Australian Politics Forum - Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?

gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ? Reply #45 - Jul 8^th, 2011 at 12:28pm There is ALWAYS a solution, if you look for it..
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Doctor Jolly Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3808	Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ? Reply #46 - Jul 8^th, 2011 at 12:32pm True, but an expensive solution means either poor people miss out, or rich people have to subsidize them.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?
Reply #47 - Jul 8^th, 2011 at 12:41pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 12:32pm:

True, but an expensive solution means either poor people miss out, or rich people have to subsidize them.

Expensive now, doesn't rule out necessary later..

Some solutions are better than others, true...but this thread IS about 'whatifs' and possibilities after all..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?
Reply #48 - Jul 8^th, 2011 at 12:50pm

Well actually, my motivation for the thread was to explore ideas about how an INDIVIDUAL might set himself up to avoid (or minimize) the hardship climate change will bring. How he may prosper while the masses suffer.

As a whole, the quality of life for mankind will fall. Some will fall a lot, some not much. What to do to be in the "not much" category ?

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?
Reply #49 - Jul 8^th, 2011 at 1:45pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 12:50pm:

Well actually, my motivation for the thread was to explore ideas about how an INDIVIDUAL might set himself up to avoid (or minimize) the hardship climate change will bring. How he may prosper while the masses suffer.

As a whole, the quality of life for mankind will fall. Some will fall a lot, some not much. What to do to be in the "not much" category ?

Ahh, I see......Although, an individual can't do too much alone...You'd still need to interact with others....some foods you can't grow, some goods you can't make yourself etc...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?
Reply #50 - Jul 8^th, 2011 at 1:48pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 12:50pm:

Well actually, my motivation for the thread was to explore ideas about how an INDIVIDUAL might set himself up to avoid (or minimize) the hardship climate change will bring. How he may prosper while the masses suffer.

As a whole, the quality of life for mankind will fall. Some will fall a lot, some not much. What to do to be in the "not much" category ?

This can be explained in an old documentary about the subject called 'mad max'.

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In the fullness of time...

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?
Reply #51 - Jul 8^th, 2011 at 1:50pm

... wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 1:48pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 12:50pm:

Well actually, my motivation for the thread was to explore ideas about how an INDIVIDUAL might set himself up to avoid (or minimize) the hardship climate change will bring. How he may prosper while the masses suffer.

As a whole, the quality of life for mankind will fall. Some will fall a lot, some not much. What to do to be in the "not much" category ?

This can be explained in an old documentary about the subject called 'mad max'.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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muso

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Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?
Reply #52 - Jul 8^th, 2011 at 3:18pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 1:45pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 12:50pm:

Well actually, my motivation for the thread was to explore ideas about how an INDIVIDUAL might set himself up to avoid (or minimize) the hardship climate change will bring. How he may prosper while the masses suffer.

As a whole, the quality of life for mankind will fall. Some will fall a lot, some not much. What to do to be in the "not much" category ?

Ahh, I see......Although, an individual can't do too much alone...You'd still need to interact with others....some foods you can't grow, some goods you can't make yourself etc...

Did your wife ever drag you along to see Titanic, and did you see how Leonardo Di Caprio tried to survive as long as possible until the ship went down?

I think you understand the concept of the thread anyway.

Individual solutions for survival might be hydroponically grown food, personal power generation, and all the kinds of other things that you might do to survive under any crisis.

Have you come across aquaponics ? That's hydroponics with fish producing all the nutrients for the plants.

Another way of looking at the problem might be from the society perspective. That's what I was getting at with my post on forams, developing new drought resistant strains of major crops etc.

We could broaden the perspective and look at what we could do if fuel was in very short supply, or superphosphate for that matter (The aquaponics idea is suddenly becoming more interesting)

Imagine a world without fuel for transport infrastructure - many supplies would suddenly need to be sourced locally. It happened in my area in January this year when floods in Queensland meant that many supermarket shelves were suddenly bare, and the significance of how much we rely on centralised distribution hit hard.

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« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2011 at 3:23pm by muso »

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?
Reply #53 - Jul 8^th, 2011 at 3:55pm

muso wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 3:18pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 1:45pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 12:50pm:

Well actually, my motivation for the thread was to explore ideas about how an INDIVIDUAL might set himself up to avoid (or minimize) the hardship climate change will bring. How he may prosper while the masses suffer.

As a whole, the quality of life for mankind will fall. Some will fall a lot, some not much. What to do to be in the "not much" category ?

Ahh, I see......Although, an individual can't do too much alone...You'd still need to interact with others....some foods you can't grow, some goods you can't make yourself etc...

Did your wife ever drag you along to see Titanic, and did you see how Leonardo Di Caprio tried to survive as long as possible until the ship went down?

I think you understand the concept of the thread anyway.

Individual solutions for survival might be hydroponically grown food, personal power generation, and all the kinds of other things that you might do to survive under any crisis.

Have you come across aquaponics ? That's hydroponics with fish producing all the nutrients for the plants.

Another way of looking at the problem might be from the society perspective. That's what I was getting at with my post on forams, developing new drought resistant strains of major crops etc.

We could broaden the perspective and look at what we could do if fuel was in very short supply, or superphosphate for that matter (The aquaponics idea is suddenly becoming more interesting)

Imagine a world without fuel for transport infrastructure - many supplies would suddenly need to be sourced locally. It happened in my area in January this year when floods in Queensland meant that many supermarket shelves were suddenly bare, and the significance of how much we rely on centralised distribution hit hard.

I don't have a wife...and I don't watch Leonardo Di Caprio movies( he bugs me, and I have never watched Titanic....because they got almost everything wrong on that film that they could have..it was possible the worst film ever made.AND I do include Plan 9 from Outer Space on that list)...so no I don't quite see where you're going....however...there are still things that 'can' be done....including importing soil from other areas, or using sewerage to improve soil quality..etc...

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« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2011 at 4:01pm by gizmo_2655 »

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Emma

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Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?
Reply #54 - Jul 8^th, 2011 at 11:36pm

etc etc etc

Yes that is the idea - how do we - in our varied and various environments - survive - the best way we can?

Living in a society, a world, for the most part made up of interdependent specialists- in the billions- is truly a ludicrous state of affairs. Yet -- Here We Are!

Solutions? - There are very many many ways of addressing this intrinsic problem - that we all face. From my observations of the human and the natural world, there is no - One Size Fits All.

Locale will determine the response - but - isn't it better to act first, - rather than wait - for what can only be an inevitable break up. ... How any sensible person can see our current 'lifestyle' as anything BUT non-viable in the longer term eludes me completely. .

I do what I can - I own a small but protected and significant bit of natural bush - very near a proposed higher density area for housing people. Which I oppose- - a stupid idea. And THAT within 45 kms of the CBD.
Don't spread it MY way!!!!!

So I add to the general good by identifying , protecting and maintaining as much as possible - thereby operating a carbon sink. Through my obs and report. over time this now includes a much larger area than just my piece, protected by both State and Federal Environmental protection law..
On a riparian corridor - with huge diversity - I at least feel like I do contribute more than my quota.
And the beauty and peace and life - give back to me.

And I just wish many more people felt the same way I do.

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muso

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Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?
Reply #55 - Jul 11^th, 2011 at 2:11pm

I think that these community garden projects are a great idea, especially if people can use the produce themselves. It turns what was unproductive land in the cities to good use (a lot of community gardens were wiped out in Brisbane by the floods though) , and is a good focal point for often dysfunctional urban communities to get together. The more food we can produce within the cities (grow your own) the better. It cuts down on distribution fuel etc.

Some of them have chooks, eggs and fish (aquaculture) too. In some US cities, they have roof-top community gardens.

I agree that we need more self-sufficient and community programs. The floods were a wake-up call. If fuel shortage ever threatens distribution networks to any great extent, people will start starving to death.

Gizmo, some of what you describe is already happening in major cities, at least on a small scale. For example, garden compost is made from dried sewage sludge.

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« Last Edit: Jul 11^th, 2011 at 2:16pm by muso »

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?
Reply #56 - Jul 11^th, 2011 at 2:36pm

muso wrote on Jul 11^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

I think that these community garden projects are a great idea, especially if people can use the produce themselves. It turns what was unproductive land in the cities to good use (a lot of community gardens were wiped out in Brisbane by the floods though) , and is a good focal point for often dysfunctional urban communities to get together. The more food we can produce within the cities (grow your own) the better. It cuts down on distribution fuel etc.

Some of them have chooks, eggs and fish (aquaculture) too. In some US cities, they have roof-top community gardens.

I agree that we need more self-sufficient and community programs. The floods were a wake-up call. If fuel shortage ever threatens distribution networks to any great extent, people will start starving to death.

Gizmo, some of what you describe is already happening in major cities, at least on a small scale. For example, garden compost is made from dried sewage sludge.

Yes Muso....Unfortunately in some Australian council areas keeping chooks isn't allowed, nor are vegie gardens..private OR community..

As for the soil improvement method, I was basing it on a 102 yr old large scale example......Tel Aviv.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Emma

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Re: Climate Change. How to benefit from it ?
Reply #57 - Jul 11^th, 2011 at 11:50pm

I think its probably the best way to go - local - !
Be it Rooftop Permaculture - communal produce - gardens /chooks/fish - neighbourhood bartering - skill-sharing -its all been done before -

No reason why the expertise acquired cannot be 'rolled-out' to the various regions, as need dictates.

Except the acceptance of the need, and the will to proceed.!

Then ?? Given the will- and our political set-up here in Oz, I'd say - this can be done, using ALL levels of Government. Feds for funding and overarching principles - State for administration, - and Local for Grassroots.

Thats the way its s'posed to work anyway - don't see why it can't, as I said, if we have the WILL.

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