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Yes I had considered posting that, but I didn't want to wind up PJ too much. It may also lead to a breakdown in international cooperation regarding catch quotas, but that may not matter if there is enough protection. Also, see PJs comments re hugging the coast - he kind of oversimiplifies it, but it is still a valid point.

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Yeah, good luck with that. Who should we give 90% of our water to?

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I'm not resistant at all. It was more what PJ was implying about wild catches that interested me.

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Does it naturally live there? Not all change need automatically be interpretted as bad PJ, especially if they are not a target species. In fact it is fairly obvious that many non-targetted species are going to decline in a no take zone. Just because they are cute and cuddly doesn't mean they deserve special consideration, otherwise people might mistake you for a tree hugging hippy.

Mainly I'm swayed by the anecdotal evidence of my own experience. I'm in no doubt that fish stocks have dropped since more recreational fisherman have taken to very well equipped boats, the ever increasing efficiency of method and technology by professionals and the evidence of talking to oldtimers.

Fine - think what you want. If a person has made up their mind to overfishing then nothing will change their minds!

There's a lot more people spear fishing species like blue groper

That's been banned for years!

and yes the bastard Japanese and they exist, so do the bastard Spanish and there's even poachers funded by outlaw motorcycle gangs.

OFF THE Coast of California there's the increasing presence of Humboldt squid which are filling the niches left by the disappearance of large predator fish. Europeasn fleets are plundering far and wide off African and asian coasts

Yawn - whats that go to do with Australia?

and we face the prospect of reefs like the Gtreat barrier dieing from global warming. Things aint apples I tell yer

And what will marine parks do about that?

http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_ocean_clear_cutting/?copy
In two days, UN policy-makers are meeting to review the impacts of this deadly practice. Pacific island nations are fighting to save the oceans and have appealed to Avaaz members to stand with them. This is our chance to win -- if enough of us speak out now, it will strengthen their hand against big fishing countries, and will embolden serious players like the US and Australia, who have already banned bottom-trawling in their waters, to push for protection everywhere.

Let's build an urgent call to stop the senseless destruction of our oceans -- and delegates will deliver our voices directly to the UN meeting. Sign now and help us reach half a million voices in the next 48 hours:


Massive fishing trawlers systematically move from one deep-sea ecosystem to another, crushing coral reefs, sucking up all living creatures and leaving vast deserts behind them that won’t regenerate for hundreds of years. In a single swoop, some boats are capable of clearing an area the size of 5000 football pitches. Canada, Russia and Spain lead the world in spreading this destruction throughout our most diverse and precious waters.

Already, major fishing nations have had 6 years to study the effects of bottom-trawling and move towards more sustainable practices. Most have failed to live up to their commitments to ocean protection and continue to direct huge subsidies -- over 162 million dollars a year -- to ocean clear-cuts.

Well sure, some people might like to 'sign' the petition. No harm in that is there?

pjb05 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2011 at 9:04pm:


'Australian fish', do they know? One big difference between land and water is the relatively 'all joined upness' of the water.'

Anyway the thread opened thus.

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pjb05 wrote on Sep 16^th, 2011 at 5:45pm:


'Australian fish', do they know? One big difference between land and water is the relatively 'all joined upness' of the water.'

We have a 200 nm EEZ. Very few of our fished species migrate outside that range.

Anyway the thread opened thus.

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One passing mention to World fisheries - which we don't have jurastiction over! [/quote]

Maybe no jurisdiction, but we can have a say, both as individuals and as a state.

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PJ, you expect as to take your personal experience as some kind of gospel truth, yet you reject any anecdotal evidence from others.

I have put up scientific as well as a small amount of anecdotal evidence. The latter comes from direct personal experience. I doubt if Grey has any direct experience to base his anecdotes nor you. Eg the hordes of rec fishermen in SE Qld pinging the depths for snapper with their unfair echo-sounders. Do you fish for snapper FD? Do you have a boat with ech-sounder? Quote:


Not everywhere.

Really? Where are you allowed to spear groper?

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You mean he was able to come up with one single example, which the anti marine park mob now attempt to make a ludicrous generalisation from?

Yes funny that seeing he was only looking at Tasmanian marine parks. I also recall puting up other papers which postulated such negative effects.

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Who does?

Other countries in their own EEZ's. In International waters it depends on agreements between countries via various fisheries commissions.

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And you kept complaining that I did not 'respond' to your memories of a lot of fishing boats 30 years ago, as if it was some kind of compelling evidence.

It's a useful observation, and not just my own. I have heard other fishermen say exactly the same.

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It is nothing to do with fairness PJ. It is a simple (and to most people, obvious) point about the impact of technology.

Yes but you seem oblivious to the point that good sounders were around 30 years ago and that a sounder is not a huge advantage in catching them.

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I have speared snapper before, though I do not target them. I bought my first sounder very recently.

So you admit you have no direct experence to back up your anecdote?

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Well for starters there is QLD. Not that I have actually seen groper up there, but if you do see one you can spear it.

Don't you think that there is a chance that there is no spearfishing ban on blue groper in Qld because they are not found there?

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Yes PJ, a whole lot of postulating, and a single actual example. Sounds more like the execption that proves the rule to me.

Two examples counting the monk seal. And given that the benefits of marine parks are largely theoretical you point is rather ironic.