced by Aboriginals... are the English ruling classes and their pursuit of expansionism.

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 2:38pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 1:52pm:

Are you still believe the conquering legally?

Slaughter the people and plunder their land? You are still proud of it?

Do you believe if anyone have the power, they have rights to do it again to Australia, to you?

What you are thinking is same to Talibans.

That's quite an offensive and racist rant there.

Therefore, can I do to you what you are doing to us?

That is an excerpt of my initial post to this thread. And after giving you a taste of what you were doing to us, your response was...

Quote:

Not everybody are racists like you.

Clearly then, the answer is no... I cannot do to you what you do to us.

You said to me that you are Australian, but was told by another "You are not an Australian", then asked if I knew the difference. Well, yes I do Bowen. An Australian takes ownership of the problems faced by Australia and Australians. They don't seek to blame other, not so new Australians, for the deeds of their Nation.

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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #223 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 8:58pm

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 8:47pm:

An Australian takes ownership of the problems faced by Australia and Australians.

Yes, that's what I am doing.

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 8:47pm:

They don't seek to blame other, not so new Australians, for the deeds of their Nation.

Please looking for the topics in this forum about Chinese.
Don't you think they are blaming others?

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Sappho

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #224 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 9:12pm

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 8:55pm:

Please do not speak for all Australian. You are one Australian but not the deputy.

And no one here to point the finger to all the "old Australian" but only the few of racists.

I did not speak for all Australians... no one can.

And you are too quick to use the term Racism against others, when truly, you should be paying more attention to your own writing and edited out the racism so obviously included.

If you could learn anything from our discussions, it should be that responding to racism with racism only adds to the divisiveness being expressed.

Finally, your obsession with the few who are and ever will be bigoted, is an unhealthy pursuit that will taint your attitude towards the many... which I suspect, given your pigeon holing of me as racist... is already happening.

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