Australian Politics Forum - Call to scrap citizenship test

Sappho

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #180 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:26pm

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

Chinese have many violence in the history too. I am never proud of them.

But almost no violence in Chinese history is because of the difference of cultures.

Most of the violence because of the political reasons between Chinese people.

And that's why I believe the political culture of western is better than Chinese.

If there were no 'ethnic' reasons, then could you please explain the Mongol uprising and the caste system they introduced, which in turn lead to the Red Turban rebellion... etc, etc,

Lots of examples of prejudice in modern and ancient China.

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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #181 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:29pm

It depends on what the wars were.

If you fight to intruders to protect your own family and your own land, you can feel glory. If you fight to strong enemy soldiers, you may find glory.

However, you have no any glory when you slaughter civilians and you are an intruder.

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:20pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:18pm:

Yes, no one should be proud of the violence.

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:17pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

Chinese have many violence in the history too. I am never proud of them.

EVERYONE have many violence in the history.

It's not for you to dictate what people should or shouldn't be proud of is it? Many cultures find glory on the battlefield - are they inferior?

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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #182 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:33pm

Chinese was also victim of Mongol. Mongol conquered the Chinese dynasty Song in 1279 and ruled China for about 90 years until the new dynasty Ming drive them off.

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:26pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

Chinese have many violence in the history too. I am never proud of them.

But almost no violence in Chinese history is because of the difference of cultures.

Most of the violence because of the political reasons between Chinese people.

And that's why I believe the political culture of western is better than Chinese.

If there were no 'ethnic' reasons, then could you please explain the Mongol uprising and the caste system they introduced, which in turn lead to the Red Turban rebellion... etc, etc,

Lots of examples of prejudice in modern and ancient China.

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Quantum

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #183 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:37pm

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 2:22pm:

I do not want to discuss my research details here.

Do you really think you have all the technologies in the world?

Your worlds only shows your nescience.

Then don't. So how about instead you tell us in general what it is that your people bring that we Australians don't already have.

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...

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #184 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:39pm

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:29pm:

It depends on what the wars were.

If you fight to intruders to protect your own family and your own land, you can feel glory. If you fight to strong enemy soldiers, you may find glory.

However, you have no any glory when you slaughter civilians and you are an intruder.

How about fighting to secure new lands, so that future generations of your people may find peace and prosperity on them?

Glorious?

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In the fullness of time...

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Quantum Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3373	Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard' Reply #185 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:40pm Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:33pm: Chinese was also victim of Mongol. Mongol conquered the Chinese dynasty Song in 1279 and ruled China for about 90 years until the new dynasty Ming drive them off. Why didn't the Chinese welcome their new Mongol overlords in the name of multiculturalism?
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Sappho

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #186 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:40pm

Actually, my main point was against your claim that the whole of china was re-united... which is a lie whether it be circa 200 B.C.E or 200 C.E

Thank you for completely ignoring my main point in preference for a bit of what?

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:18pm:

Please...

What he is talking about is about 221BC, not the second century.

Yes, the map of China is the bequest of Qing (not Qin), the last dynasty in the history of China. However, Qing is not built by original Chinese but Manchu who conquered China in 1644.

Finally, Manchu merged with Chinese in 300 years.

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

It was a civil war of Chinese. Actually, Han, Zhao, Yan, Wei, Chu, Qi are some dukes or earls of the previous dynasty Zhou. When Zhou declined, they fight each others until Qin re-united the whole China.

That is a lie. China was not re-united in the second century... It had never been united in the first place. Also, the Han view of a united China is far far smaller than that which represents China now.

Finally... The Han Chinese are an ethnic group originating in central China but destined to usurp and destroy all surrounding ethic Asians.... and they are not done yet... Those pesky Tibetans are yet to be 'assimilated'.

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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #187 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:42pm

Between about 200BC and about 200AD, China is an united dynasty Han.

Is there any question?

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:40pm:

Actually, my main point was against your claim that the whole of china was re-united... which is a lie whether it be circa 200 B.C.E or 200 C.E

Thank you for completely ignoring my main point in preference for a bit of what?

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:18pm:

Please...

What he is talking about is about 221BC, not the second century.

Yes, the map of China is the bequest of Qing (not Qin), the last dynasty in the history of China. However, Qing is not built by original Chinese but Manchu who conquered China in 1644.

Finally, Manchu merged with Chinese in 300 years.

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

It was a civil war of Chinese. Actually, Han, Zhao, Yan, Wei, Chu, Qi are some dukes or earls of the previous dynasty Zhou. When Zhou declined, they fight each others until Qin re-united the whole China.

That is a lie. China was not re-united in the second century... It had never been united in the first place. Also, the Han view of a united China is far far smaller than that which represents China now.

Finally... The Han Chinese are an ethnic group originating in central China but destined to usurp and destroy all surrounding ethic Asians.... and they are not done yet... Those pesky Tibetans are yet to be 'assimilated'.

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Sappho

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #188 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:47pm

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:33pm:

Chinese was also victim of Mongol.

Well I know that the Mongol are not the Han... but that's not really what you are saying now is it?

You seem to be saying that the ethnic grouping called Mongol that exist within the Chinese Provence of Xinjiang are not Chinese. Why?

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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #189 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:50pm

Because they did not come in equal and peace.

They did not only live with Chinese but attempt to be the masters of Chinese.

There is no equal rights between Mongol and Chinese when Mongol ruled China.

That's why they were driven off.

Another example is Qing. After the revolution in 1911, Manchu finally merged with Chinese people. When Manchu live with Chinese equally, no one drive them again. Some culture of Manchu became the part of Chinese culture such as the cheong-sam. Many words and pronunciation of Manchu because the part of Chinese. And the standard Chinese pronunciation is partially from Manchu, that is called Mandarin in English.

Quantum wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:40pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:33pm:

Chinese was also victim of Mongol. Mongol conquered the Chinese dynasty Song in 1279 and ruled China for about 90 years until the new dynasty Ming drive them off.

Why didn't the Chinese welcome their new Mongol overlords in the name of multiculturalism?

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« Last Edit: Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:55pm by Bowen »

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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #190 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:54pm

Part of Mongol merged to Chinese, actually everyone can live with Chinese in peace and equal no matter the culture.

But the other Mongol from their original area built a country named Mongolia.

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:47pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:33pm:

Chinese was also victim of Mongol.

Well I know that the Mongol are not the Han... but that's not really what you are saying now is it?

You seem to be saying that the ethnic grouping called Mongol that exist within the Chinese Provence of Xinjiang are not Chinese. Why?

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Sappho

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #191 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:07pm

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:42pm:

Between about 200BC and about 200AD, China is an united dynasty Han.

Oh... are you saying that to be Chinese is to be Han?

See below for what Han China was...

Map of the world as known to Han Dynasty China in 2 CE. Names of non-Chinese peoples and states have been purposely left with their Chinese names (e.g. Dayuan instead of Fergana; Gaogouli instead of Goguryeo) to reflect the fact that our knowledge of participants in the Han world order comes almost exclusively from Chinese sources. (picture and description from Wiki)

And now have a look at what Han China is

Han Chinese constitute about 92% of the population of the People's Republic of China (mainland China)
(map and text from Wiki)

It took a lot of ethnic cleansing by the Han peoples so as to enjoy a monocultural and almost pure ethnic existence that is your Han China of today.

What happened to the other cultures and ethnic groupings? Well... some suffered genocide so that we have no trace beyond what the Han Chinese wrote of them... most other ethnic groups were pushed out of their home lands and now represent Asians of other nations.

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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #192 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:20pm

Firstly, Chinese is never a pure culture in the history.

And yes, there are difference between the map of Han and Qing in the 2000 years,

The map of modern China is based on the bequest of Qing Dynasty which is built by Manchu.

Manchu conquered China and some border areas in 300 years and mixed them together. Finally, Manchu mixed themselves to Chinese after 1911.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Empire_of_the_Great_Qing_(orthographic_projection).svg&page=1

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:07pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:42pm:

Between about 200BC and about 200AD, China is an united dynasty Han.

Oh... are you saying that to be Chinese is to be Han?

See below for what Han China was...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Han_foreign_relations_C...
Map of the world as known to Han Dynasty China in 2 CE. Names of non-Chinese peoples and states have been purposely left with their Chinese names (e.g. Dayuan instead of Fergana; Gaogouli instead of Goguryeo) to reflect the fact that our knowledge of participants in the Han world order comes almost exclusively from Chinese sources. (picture and description from Wiki)

And now have a look at what Han China is

http://www.travelchinaguide.com/images/map/china/china-map-9.jpg
Han Chinese constitute about 92% of the population of the People's Republic of China (mainland China)
(map and text from Wiki)

It took a lot of ethnic cleansing by the Han peoples so as to enjoy a monocultural and almost pure ethnic existence that is your Han China of today.

What happened to the other cultures and ethnic groupings? Well... some suffered genocide so that we have no trace beyond what the Han Chinese wrote of them... most other ethnic groups were pushed out of their home lands and now represent Asians of other nations.

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Bowen Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 703 Gender:	Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard' Reply #193 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:23pm I wonder if you guys know that, how many times that intruders merged to Chinese and expended the border of China in the history.
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Bowen

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Re: Call to scrap citizenship test - 'too hard'
Reply #194 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:27pm

It's obviously a lie. Do you know when China limits Chinese citizen have only one child, the minorities are not limited by the policy. Do you know the growth of the population of Tibetans?

If you call it as ethnic cleansing, it's to Han people.

What will you think if Australia limits white people can only have one child and do not limit all other races? Is it crazy? It's what happening in China. TODAY!

I don't know if they are fool, but I am sure they are not racist of Chinese.

Sappho wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:07pm:

It took a lot of ethnic cleansing by the Han peoples so as to enjoy a monocultural and almost pure ethnic existence that is your Han China of today.

What happened to the other cultures and ethnic groupings? Well... some suffered genocide so that we have no trace beyond what the Han Chinese wrote of them... most other ethnic groups were pushed out of their home lands and now represent Asians of other nations.

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« Last Edit: Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:34pm by Bowen »

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