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Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation? (Read 48648 times)
Foolosophy
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #120 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:14pm
 
THERE IT IS AGAIN

THAT WAFTING PUTRID FOUL STENCH

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Sappho
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #121 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:22pm
 
Soren wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:02pm:
The 'gods' are limited by the fact that they are many. If there are many then there has to be One that rules them all, as it were.


My vote goes to Zeus.  Cheesy

Although....

Quote:
To the Christians' God by the way, it's just as bad to believe in the wrong God as no God at all. The idea of other Gods is of course ridiculous to Christians. Supernatural poppycock. As if there was ever a Zeus; stupid, ancient, unenlightened superstition. And even if there are other Gods (which of course there aren't) then the Christians' God is the best. Hardest, smartest... just better. He would laugh at Zeus and call him a Greek bender. (I doubt that God is racist and homophobic but the Bible isn't clear.

source

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Soren
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #122 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:28pm
 
WHat does Karl Pilkington say on the matter?

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muso
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #123 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 2:42pm:
Helian and Grey, if a person believes that God does not exist, are they an atheist?

Why is this question so hard to answer?


I don't think it's hard to answer. At least I don't have any stake in the matter, so here goes.

A person who believes that Gods don't exist is an Atheist, however an Atheist is not necessarily a person who believes that Gods don't exist.

Can you follow that? It's like saying that a dog is an animal, but an animal is not necessarily a dog.
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Sappho
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #124 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:31pm
 
Soren wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:28pm:
WHat does Karl Pilkington say on the matter?



Who cares... I've just learnt that he did the The Ricky Gervais Show podcasts.

I'm off to do some downloads.  Wink
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longweekend58
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #125 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:33pm
 
Grey wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 4:18pm:
Not believing an absurd proposition that doesn't have an iota of supporting evidence isn't a religion, it's a sensible position. Not being taken in by a Nigerian scam email isn't a religion either; spreading the word that it's a con isn't a religion either, it's an ethical thing to do.


The supporting evidence exists but as usual, people like you dont accept it. And that would be because there IS NOT STANDARD of proof you would accept.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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muso
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #126 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:34pm
 
Sappho wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:31pm:
Soren wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:28pm:
WHat does Karl Pilkington say on the matter?



Who cares... I've just learnt that he did the The Ricky Gervais Show podcasts.

I'm off to do some downloads.  Wink


Are you an Algit too?
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muso
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #127 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:35pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 12:33pm:
Soren wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 12:32pm:
I think religion is about the metaphysical understaning that binds people together. It is about the scruples and observances of certain metaphysical thing that shape our understanding and therefore our lives.

Borges said something like this: Christians believe god has written two books, the bible and the universe, one to be used to interpret the other.


Pity though that he is thoroughly wrong. Religion is about the pursuit of God. Always has been.


Your Religion is about God. Not all religions are.
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Sappho
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #128 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:39pm
 
muso wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:34pm:
Sappho wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:31pm:
Soren wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:28pm:
WHat does Karl Pilkington say on the matter?



Who cares... I've just learnt that he did the The Ricky Gervais Show podcasts.

I'm off to do some downloads.  Wink


Are you an Algit too?


Lost me there muso... what's an Algit?
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muso
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #129 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:40pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 11:08am:
and the word is ATHEISM - not ANTI-theism. they are different notions entirely.


They are, but in practice, the type of atheists who give a damn about discussions of this kind are anti-theists too.

You should also realise that anti-theist has a different meaning depending on whether or not you're a theist. For an Atheist, an anti-theist is against the concept of god. For a Theist, an anti-theist is an enemy of God.

In fact, all the definitions are pretty rubbery depending on your religion. Would you define a person who believes in God to be religious? What about Deists? If you allow them in the definition of Religions then it changes everything.
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muso
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #130 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:41pm
 
Sappho wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:39pm:
muso wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:34pm:
Sappho wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:31pm:
Soren wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:28pm:
WHat does Karl Pilkington say on the matter?



Who cares... I've just learnt that he did the The Ricky Gervais Show podcasts.

I'm off to do some downloads.  Wink


Are you an Algit too?


Lost me there muso... what's an Algit?


A person who couldn't really give a damn whether or not Gods exist and doesn't waste their time on the subject. The others (Theists and Atheists)  are all analgits.   Tongue
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Sappho
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #131 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:49pm
 
muso wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:41pm:
Sappho wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:39pm:
muso wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:34pm:
Sappho wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:31pm:
Soren wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 5:28pm:
WHat does Karl Pilkington say on the matter?



Who cares... I've just learnt that he did the The Ricky Gervais Show podcasts.

I'm off to do some downloads.  Wink


Are you an Algit too?


Lost me there muso... what's an Algit?


A person who couldn't really give a damn whether or not Gods exist and doesn't waste their time on the subject. The others (Theists and Atheists)  are all analgits.   Tongue


No... I'm an atheist who likes talking about mythologies respectfully... such as Abraham's god or the Hellenistic Pantheon etc...

What you saw was just a little light relief in between discussion.

I don't see why Atheist should be bothered trying to convert the believers into non-believers... nor do I understand why some Atheists assume a radicalised version of faith... when in fact most theists are moderate to the point of lazy with their faith.


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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #132 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 6:09pm
 
Sappho wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 4:36pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 26th, 2011 at 4:19pm:
Helian and Grey, if a person believes that God does not exist, are they an atheist?


Why are you using the singular and not the plural of God? And since you refer to a single God... which God would that be?

As I understand things, Atheism refers to a disbelief in deities. Admittedly, it was once contrast only with the theism of Abraham's God so that atheism was the disbelief in Abraham's God... but has moved on from that to become a more general claim.  


Feel free to qualify your answer any way you want Sappho. The point of the question was to figure out what Helian and Grey meant by disbelief - ie the absence of belief, as in agnosticism, or the opposite belief, as in conventional atheism, or both. They seem to be using the term to avoid acknowledging irrational belief in anyone but religious folk.

I see muso is the only one to actually give an answer. That didn't hurt now did it muso? And your answer does make perfect sense. To follow up, does your definition include agnostics and ignorant people - who are unaware of the concept? Are these the only two groups you would include other than 'people who believe that God does not exist'?
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #133 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 7:50pm
 
Quote:
A person who couldn't really give a damn whether or not Gods exist and doesn't waste their time on the subject. The others (Theists and Atheists)  are all analgits.


And what would you call a person who proffeses not to give a damn but continues to have their say on the subject?  Roll Eyes
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Grey
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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #134 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 8:34pm
 
Quote:
Helian and Grey, if a person believes that God does not exist, are they an atheist?

Why is this question so hard to answer?


freediver#71 - Do you have a word for people who believe that God does not exist?

Grey#72 - Atheism is a belief like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Helian#73 - No. Only one for those who disbelieve the proposition that god exists.

And another word for those who take exception to belief in god.

Grey#75 - Do you have a word for people who believe that tooth fairy does not exist?



freediver#74 How do you duistinguish atheist and agnostic?

Grey #78  Atheists have no belief in god and agnostics concede a faint possibility. Technically most atheists including
Richard Dawkins can be termed agnostic as nothing can be proved to be true or untrue by the mores of science.
You can only prove a thing to be useful to believe or not by experimental verification. For myself I hold the god
hypotheses to be so absurd that that is just quibbling.

Freediver #82 - So atheists believe there is no possibility at all?

Grey      #N/A - Atheists consider the possibility so slight as to be unworthy of consideration at this time. Prof. Dawkins
                  is of this opinion.

Helian #93 - atheists disbelieve the proposition that god exists, nothing more. Anything else, say to 'prove' that
atheists are in fact as religious as theists, is a linguistic sleight of hand often used by theists to 'justify' their
belief in god.

freediver #99 - Helian and Grey, if a person believes that God does not exist, are they an atheist?

Helian #100 - Does anyone actually believe in the existence of the non-existence of god? I've never met anyone who does.

freediver #111 - Helian and Grey, if a person believes that God does not exist, are they an atheist?

Why is this question so hard to answer?

Grey #115 - Ffs change that record.

     #116 - Not believing an absurd proposition that doesn't have an iota of supporting evidence isn't a religion, it's a
sensible position. Not being taken in by a Nigerian scam email isn't a religion either; spreading the word that it's a
con isn't a religion either, it's an ethical thing to do.

freediver #117 If it is such a sensible position, why are you afraid to talk about it?

Helian and Grey, if a person believes that God does not exist, are they an atheist?

That's not a discussion freediver it's a clown dance by a troll. What are you trying
to do, prove the existence of god by destroying my will to live?


Now Longweekend - you have some evidence to present I believe?

 








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