Australian Politics Forum - Is Atheism a Religion?

muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #75 - May 8^th, 2011 at 11:00am

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Yes, I agree, there's something special about life, especially sentient human life. I don't think I've yet disagreed with the intended meaning of your ideas of (what to call it??) the 'god factor'. But I'm not comfortable with the usurpation of religious terms by their redefinition, any more than I'd agree with the notion of redefining, say, hydrolysis to mean 'the process of finding an immanent god'.

Caution with crowds... As (I believe) Martin Luther King once observed, crowds/groups generally act less morally than individuals.

There are a lot more people than you think who call themselves Christians and Jews, and if they are true to themselves, they really believe that God (and Christ) is immanent in the sense that I used.

Dawkins describes quite a few people, some of them religious officials, who did not believe in God the creator, but instead believe in God within us (immanuel). (They also believe that religion is good for you) Have you noticed how the words soul, spirit and God (Christ) are often interchanged in many traditional religions ? (even in the West)

I don't agree with Dawkins, but he makes some good points.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #76 - May 8^th, 2011 at 11:05am

muso wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 11:00am:

There are a lot more people than you think who call themselves Christians and Jews, and if they are true to themselves, they really believe that God (and Christ) is immanent in the sense that I used.

Dawkins describes quite a few people, some of them religious officials, who did not believe in God the creator, but instead believe in God within us (immanuel). (They also believe that religion is good for you) Have you noticed how the words soul, spirit and God (Christ) are often interchanged in many traditional religions ? (even in the West)

I don't agree with Dawkins, but he makes some good points.

Maybe they're on there way to atheism... Caught up as they are in transmogrifying their belief in the existence of god to disbelief by usurping religious terms to mean what you mean by god... Maybe it betrays their underlying sense of guilt or embarrassment for having abandoned their once fast-held faith.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #77 - May 8^th, 2011 at 4:14pm I've no doubt that 'atheism' is on the rise.
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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #78 - May 10^th, 2011 at 8:16am Quote: I've no doubt that 'atheism' is on the rise. Atheism is on the realisation. There's no "God is truth", or "Atheism is truth". It's just what is and what works. No need to invent competitions that mean nothing.
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #79 - May 10^th, 2011 at 3:52pm Helian, Some time ago, somebody posted a You-tube video which contrasted the Eastern religions with those of the West. I skimmed through it at the time. I wish I could find it. It was the history (or the origins) of religion or something like that.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #80 - May 10^th, 2011 at 8:22pm

muso wrote on May 10^th, 2011 at 3:52pm:

It was the history (or the origins) of religion or something like that.

Mate, the history of our (western) religions is the story of our progression from our mythos... And that's true for cultures.

Just like the protestant (Anglican) clerics (you refer to in your previous post) are doing.

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« Last Edit: May 10^th, 2011 at 8:40pm by NorthOfNorth »

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Grey

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #81 - May 10^th, 2011 at 9:42pm

See religion in terms of environment and the human relationship to it. What do you see in Europe? A pantheist and generally grateful worship. It's icons are woman and fertility, the Earth Mother, the sheaf of grain grass, and even the aesthetic, the 'sacred grove'. Much of that pantheism we see reflected in aboriginal culture. they too have 'sacred groves'. Places that are sacred because - isn't it obvious, ( the force is strong here).

And what do we see over there in the desert? A harsh environment, with a god to match. And where do they look for that god? Up, up into the night sky when the miracle of the twinkling stars gives relief from the blistering day. Up to where we'd like to be when death comes ...mercifully. What are the icons? The scimitar moon, the cross, (the tortured death instrument. Small wonder that the one god of the sky should conquer the the sprites of wood, field and running water with their sacred groves and soft peoples.

And what of our modern environment? With our knowledge of the physical and the self, is it any wonder we turn from gods? When we grw up we put away childish things. We KNOW the enemy, and the friend and they are us.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #82 - May 10^th, 2011 at 11:48pm

What you said, Grey...

Deep within our (collective) psyche, our ancient 'gods' still call to us, rattle us and drive us upwards, on to the heights of Olympia and beyond, in our dreams.

They're fantasises, and most of us in the west know that now... But their echoes are beautiful anyway.

And theism is not required to return us there... We're only a birth of a child, or a lucid dream of youth, away.

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Emma

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #83 - May 11^th, 2011 at 12:41am

Lovely words Grey.
But - are you talking about today? The present?

Have you seen this in Europe? That's encouraging.

" What do you see in Europe? A pantheist and generally grateful worship. It's icons are woman and fertility, the Earth Mother, the sheaf of grain grass, and even the aesthetic, the 'sacred grove'."
Although .... I'd call it Animism, not Pantheism. A bit more down to earth than that!!!

Much of that pantheism we see reflected in aboriginal culture. they too have 'sacred groves'. Places that are sacred because - isn't it obvious, ( the force is strong here).
Yep - that's Animism.

"Small wonder that the one god of the sky should conquer the the sprites of wood, field and running water with their sacred groves and soft peoples.
Speak for yourself - I don't accept your Sky God.!

And what of our modern environment? With our knowledge of the physical and the self, is it any wonder we turn from gods?" .
No wonder at all, not from the gods, or God. Roll Eyes

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muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #84 - May 12^th, 2011 at 9:07am

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 10^th, 2011 at 8:22pm:

muso wrote on May 10^th, 2011 at 3:52pm:

It was the history (or the origins) of religion or something like that.

Mate, the history of our (western) religions is the story of our progression from our mythos... And that's true for cultures.

Just like the protestant (Anglican) clerics (you refer to in your previous post) are doing.

I found it. It was Amadd who posted it:

From the Power of Myth - Joseph Campbell.

There is a section in there that is very true about Abrahamic religion. I'll see if I can find it. It says some thing like "good/evil ... nice religion."

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #85 - May 13^th, 2011 at 6:23am muso wrote on May 12^th, 2011 at 9:07am: From the Power of Myth - Joseph Campbell. There is a section in there that is very true about Abrahamic religion. I'll see if I can find it. It says some thing like "good/evil ... nice religion." Looks like it was taken down due to copyright infringement.
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Soren

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #86 - May 24^th, 2011 at 9:38pm

The Birth of Religion
We used to think agriculture gave rise to cities and later to writing, art, and religion. Now the world’s oldest temple suggests the urge to worship sparked civilization.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text/1

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #87 - May 26^th, 2011 at 6:07am

Soren wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 9:38pm:

The Birth of Religion
We used to think agriculture gave rise to cities and later to writing, art, and religion. Now the world’s oldest temple suggests the urge to worship sparked civilization.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text/1

Quote:

I don't believe just 'cos ideas are tenacious, it means they are worthy

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Amadd

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #88 - May 26^th, 2011 at 9:41am

After reading Netanyahu's speech, I'm convinced that the religious need to understand the meaning of atheism.
That guy will go down in history as the most useless character since Jesus Christ.
He is an an infant in the eyes of humanity; a moron in the eyes of infants.

He keeps repeating that he and the jewish doctrine are better than anything else on the face of the earth.
They may not believe it, but the rest of the world believes that God never told them that they were the "chosen race".i

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« Last Edit: May 26^th, 2011 at 5:01pm by Amadd »

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Soren

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #89 - May 26^th, 2011 at 11:02pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 26^th, 2011 at 6:07am:

Soren wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 9:38pm:

The Birth of Religion
We used to think agriculture gave rise to cities and later to writing, art, and religion. Now the world’s oldest temple suggests the urge to worship sparked civilization.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text/1

Quote:

I don't believe just 'cos ideas are tenacious, it means they are worthy

Yet he's looking forward to Christmas.

The guy is as confused as any other guitar-strumming perpetual adolescent.

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