Australian Politics Forum - Is Aunty moving too far right?

Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Is Aunty moving too far right? Reply #45 - Jun 7^th, 2011 at 2:21pm Cliff Richard wrote on Jun 6^th, 2011 at 6:33pm: i love today tonight Really? I thought it would be too left wing for you. Hasn't Fox got something more along your lines? 'Barking at the moon tonight, (with Anne Coulter)'.
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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Is Aunty moving too far right? Reply #46 - Jun 7^th, 2011 at 2:24pm Soren are you saying the guy had a fake Australian passport? That can't be right only Mossad use those.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Is Aunty moving too far right? Reply #47 - Jun 7^th, 2011 at 3:20pm No. I am saying that an Australian passport doesn't make him an Australian. If I went to an African country, say Somalia or the Congo and got their passport, I would not then become a Somali or a Conger [ahem]....
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Grey

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Re: Is Aunty moving too far right?
Reply #48 - Jun 7^th, 2011 at 3:32pm

Soren wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 3:20pm:

No. I am saying that n Australian passport doesn't make him an Australian.

If I went to an African country, say Somalia or the Congo and got their passport, I would not then become a Somali or a Conger [ahem]....

Changing the subject... or maybe not, did you see Australian Story this week Soren? I think you should.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1307424351/0#0

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Big Donger

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Re: Is Aunty moving too far right?
Reply #49 - Jun 8^th, 2011 at 2:30pm

Grey wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 3:50pm:

The left is buggered the world over because it handed the reins to communists. Philip Adams never made money, he did creative things. You might as well disbar Bob Marley because he got money. I don't think that left and right positions, which are problematic in anycase, have much to do with money. MORE A Question of individualism Versus totalitarianism. I think capitalism has more in common with communism than communism has with Anarchism. As an Anarchist I feel more in common with conservative libertarians like Ayn Rand and PJ O Rourke than with communists.

Exactly. It wasn't that communism took over the left - it was that anarchism was taken over by the right.

Anyway, anarchism never really took off - with the exception of Spain in the civil war and a few Russian utopians. Chomsky is probably the most influential anarchist around these days, but that's about it.

In this country, libertarians were more influential than anarchists. They largely became feminists (Germain Greer) or conservatives (Padraic McGuinness). Some went on to become Greens.

Anarchism could never become a political movement because its central platform is the destruction of the state. Therefore, to achieve any political gains, anarchists can only go one way: freemarket liberal democracy.

A few tried becoming Bolsheviks, but look what happened to them.

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« Last Edit: Jun 8^th, 2011 at 2:36pm by Big Donger »

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Grey

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Re: Is Aunty moving too far right?
Reply #50 - Jun 8^th, 2011 at 5:17pm

Quote:

Anarchism could never become a political movement because its central platform is the destruction of the state.

That's not a common denominator. I don't want the destruction of the state. What I do want is for the state of the state to be changed. I don't want a totalitarian authoritarian state that demands the individual rescinds their sovereignty.

I want the state to organise capital to put work where people want it. I want the state to organise the building of roads and hospitals and other national infrastructure.

I don't want the state to be a slagging contest between two gangs of pigs that eat out of the same trough anyway. I don't want a state that sets the rules of engagement for judging whether Bob raped Sheila. We know Bob and Sheila pretty well around here and can judge what went on a lot better than folk in Canberra. And if Sheila and her Dr decide that she should have a termination we reckon that's her affair and shouldn't be decided on the basis of whether the current ruler is a religious nut or not.

I don't want the state to tell us our Council has to almagate with three others so that we get dissed and they get more money and power. I think that what goes on locally is a local issue and none of canberra's goddamn business.

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Soren

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Re: Is Aunty moving too far right?
Reply #51 - Jun 8^th, 2011 at 8:25pm

Grey wrote on Jun 8^th, 2011 at 5:17pm:

Quote:

Anarchism could never become a political movement because its central platform is the destruction of the state.

That's not a common denominator. I don't want the destruction of the state. What I do want is for the state of the state to be changed. I don't want a totalitarian authoritarian state that demands the individual rescinds their sovereignty.

I want the state to organise capital to put work where people want it. I want the state to organise the building of roads and hospitals and other national infrastructure.

I don't want the state to be a slagging contest between two gangs of pigs that eat out of the same trough anyway. I don't want a state that sets the rules of engagement for judging whether Bob raped Sheila. We know Bob and Sheila pretty well around here and can judge what went on a lot better than folk in Canberra. And if Sheila and her Dr decide that she should have a termination we reckon that's her affair and shouldn't be decided on the basis of whether the current ruler is a religious nut or not.

I don't want the state to tell us our Council has to almagate with three others so that we get dissed and they get more money and power. I think that what goes on locally is a local issue and none of canberra's goddamn business.

SOunds like Nationalsozialismus ohne Führerprinzip.

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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Is Aunty moving too far right? Reply #52 - Jun 8^th, 2011 at 11:49pm Huh? Do you have any comprehension skills Soren? Do you read at all.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Is Aunty moving too far right? Reply #53 - Jun 10^th, 2011 at 9:39am Grey wrote on Jun 8^th, 2011 at 11:49pm: Huh? Do you have any comprehension skills Soren? Do you read at all. You want a strong state to organise people's lives and activities without it having a strong head or leader. This is why anarchism is an adolescent fantasy.
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Grey

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Re: Is Aunty moving too far right?
Reply #54 - Jun 10^th, 2011 at 11:35am

Soren wrote on Jun 10^th, 2011 at 9:39am:

Grey wrote on Jun 8^th, 2011 at 11:49pm:

Huh? Do you have any comprehension skills Soren? Do you read at all.

You want a strong state to organise people's lives and activities without it having a strong head or leader. This is why anarchism is an adolescent fantasy.

Facillitation of coperation on building a societies infrastructure isn't
"organising people's lives and activities". The idea of 'strong leader' is a primitive one. It stems from the time the biggest thug called himself King.

There is no advantage to be had from making decisions in an undemocratic way and there are advantages to making decisions in a consensual way. For instance wrong decisions can re rectified without an individual suffering loss of face.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Is Aunty moving too far right? Reply #55 - Jul 5^th, 2011 at 10:39am Pat Condell nails the stupid mongs: "The multiculti leftwing middle class prickocracy!!!" Perfect.
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boogieman

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Re: Is Aunty moving too far right?
Reply #56 - Jul 5^th, 2011 at 12:20pm

Soren wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 9:26pm:

Grey wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 4:32pm:

I can hardly believe my ears listening to 'Counterpoint' sometimes. These guys think keeping paedophiles out of a child care centre is running a nanny state.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/counterpoint/

http://suggest.getup.org.au/forums/60819-campaign-ideas/suggestions/1684971-petition-for-abc-to-return-to-its-charter

What a moronic petition. Your own composition?

If Abbott is ultra-conservative, who is an acceptable, respected conservative?

Abbott? Ultra conservative? Be real. He doesn't have a stance at all. Remember he's the one who said Medicare is our best friend. That's socialist policy and he eats it up.

His only stance is AGAINST. He has no qualms about hypocrisy, lying or betraying others, ever. He has only one interest. Himself. He is a Catholic after all isn't he? Pragmatism before policy were his words last night, again. No stance, ever as he could get nailed if he took one.

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boogieman

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Re: Is Aunty moving too far right?
Reply #57 - Jul 5^th, 2011 at 12:22pm

Soren wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 3:20pm:

No. I am saying that an Australian passport doesn't make him an Australian.

If I went to an African country, say Somalia or the Congo and got their passport, I would not then become a Somali or a Conger [ahem]....

Ahhh, yes. You would. You would need to be a citizen thus you would be Somalian or whatever. A passport does define your nationality mate. That's what they are for.

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boogieman

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Re: Is Aunty moving too far right?
Reply #58 - Jul 5^th, 2011 at 12:23pm

Big Donger wrote on Jun 8^th, 2011 at 2:30pm:

Grey wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 3:50pm:

The left is buggered the world over because it handed the reins to communists. Philip Adams never made money, he did creative things. You might as well disbar Bob Marley because he got money. I don't think that left and right positions, which are problematic in anycase, have much to do with money. MORE A Question of individualism Versus totalitarianism. I think capitalism has more in common with communism than communism has with Anarchism. As an Anarchist I feel more in common with conservative libertarians like Ayn Rand and PJ O Rourke than with communists.

Exactly. It wasn't that communism took over the left - it was that anarchism was taken over by the right.

Anyway, anarchism never really took off - with the exception of Spain in the civil war and a few Russian utopians. Chomsky is probably the most influential anarchist around these days, but that's about it.

In this country, libertarians were more influential than anarchists. They largely became feminists (Germain Greer) or conservatives (Padraic McGuinness). Some went on to become Greens.

Anarchism could never become a political movement because its central platform is the destruction of the state. Therefore, to achieve any political gains, anarchists can only go one way: freemarket liberal democracy.

A few tried becoming Bolsheviks, but look what happened to them.

Wake up dude. Left and right disappeared about 40 years ago. In the West anyway. What Party is "left" in your opinion, today?

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Soren

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Re: Is Aunty moving too far right?
Reply #59 - Jul 5^th, 2011 at 12:59pm

boogieman wrote on Jul 5^th, 2011 at 12:22pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 3:20pm:

No. I am saying that an Australian passport doesn't make him an Australian.

If I went to an African country, say Somalia or the Congo and got their passport, I would not then become a Somali or a Conger [ahem]....

Ahhh, yes. You would. You would need to be a citizen thus you would be Somalian or whatever. A passport does define your nationality mate. That's what they are for.

Nonsense.

The passport you hold doesn't in itself indicate the acculturation you received in your formative years. There is a difference between natives and non-natives in every place. Your nationality is not merely about your travel documents.

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