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The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax (Read 4643 times)
Maqqa
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #75 - Jun 14th, 2011 at 7:05pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 1:46pm:
The Gillard government has a severe issue with communication and its ability to sell its policies.  

Take the Carbon Tax for example.  Now, what we know is that the vast majority of Australians understand that man made climate change is real.  Hence why the agenda from both parties has moved past the "science" and now we are debating the action to take.  The majority of people understand that direct action has been tried and failed. Yet, people still don't support the Carbon Tax? Why?  



And MAN only contributes about 3% of it

The lefties are telling us that Man-made carbon is somehow different from nature-made carbon

IT'S THE SAME FREAKIN CARBON


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freediver
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #76 - Jun 14th, 2011 at 7:09pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 1:46pm:
The Gillard government has a severe issue with communication and its ability to sell its policies.  

Take the Carbon Tax for example.  Now, what we know is that the vast majority of Australians understand that man made climate change is real.  Hence why the agenda from both parties has moved past the "science" and now we are debating the action to take.  The majority of people understand that direct action has been tried and failed. Yet, people still don't support the Carbon Tax? Why?  

It has nothing to do with the fact that Gillard lied. It does however have to do with the fact that noone bothers listening to the government anymore because the messages are just so jagged. In this case, I am of the opinion that the government should not be selling the climate tax as the required mechanism to stop the "Greatest moral challenge of our time" but rather it is a sustainable living measure; sell the message just like the successful Target 150 campaign in Victoria for water consumption.  We know Climate Change is real, we know electricity prices are growing, and we know population is growing, and is inevitable that it continue to grow.  So, we know we have to start living in a more sustainable way, one way or another.  With this in mind, introduce the carbon tax to generate increased demand in the renewable sector and provide compensation to people so they have the incentive to reduce their energy and save money they get as a tax cut.

What do others think? Why is it that this government simply can't sell a message, or their advisors seem to always come up with longwinded frutile messages that never interest anyone, and if anything just frustrate the electorate?  



They need to figure out what the carbon tax is before they try to sell it. Otherwise they will just look silly. Fortunately they do not have to bother selling it until the next election, provided they can keep their coalition together. You can't complain about the government's failure to take a long term view of things at the same time as complaining about their failure to respond to each poll that comes out. Gillard is playing the long game.
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PlayersPlay
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #77 - Jun 14th, 2011 at 7:13pm
 
Maqqa wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 7:05pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 1:46pm:
The Gillard government has a severe issue with communication and its ability to sell its policies. 

Take the Carbon Tax for example.  Now, what we know is that the vast majority of Australians understand that man made climate change is real.  Hence why the agenda from both parties has moved past the "science" and now we are debating the action to take.  The majority of people understand that direct action has been tried and failed. Yet, people still don't support the Carbon Tax? Why?   



And MAN only contributes about 3% of it

The lefties are telling us that Man-made carbon is somehow different from nature-made carbon

IT'S THE SAME FREAKIN CARBON



How was the shamefulness of that dood on Q and A last night saying climate change was only a theory like gravity!

LOLmylittleacorntopiecesAGAIN!

ohmyihavetostop!!!  Roll Eyes Grin Grin
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Now! How...?
 
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PlayersPlay
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #78 - Jun 14th, 2011 at 7:14pm
 
Concetta Fierravanti-Wells... OMGOODNESS SHE IS A LAUGHING STOCK TODAY!
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Now! How...?
 
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #79 - Jun 14th, 2011 at 9:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 7:09pm:
They need to figure out what the carbon tax is before they try to sell it. Otherwise they will just look silly. Fortunately they do not have to bother selling it until the next election, provided they can keep their coalition together. You can't complain about the government's failure to take a long term view of things at the same time as complaining about their failure to respond to each poll that comes out. Gillard is playing the long game.


I'm not complaining about them not responding to polls - if anything I like the fact they don't pamper to public opinion all the time. My concern is that they released their policy without much information knowing full well that explaining a tax and why it's a good thing is a lot harder than Direct Action, which can be seen as being principle because results are more easily conceptualised.   Basically, the way they've gone about this policy, like so many other policies, is from the outset putting people on the back foot. They needed to, and need to with future policies, provide proper reasoning for their legislation and how it contributes to their vision for Australia. Hence why I'm saying I'd much prefer they got away from the old tale of this being the greatest moral challenge of our time, which gives opportunity to the likes of denialists, and instead took it upon themselves to explain the need to become more personally sustainable, why this is needed, how it contributes to reductions in climate change and prosperity for Australia, and how the Carbon Tax helps achieve this.

Like I said, I'm all for long-term politics.  It's refreshing.  
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #80 - Jun 14th, 2011 at 9:29pm
 
Maqqa wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 7:05pm:
And MAN only contributes about 3% of it

The lefties are telling us that Man-made carbon is somehow different from nature-made carbon

IT'S THE SAME FREAKIN CARBON




What? Man only contributes 3% to man made climate change? Right.

Thanks for sharing.
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philperth2010
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #81 - Jun 14th, 2011 at 9:38pm
 
PlayersPlay wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 7:13pm:
Maqqa wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 7:05pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 1:46pm:
The Gillard government has a severe issue with communication and its ability to sell its policies.  

Take the Carbon Tax for example.  Now, what we know is that the vast majority of Australians understand that man made climate change is real.  Hence why the agenda from both parties has moved past the "science" and now we are debating the action to take.  The majority of people understand that direct action has been tried and failed. Yet, people still don't support the Carbon Tax? Why?  



And MAN only contributes about 3% of it

The lefties are telling us that Man-made carbon is somehow different from nature-made carbon

IT'S THE SAME FREAKIN CARBON



How was the shamefulness of that dood on Q and A last night saying climate change was only a theory like gravity!

LOLmylittleacorntopiecesAGAIN!

ohmyihavetostop!!!  Roll Eyes Grin Grin


Concetta Fierravanti-Wells is obviously a sceptic....lol!!!


Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968), Strength to Love, 1963
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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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freediver
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #82 - Jun 14th, 2011 at 9:39pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 9:27pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 7:09pm:
They need to figure out what the carbon tax is before they try to sell it. Otherwise they will just look silly. Fortunately they do not have to bother selling it until the next election, provided they can keep their coalition together. You can't complain about the government's failure to take a long term view of things at the same time as complaining about their failure to respond to each poll that comes out. Gillard is playing the long game.


I'm not complaining about them not responding to polls - if anything I like the fact they don't pamper to public opinion all the time. My concern is that they released their policy without much information knowing full well that explaining a tax and why it's a good thing is a lot harder than Direct Action, which can be seen as being principle because results are more easily conceptualised.   Basically, the way they've gone about this policy, like so many other policies, is from the outset putting people on the back foot. They needed to, and need to with future policies, provide proper reasoning for their legislation and how it contributes to their vision for Australia. Hence why I'm saying I'd much prefer they got away from the old tale of this being the greatest moral challenge of our time, which gives opportunity to the likes of denialists, and instead took it upon themselves to explain the need to become more personally sustainable, why this is needed, how it contributes to reductions in climate change and prosperity for Australia, and how the Carbon Tax helps achieve this.

Like I said, I'm all for long-term politics.  It's refreshing.  


So if a politician said it was a good idea, that would settle it? Maybe they think it is better sold by scientists, economists, journalists etc.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #83 - Jun 14th, 2011 at 9:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 9:39pm:
So if a politician said it was a good idea, that would settle it? Maybe they think it is better sold by scientists, economists, journalists etc.


Has it been working? The point is we have a majority of Australians understanding and awknowledging man made climate change is real, yet not wanting the carbon tax.  Scientists can't help in this.  And with the media the way it is, I doubt any assistance will come from them unless the government sets an actual agenda for the carbon tax outside of just talking about the 5% reduction and how it will do the job.  Change the topic from climate change, which we know is happening, and put it onto sustainable living, which is something that any household can actively participate in.  Or don't ramp up the discussion about it until such a time as you have all the facts on the policy, which will at least help bring about certainty.

You can't possibly say that their current approach to releasing policy has been effective.  That's all I'm saying.
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #84 - Jun 16th, 2011 at 8:10pm
 
I can't imagine they could have done much better. They had to release it some time. Better to give people time to get used to the idea. That way when they release the details the debate will focus on the details rather than the scaremongering.
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #85 - Jun 16th, 2011 at 8:13pm
 
Maqqa wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 7:05pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 14th, 2011 at 1:46pm:
The Gillard government has a severe issue with communication and its ability to sell its policies.  

Take the Carbon Tax for example.  Now, what we know is that the vast majority of Australians understand that man made climate change is real.  Hence why the agenda from both parties has moved past the "science" and now we are debating the action to take.  The majority of people understand that direct action has been tried and failed. Yet, people still don't support the Carbon Tax? Why?  



And MAN only contributes about 3% of it

The lefties are telling us that Man-made carbon is somehow different from nature-made carbon

IT'S THE SAME FREAKIN CARBON





The GALP don't even know what carbon dioxide is!
Classic example of the dumb Greens telling the (even) dumber ALP what the policy is.

When they do they will realise that we need more Co2 not less!
Or have the Greens suddenly changed their policy on saving Trees?
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #86 - Jun 16th, 2011 at 8:37pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2011 at 8:10pm:
I can't imagine they could have done much better. They had to release it some time. Better to give people time to get used to the idea. That way when they release the details the debate will focus on the details rather than the scaremongering.


Unless of course people have already made up their minds thanks to the fearmongering and stop listening.

It is an interesting point however. Are people ignoring all the reports etc because they are waiting for the final detail, or are they ignoring them because they've simply had enough of a debate that has run poorly for the government?

Freediver, I am totally for long term political policies, and policies that aim to bring society together on solving an issue; which the Carbon Tax does with the compensation elements.  I just don't understand why they needed to go back to the "moral challenge/climate change is real" debate all over again, using science and terms that normal people not out to prove anything to anyone just don't understand, or care to understand?  Can this policy not be introduced in any other way?

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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #87 - Jun 16th, 2011 at 8:38pm
 
creep wrote on Jun 16th, 2011 at 8:13pm:
The GALP don't even know what carbon dioxide is!
Classic example of the dumb Greens telling the (even) dumber ALP what the policy is.

When they do they will realise that we need more Co2 not less!
Or have the Greens suddenly changed their policy on saving Trees?


Thank you for your contribution. It was duly noted, printed out, shredded, and the remains burnt. Smiley  There's your carbon dioxide for you Smiley
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #88 - Jun 16th, 2011 at 8:43pm
 
Alevine can you give some examples of where the ALP has framed it in those terms?
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The Wrong Message on the Carbon Tax
Reply #89 - Jun 16th, 2011 at 8:47pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2011 at 8:43pm:
Alevine can you give some examples of where the ALP has framed it in those terms?


How many times has she said she believes in the Carbon Tax because Climate Change is Real? How many times have they said "Climate Change is Real, and the only parties opposing it are the liberal and national parties." 
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