Australian Politics Forum - Jews kill 12 protesters.

gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Jews kill 12 protesters. Reply #270 - Jun 9^th, 2011 at 5:12pm So, you just ignore posts that disprove or challenge your ideas??? Fanatic much????
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Cliff Richard Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 558	Re: Jews kill 12 protesters. Reply #271 - Jun 9^th, 2011 at 8:20pm zealot much???
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Yadda

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Re: Jews kill 12 protesters.
Reply #272 - Jun 10^th, 2011 at 7:40am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 9^th, 2011 at 4:25pm:

The muslim community leaders have limited power over their communities..only....

A B.S. 'cop out' - like ISLAM itself, deliberately avoiding responsibility for the consequences of the evil they embrace, endorse and encourage.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 9^th, 2011 at 4:25pm:

The muslim imaans can only affect the behaviour of people who attend their mosque....

A B.S. 'cop out' - like ISLAM itself, deliberately avoiding responsibility for the consequences of the evil they embrace, endorse and encourage.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 9^th, 2011 at 4:25pm:

Some of the imaans are the ones causing these problems, true.....but there is no one (except the actual worshippers) to stop them...and since the worshippers believe what the imaan tell them....that gets a little tricky..

A B.S. 'cop out' - like ISLAM itself, deliberately avoiding responsibility for the consequences of the evil they embrace, endorse and encourage.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 9^th, 2011 at 4:25pm:

And the ONLY people responsible for the bad and violent behaviour of 'some muslim' is THOSE muslim themselves...

A B.S. 'cop out' - like ISLAM itself, deliberately avoiding responsibility for the consequences of the evil they embrace, endorse and encourage.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 9^th, 2011 at 4:25pm:

That's what you don't seem to get.....if ONE person commits a crime or violent act, then THAT person is the only one, ultimately, responsible for that act...Not his brother, not the guy next door, not the guy behind him at the supermarket or the person next to him during worship....JUST the person who DID the deed...

Blaming everyone else that the criminal ever met, or talked to or who has the same hair/eye colour is stupid....

If a person commits a hit and run in a white commodore, should we assume that everyone with a white commodore is a hit and run driver?????

My response to your fallacious argument; "Your accusation, is guilt by association.",
is here....

"Jews kill 12 protesters."
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1305553526/247#247
Quote:

B.S., B.S., B.S.

gizmo,

If most moslems were good people...

They would not associate themselves with ISLAM.

They would separate themselves from ISLAM.

They certainly, would not defend ISLAM, nor, be an apologist for ISLAM.

AND HERE...

Quote:

gizmo,

Radical ISLAM is NOT the problem .....ISLAM, is......

+++

ISLAM, does not come in 'radical' or 'vanilla'.

ISLAM, is ISLAM.

ISLAM is evil, ISLAM is a death cult.

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

+++

Every moslem, by self declaring as a moslem, is self declaring a criminal intent [by our laws] against local non-moslems.

Why so ???

Because ISLAM 'sanctifies', and 'legitimises', all manner of violence against 'unbelievers' - as 'lawful' to moslems.

Who is a moslem ???

A moslem is a person who declares;

"I am a moslem. Allah is my God, and Mohammed is his prophet."

Who is a moslem ???

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy, ISLAM, which tells moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those who do not believe, as they believe.

From what i know, from my study, of ISLAM's own texts, and doctrines, i confidently make this statement;

Every good moslem in Australia [and indeed, every good moslem on the planet], by self declaring as a moslem, is self declaring a criminal intent [by our laws] against local non-moslems.

Every moslem!

Every non-moslem should be aware and recognise, that ISLAM is in fact, a criminal compact among moslems, to wage a violent 'religious' war against ALL non-moslems ['unbelievers'].

And in my estimation, every moslem does understand what his/her 'religious' OBLIGATION is, to ISLAM, to Allah, and to fellow moslems.

The contents of the Koran and Hadith, and the unguarded words of moslems themselves,
....ARE A WITNESS AGAINST THEMSELVES.

e.g.

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods;....they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:..."
Koran 9.111

Google;
"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad"

But just keep rejecting the truth gizmo.

I know that you cannot help yourself, in that regard.

You are compelled to refuse it to acknowledge it.

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« Last Edit: Jun 10^th, 2011 at 8:05am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 22069 A cat with a view	Re: Jews kill 12 protesters. Reply #273 - Jun 10^th, 2011 at 8:37am gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 9^th, 2011 at 5:12pm: So, you just ignore posts that disprove or challenge your ideas??? Fanatic much???? You wish! In your dreams.
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Yadda

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Re: Jews kill 12 protesters.
Reply #274 - Jun 10^th, 2011 at 8:50am

Yadda wrote on Jun 10^th, 2011 at 7:40am:

Who is a moslem ???

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy, ISLAM, which tells moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those who do not believe, as they believe.

ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110

n.b. "Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

"...A harbi has no rights, not even the right to live."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbi

Who, or what, is a harbi ???

Harbi is an Arabic/ISLAMIC word, it means "one under a declaration of war".

n.b.
"....those who reject Allah have no protector."

Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

As Anjem Choudary - a UK moslem community leader reveals, the UK is open for Jihad 'operations';

KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE
"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

Attack on London 'inevitable'
April 19, 2004
"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326119414.html?from=storyrhs&on...

N.B.
"...the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren

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Re: Jews kill 12 protesters.
Reply #275 - Jun 10^th, 2011 at 9:27am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 9^th, 2011 at 3:35pm:

The big problem is, there is NO central authority within Islam (as far as I can find, maybe Abu would know)....so there's really no one TO 'condemn' the opinions of other teachers or Imaans.....or, given the attitude of Western media, perhaps there's no one to report said condemnation???

For all we know...Imaans all over the world might be ranting and complaining about 'radical' Islam, ever day...but if it's ignored by media who like 'profiling' as much as you seem to....then we'd never know about it, would we???

Of course there is central authority by which all Muslims orient their lives. Mohammed is the "alpha and omega". And it shows, of course. Islam is the way it is and Muslims are the way the are because Mohammed is their ultimate example and central authority and guide to every aspect of life.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Jews kill 12 protesters.
Reply #276 - Jun 10^th, 2011 at 2:08pm

Soren wrote on Jun 10^th, 2011 at 9:27am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 9^th, 2011 at 3:35pm:

The big problem is, there is NO central authority within Islam (as far as I can find, maybe Abu would know)....so there's really no one TO 'condemn' the opinions of other teachers or Imaans.....or, given the attitude of Western media, perhaps there's no one to report said condemnation???

For all we know...Imaans all over the world might be ranting and complaining about 'radical' Islam, ever day...but if it's ignored by media who like 'profiling' as much as you seem to....then we'd never know about it, would we???

Of course there is central authority by which all Muslims orient their lives. Mohammed is the "alpha and omega". And it shows, of course. Islam is the way it is and Muslims are the way the are because Mohammed is their ultimate example and central authority and guide to every aspect of life.

Yes, but you can't ring him up or write him a letter, can you???

By 'central authority' I mean something silmilar to the Vatican ( Pope and Cardinals) or even Bishops, Archbishops, Dioces etc...

Maybe 'earthly central authority' might have been a better way to put it...

I'll have to ask Abu and find out if there is such a thing...

Given human nature, there's a lot of room for interpretation of Mohammad's example of how to live....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Yadda

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Re: Jews kill 12 protesters.
Reply #277 - Jun 11^th, 2011 at 2:17pm

"Jews kill 12 protesters"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1305553526/256#256

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

+++

In referring to the term 'strangers' used in my post [linked] above....

gizmo said,

Quote:

Point 1) 'Stranger' and 'Unbeliever' do not mean the same thing..

What are you suggesting gizmo ???

Perhaps, that those referred to as 'strangers' in the OT books of Moses, were Hebrew 'cousins', visiting from distant lands ???

I would argue that the term 'stranger', used in the OT Bible, and the term 'unbeliever', within the Koran, do indeed mean the same thing gizmo.

The term 'stranger', used in the the law of Moses in the OT Bible, refers to those persons who are NOT of 'the children of Israel', persons who are NOT of 'the congregation of Israel'.

In the same way that the term 'unbeliever', when it is used in the Koran means, a non-moslem, an 'infidel'.

Those terms, from the Koran and the Bible, both refer to those persons, who are regarded as unclean, and unholy, 'infidels'.

Dictionary;
infidel = = a person who has no religion or whose religion is not that of the majority.

Bible verses which support that conclusion...

Exodus 12:43
And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
.....
47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.

Exodus 29:33
And they shall eat those things wherewith the atonement was made, to consecrate and to sanctify them: but a stranger shall not eat thereof, because they are holy.
[i.e. the food, is holy]

Leviticus 22:12
If the priest's daughter also be married unto a stranger, she may not eat of an offering of the holy things.

Dietary laws, apply to the children of Israel...

Deuteronomy 14:21
Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God....

Deuteronomy 23:19
Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:
20 Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury:....

All of those verses make it clear that the term 'stranger' [used in the OT Bible], refers to a person who is separate from 'the congregation of Israel'.

As an aside...
Notice the tolerance implied in Moses law [implied in Leviticus 22:12, above], in comparison to the in-tolerance required by Allah....

"......Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe:...."
Koran 2.221

+++

'Let us naive Westerners prove how righteous and tolerant we are, by showing moslems how tolerant we can be of ISLAMIC cultural practices.'
/sarc off

Quote:

Murder girl's five cries for help that were ignored
By FIONA BARTON and STEPHEN WRIGHT
11th June 2007
Five police officers are under investigation after a series of terrible blunders left a young Muslim woman at the mercy of killers in her own family.
....It also emerged that in the two months before her death she had warned police four times that she believed her family wanted to murder her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-461280/Murder-girls-cries-help-ignored.h...

Many young moslem women are murdered by family members [especially in Western nations], because they seek to escape the stifling control ISLAM imposes on their lives [control and threats which are applied by male family members].

And young moslem women in particular are being targeted, because of their vulnerability, and powerlessness.

These young women are being killed by 'righteous' moslem men, because these young moslem women are vulnerable, and powerless.

Google,

muslim honour killings uk

Though the term 'honour killing' is in 'popular' use in the MSM [media], it is a misnomer.

Every 'honour killing' [of young moslem women] is justified by moslem perpetrators, as the 'righteous' killing of an 'apostate'/rebel.

And ISLAMIC religious texts declare, that moslems can 'lawfully' kill 'unbelievers'/apostates,

The Hadith,
"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 109409 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Jews kill 12 protesters. Reply #278 - Jun 11^th, 2011 at 3:12pm Yadda, Quote: The Hadith, "...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260 This is why I want to discard all religion because it can be used as justification to kill people.
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Yadda

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Re: Jews kill 12 protesters.
Reply #279 - Jun 11^th, 2011 at 3:50pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 11^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Yadda,
Quote:

The Hadith,
"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

This is why I want to discard all religion because
it can be used as justification to kill people.

bobby,

Relax.

I will not cut your head off for being an infidel.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Bobby.

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Re: Jews kill 12 protesters.
Reply #280 - Jun 12^th, 2011 at 9:41am

Yadda wrote on Jun 11^th, 2011 at 3:50pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 11^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Yadda,
Quote:

The Hadith,
"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

This is why I want to discard all religion because
it can be used as justification to kill people.

bobby,

Relax.

I will not cut your head off for being an infidel.

Thanks Yadda - but plenty of other religious zealots would like to. Shocked

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 109409 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Jews kill 12 protesters. Reply #281 - Jun 12^th, 2011 at 12:22pm I am so fed up with religion - if it's not a Muslim banging his head on the ground 5 times a day it's a Jew bashing his head against the wailing wall or a Christian bashing a Bible saying - you're all sinners. We should have progressed by now - it's 2011.
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