Australian Politics Forum - Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott...

BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott...
Reply #15 - May 30^th, 2011 at 8:16pm

Maqqa wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:10pm:

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:05pm:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1305806618

Quote:

I have looked up the Liberal policy on carbon dioxide reduction. It is not a tax on everyone. It is market based (purchasing the cheapest 10%). Naturally, it would cost a tenth of the Government's scheme which is a tax on every tonne.

Can you elaborate please Soren? Other than the carbon tax, there is nothing 'market based' at all about coalition policy, and all independent analyses I have seen of coalition policy put the cost per tonne as much higher than Labor's.

Quote:

the Coalition would target the cheapest 13 million tonnes of emissions reduction available in the country and buy them directly.

Is a coalition government going to enter into a contract with me to switch my lights off more often? Or switch to products with a lower carbon footprint? Or fly less? Or live closer to work? This is what makes a lie of the coalition's claim of a 'market based' mechanism. It is anything but.

Could you provide these references that you've read pls

Hey, freediver, are you applying for the position of maqquas slave?

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott...
Reply #16 - May 30^th, 2011 at 8:18pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:16pm:

Maqqa wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:10pm:

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:05pm:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1305806618

Quote:

I have looked up the Liberal policy on carbon dioxide reduction. It is not a tax on everyone. It is market based (purchasing the cheapest 10%). Naturally, it would cost a tenth of the Government's scheme which is a tax on every tonne.

Can you elaborate please Soren? Other than the carbon tax, there is nothing 'market based' at all about coalition policy, and all independent analyses I have seen of coalition policy put the cost per tonne as much higher than Labor's.

Quote:

the Coalition would target the cheapest 13 million tonnes of emissions reduction available in the country and buy them directly.

Is a coalition government going to enter into a contract with me to switch my lights off more often? Or switch to products with a lower carbon footprint? Or fly less? Or live closer to work? This is what makes a lie of the coalition's claim of a 'market based' mechanism. It is anything but.

Could you provide these references that you've read pls

Hey, freediver, are you applying for the position of maqquas slave?

Right on queue the resident self bestowed extremist Greenie tries to discourage facts from coming out

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott... Reply #17 - May 30^th, 2011 at 8:21pm ..the blues came out of adversity maqqa so don't have a demon baby you absolute joke!!!!
Back to top	Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) IP Logged

Soren

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Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott...
Reply #18 - May 30^th, 2011 at 8:21pm

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:05pm:

Can you elaborate please Soren?

Let us know which part/s of this you don't understand and we'll take it from there:

The third option is what the Coalition has called direct action, but what is more technically known as abatement purchasing. This primarily rests on incentives, not penalties. Rather than taxing all 10 tonnes of a firm's emissions simply to get them down to 9 tonnes, the government will directly buy back just 1 tonne from a firm. But it will do it through a market to find the lowest cost reductions.
So instead of having to raise $4.5bn in taxes across the entire economy to dampen emissions by 13 million tonnes (again Treasury's exact figures), the Coalition would target the cheapest 13 million tonnes of emissions reduction available in the country and buy them directly. We have allowed $300 million, for example, but the total cost would probably be $200m.
The government has tried to argue that abatement purchasing is somehow not a market. It is and it has a strong intellectual heritage in Australia and overseas.
In Australia, it is exactly how the ALP government buys back water licences by tendering for the lowest cost water from willing sellers. It is very close to how the NSW greenhouse gas abatement system operates and it is what Premier John Brumby is proposing in Victoria with a rumoured start date of October.
Abatement purchasing is also the heart of the UN's Clean Development Mechanism, but you won't hear that from the government.

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creep

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Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott...
Reply #19 - May 30^th, 2011 at 8:24pm

Maqqa wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:18pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:16pm:

Maqqa wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:10pm:

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:05pm:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1305806618

Quote:

I have looked up the Liberal policy on carbon dioxide reduction. It is not a tax on everyone. It is market based (purchasing the cheapest 10%). Naturally, it would cost a tenth of the Government's scheme which is a tax on every tonne.

Can you elaborate please Soren? Other than the carbon tax, there is nothing 'market based' at all about coalition policy, and all independent analyses I have seen of coalition policy put the cost per tonne as much higher than Labor's.

Quote:

the Coalition would target the cheapest 13 million tonnes of emissions reduction available in the country and buy them directly.

Is a coalition government going to enter into a contract with me to switch my lights off more often? Or switch to products with a lower carbon footprint? Or fly less? Or live closer to work? This is what makes a lie of the coalition's claim of a 'market based' mechanism. It is anything but.

Could you provide these references that you've read pls

Hey, freediver, are you applying for the position of maqquas slave?

Right on queue the resident self bestowed extremist Greenie tries to discourage facts from coming out

lol
aka troll lol

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott... Reply #20 - May 30^th, 2011 at 8:40pm oh noes: we're going to argue about what a troll is for 5 billion characters or so.... oh noes everybody hold your hands up and give in!!!
Back to top	Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) IP Logged

freediver

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Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott...
Reply #21 - May 30^th, 2011 at 9:19pm

Quote:

Could you provide these references that you've read pls

Here is a good place to start:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/coalition-climate-change-policy.html#greg-hunt...

Quote:

Let us know which part/s of this you don't understand and we'll take it from there:

This bit for starters:

Quote:

It is market based

- but if you had read the rest of the post that would have been obvious.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott... Reply #22 - May 31^st, 2011 at 12:49am I'M INTERESTED IN FOLLWING THIS..... SO BUMPEY TIMES!!!
Back to top	Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) IP Logged

cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott... Reply #23 - May 31^st, 2011 at 6:17am hey FD I see you read this thread.. thats good when are you going to do something about the idiot that keeps spamming the threads.. he is spoiling it and you let him.. WHY.. is he you son?
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PlayersPlay

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Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott...
Reply #24 - Jun 7^th, 2011 at 6:49pm

Soren wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:21pm:

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 8:05pm:

Can you elaborate please Soren?

Let us know which part/s of this you don't understand and we'll take it from there:

The third option is what the Coalition has called direct action, but what is more technically known as abatement purchasing. This primarily rests on incentives, not penalties. Rather than taxing all 10 tonnes of a firm's emissions simply to get them down to 9 tonnes, the government will directly buy back just 1 tonne from a firm. But it will do it through a market to find the lowest cost reductions.
So instead of having to raise $4.5bn in taxes across the entire economy to dampen emissions by 13 million tonnes (again Treasury's exact figures), the Coalition would target the cheapest 13 million tonnes of emissions reduction available in the country and buy them directly. We have allowed $300 million, for example, but the total cost would probably be $200m.
The government has tried to argue that abatement purchasing is somehow not a market. It is and it has a strong intellectual heritage in Australia and overseas.
In Australia, it is exactly how the ALP government buys back water licences by tendering for the lowest cost water from willing sellers. It is very close to how the NSW greenhouse gas abatement system operates and it is what Premier John Brumby is proposing in Victoria with a rumoured start date of October.
Abatement purchasing is also the heart of the UN's Clean Development Mechanism, but you won't hear that from the government.

SUBSIDISE OR TAX: ABBOTT DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE SHOULD DO AND THAT IS A SPLIT BABY! A LEADER OF A MAJOR POLITICAL PARTY CAN'T AFFORD TO BE THIS COMPROMISED AND THE REST OF THE PARTY KNOW IT!!! Shocked

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Now! How...?

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Equitist

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Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott...
Reply #25 - Jun 7^th, 2011 at 7:26pm

What Abbott is proposing is so open to fraud and corruption that it would make the home insulation scheme fraudsters look legit!

Think Howard and Costello's Timbercorp and other defunct schemers...

$10 Billion potentially wasted on poorly positioned and otherwise environmentally inappropriate monocultural plantations...planted by welfare and other low paid slaves under dodgy 'employment' programs...predominantly located on land owned by Lib/Nat members in marginal Coalition electorates...

Not a good idea - especially if implemented by the Coalition...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Equitist

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Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott...
Reply #26 - Jun 7^th, 2011 at 7:48pm

Buying back dodgy water leases is bad enough - but subsidised plantations on privately-owned land would be fraught with upfront claims processing issues and initial ecosystem analysis, planning, propagation, planting and nurturing (i.e. implementation supervision) issues - and then ongoing long-term compliance issues...

The scope for corruption, fraud, non-compliance and bureaucratic inefficiencies would be almost infinite...

It would be infinitely better for land to be acquired by the Govt and then incorporated into a network of Nationally and/or State owned and managed riparian or other green corridor land rehabilitation zones...

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« Last Edit: Jun 7^th, 2011 at 7:53pm by Equitist »

Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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cods

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Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott...
Reply #27 - Jun 7^th, 2011 at 9:40pm

Equitist wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 7:48pm:

Buying back dodgy water leases is bad enough - but subsidised plantations on privately-owned land would be fraught with upfront claims processing issues and initial ecosystem analysis, planning, propagation, planting and nurturing (i.e. implementation supervision) issues - and then ongoing long-term compliance issues...

The scope for corruption, fraud, non-compliance and bureaucratic inefficiencies would be almost infinite...

It would be infinitely better for land to be acquired by the Govt and then incorporated into a network of Nationally and/or State owned and managed riparian or other green corridor land rehabilitation zones...

The scope for corruption, fraud, non-compliance and bureaucratic inefficiencies would be almost infinite...

dunno about the nem you are quite happy putting up with it from the State and Fed level of the Labor party up untill now...lol

you wouldnt notice any difference.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50347 At my desk.	Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott... Reply #28 - Jun 7^th, 2011 at 9:57pm Cods are you suggesting it is a good idea because Labor does it too?
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Emma

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Re: Why do the left keep saying that Mr Abbott...
Reply #29 - Jun 7^th, 2011 at 11:56pm

Gotta go with Equitist - no question.!

Its pretty sad, but 'things' haven't really changed much in Australian politics since the days of the old Graziers.

Except for one thing - this government -

.....this most extraordinary mix since I can remember, - led by Ms Gillard, ....is a potent force for change.!!!

And let her get on with tackling this issue

without worthless self-serving interference.

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live every day

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