Australian Politics Forum - The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51834 At my desk.	Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax Reply #90 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 8:48pm You tell me. It's your story. I am seeing more detailed economic analysis in the media than ever before. Even the Australian is giving Labor backhanded compliments.
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #91 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 8:56pm

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 8:48pm:

You tell me. It's your story. I am seeing more detailed economic analysis in the media than ever before. Even the Australian is giving Labor backhanded compliments.

True, I did see an article in the Australian about the pros of the carbon tax. It disappeared after being online for one hour Wink

.

Like I said, overall, I just feel they've gone about this the wrong way. Concentrate on things that can be easily conceptualised when selling to people a policy, and don't let people do their own guesswork. And sell policies with a positive message that makes them understand they need to contribute.

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Maqqa

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #92 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:00pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 14^th, 2011 at 9:45pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 14^th, 2011 at 9:39pm:

So if a politician said it was a good idea, that would settle it? Maybe they think it is better sold by scientists, economists, journalists etc.

Has it been working? The point is we have a majority of Australians understanding and awknowledging man made climate change is real, yet not wanting the carbon tax. Scientists can't help in this. And with the media the way it is, I doubt any assistance will come from them unless the government sets an actual agenda for the carbon tax outside of just talking about the 5% reduction and how it will do the job. Change the topic from climate change, which we know is happening, and put it onto sustainable living, which is something that any household can actively participate in. Or don't ramp up the discussion about it until such a time as you have all the facts on the policy, which will at least help bring about certainty.

You can't possibly say that their current approach to releasing policy has been effective. That's all I'm saying.

The majority of Australians also understands that an AUSTRALIAN Carbon Tax will not lower global temperature

They understand that their families suffer and it will not lower GLOBAL temperature

We are only having this carbon tax to meet the Kyoto obligations which Gillard got us into

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #93 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:06pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:00pm:

The majority of Australians also understands that an AUSTRALIAN Carbon Tax will not lower global temperature

True, nobody ever said it will on its own. Give me one quote where someone says it will reduce global temperature all on its own?

Quote:

They understand that their families suffer and it will not lower GLOBAL temperature

Their families suffer because of sustainability issues. Too much over-consumption = increased costs. Electricity Prices growing through the roof thanks to shonky infrastructure that hasn't been touched for years, and more needing to be outputed to meet growing population. Pollution growing with congestion.

All of these can be mitigated by people learning to live within their means and to start being sustainable. One aspect that achieves this is the COMPENSATION that you are GIVEN BACK from the CARBON TAX which prompts you about being sustainable and puts you into the frame of mind that "Hey I get more money from the government to pay my electricity bills, so if I use less electricity I get to SAVE IT for other things! Yay!"
[/quote]

Quote:

We are only having this carbon tax to meet the Kyoto obligations which Gillard got us into

No, we are having this carbon tax because climate change is real, and real action needs to be taken. Grin

Hmm, well their message has rubbed off on me at least, ey? Cheesy

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Maqqa

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #94 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:32pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:06pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:00pm:

The majority of Australians also understands that an AUSTRALIAN Carbon Tax will not lower global temperature

True, nobody ever said it will on its own. Give me one quote where someone says it will reduce global temperature all on its own?

so why do it if it does not lower global temperature?

why is Gillard and Brown justifying that the world is heating up therefore we must have an Australian Carbon tax

by direct inference they are saying an Australian Carbon Tax will lower global temperature

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #95 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:34pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:32pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:06pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:00pm:

The majority of Australians also understands that an AUSTRALIAN Carbon Tax will not lower global temperature

True, nobody ever said it will on its own. Give me one quote where someone says it will reduce global temperature all on its own?

so why do it if it does not lower global temperature?

why is Gillard and Brown justifying that the world is heating up therefore we must have an Australian Carbon tax

by direct inference they are saying an Australian Carbon Tax will lower global temperature

Nope. They are simply saying we must contribute to the fight against catastrophic climate change. There is no inference from that what so ever.

I guess I won't hold my breath about that quote you most likely WON'T be getting? Grin

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Maqqa

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #96 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:35pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:06pm:

Quote:

We are only having this carbon tax to meet the Kyoto obligations which Gillard got us into

No, we are having this carbon tax because climate change is real, and real action needs to be taken. Grin

Hmm, well their message has rubbed off on me at least, ey? Cheesy

So the justifications for having a Carbon Tax is "because climate change is real"

what about it?

an Australian Carbon Tax will not not make it 50% less real

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #97 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:37pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:35pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:06pm:

Quote:

We are only having this carbon tax to meet the Kyoto obligations which Gillard got us into

No, we are having this carbon tax because climate change is real, and real action needs to be taken. Grin

Hmm, well their message has rubbed off on me at least, ey? Cheesy

So the justifications for having a Carbon Tax is "because climate change is real"

what about it?

an Australian Carbon Tax will not not make it 50% less real

Wow, you are really good at inferring things! Grin

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Maqqa

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #98 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:37pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:34pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:32pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:06pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:00pm:

The majority of Australians also understands that an AUSTRALIAN Carbon Tax will not lower global temperature

True, nobody ever said it will on its own. Give me one quote where someone says it will reduce global temperature all on its own?

so why do it if it does not lower global temperature?

why is Gillard and Brown justifying that the world is heating up therefore we must have an Australian Carbon tax

by direct inference they are saying an Australian Carbon Tax will lower global temperature

Nope. They are simply saying we must contribute to the fight against catastrophic climate change. There is no inference from that what so ever.

I guess I won't hold my breath about that quote you most likely WON'T be getting? Grin

So it's about "contributing" to the fight now

Contributing what and how much?

5% of 1.35% of 3%??

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #99 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:38pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:37pm:

So it's about "contributing" to the fight now

Contributing what and how much?

5% of 1.35% of 3%??

OOoh lookie at Maqqa trying to ignore providing that quote

Comon, I'm sure it's somewhere!! I don't mind waiting?

PS: It's always been about contributing. Provide me a quote which says it wasn't about contributing.

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Maqqa

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #100 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:43pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:38pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:37pm:

So it's about "contributing" to the fight now

Contributing what and how much?

5% of 1.35% of 3%??

OOoh lookie at Maqqa trying to ignore providing that quote

Comon, I'm sure it's somewhere!! I don't mind waiting?

PS: It's always been about contributing. Provide me a quote which says it wasn't about contributing.

Did I say that someone had directly said it?

We are being presented with a human caused climate change reason for having an Australian Carbon Tax

like a cigarette tax it's meant to reduce smoking to reduce cancer and we see results of that

but an Australian Carbon Tax may reduce carbon by 5% of 1.35% but it won't reduce global temperature

so why do it?

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #101 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:47pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:43pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:38pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:37pm:

So it's about "contributing" to the fight now

Contributing what and how much?

5% of 1.35% of 3%??

OOoh lookie at Maqqa trying to ignore providing that quote

Comon, I'm sure it's somewhere!! I don't mind waiting?

PS: It's always been about contributing. Provide me a quote which says it wasn't about contributing.

Did I say that someone had directly said it?

We are being presented with a human caused climate change reason for having an Australian Carbon Tax

like a cigarette tax it's meant to reduce smoking to reduce cancer and we see results of that

but an Australian Carbon Tax may reduce carbon by 5% of 1.35% but it won't reduce global temperature

so why do it?

Well you unequivocally refer to the fact that it is designed to reduce global temperature on its own. So clearly you got that from somewhere. Where did you get it from? Give us the quote, the story, whatever it is, that made you think this.

Once again avoiding a simple question. Maqqa, losing your touch!

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« Last Edit: Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:53pm by sir prince duke alevine »

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Maqqa

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #102 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:52pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:47pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:43pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:38pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:37pm:

So it's about "contributing" to the fight now

Contributing what and how much?

5% of 1.35% of 3%??

OOoh lookie at Maqqa trying to ignore providing that quote

Comon, I'm sure it's somewhere!! I don't mind waiting?

PS: It's always been about contributing. Provide me a quote which says it wasn't about contributing.

Did I say that someone had directly said it?

We are being presented with a human caused climate change reason for having an Australian Carbon Tax

like a cigarette tax it's meant to reduce smoking to reduce cancer and we see results of that

but an Australian Carbon Tax may reduce carbon by 5% of 1.35% but it won't reduce global temperature

so why do it?

Well you unequivocally refer to the fact that it is designed to reduce global temperature on its own. So clearly you got that from where. Where did you get it from? Give us the quote, the story, whatever it is, that made you think this.

Once again averting a simple question. Maqqa, losing your touch!

I am saying that Gillard has used Global Warming as a reason to impose an Australian Carbon Tax

If you are going to tag a tax to a cause/event then increasing the tax would reduce the cause/event

So if there are no such correlation between a Carbon Tax and Global Warming then why are we doing it?

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #103 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:57pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:52pm:

I am saying that Gillard has used Global Warming as a reason to impose an Australian Carbon Tax

If you are going to tag a tax to a cause/event then increasing the tax would reduce the cause/event

So if there are no such correlation between a Carbon Tax and Global Warming then why are we doing it?

We are doing it to begin the transformation into a low emissions economy, which will result in drops in emissions, which results in our contribution to averting catastrophic effects of climate change. I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you over and over and over again.

Now, considering you've inferred completely differently, I'd like to know which information you use to come to your conclusions. Quotes that say the Carbon Tax will on its own reduce global temperature? No? Grin

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