Australian Politics Forum - Gillard's big day in the sun

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Re: Gillard's big day in the sun
Reply #15 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:04pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 3:35pm:

So cheap laughs aside.
What have you got against the Renewable industry?

I dont have a problem with it smithy but I do have a problem with the way its being sold..

we are being exploited!

when they close all the mines.. which one presumes renewable will eventually do.. what then?????...who will we sell all those megawatts we have collected toooooo.

I mean if this is going to be the way we are going, and its going to cost you and I almost nill to have,

what country is going to avoid having solar energy??.. why would China of all countries not have renewable instead of coal?...and renewable is free or almost to every user....isnt it?????????..

not that I like that word I dont think anything is FREE.

however the idea is we shut the mines down especially the coal industry, not sure how they feel about that but lets hope they are philosphical like the Clyde Oil Refinery that will be closing.

mind you! do you think this has anything to do with our carbon footprint??.. it should make a difference and by golly they wont be paying the TAX anymore than the renewable will be..

I am thinking that will help to keep the price of petrol down wont it??

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Gillard's big day in the sun
Reply #16 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:05pm

Please delete wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 3:58pm:

And we've argued this at length gizmo - why do you keep arguing against solar thermal?

I'm not arguing against it.....I just think nuclear is cheaper and easier....

Since we (the taxpayers) are going to be funding it, I think we should have some say in which energy source they build....

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Bobbythebat

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Re: Gillard's big day in the sun
Reply #17 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:07pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:05pm:

Please delete wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 3:58pm:

And we've argued this at length gizmo - why do you keep arguing against solar thermal?

I'm not arguing against it.....I just think nuclear is cheaper and easier....

Since we (the taxpayers) are going to be funding it, I think we should have some say in which energy source they build....

So put the numbers up - all you've ever done is respond to my data. You didn't say at the time that the figures were wrong, and you don't seem to dispute the numbers in this project, so how can nuclear be cheaper than solar thermal?

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Gillard's big day in the sun
Reply #18 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:22pm

Please delete wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:07pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:05pm:

Please delete wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 3:58pm:

And we've argued this at length gizmo - why do you keep arguing against solar thermal?

I'm not arguing against it.....I just think nuclear is cheaper and easier....

Since we (the taxpayers) are going to be funding it, I think we should have some say in which energy source they build....

So put the numbers up - all you've ever done is respond to my data. You didn't say at the time that the figures were wrong, and you don't seem to dispute the numbers in this project, so how can nuclear be cheaper than solar thermal?

I will, as soons as I find some......You posted a costing on 2 AP1000 reactors being added to a plant in the US, as soon as I find the link again, I'll do a comparison...

In the mean time, I just don't think we should dismiss ANY power system that can replace coal or oil or any fossil fuel, just because some people don't like it.....

I think a combined power grid is the way to go...wind, wave, solar, solar thermal AND nuclear (whether uranium or thorium) is a viable option.....
I know fossil fuels are running out and we need to find alternatives, I just think we need to use ALL the alternatives, not just one or 2....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Gillard's big day in the sun
Reply #19 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:23pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 3:47pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 3:35pm:

So cheap laughs aside.
What have you got against the Renewable industry?

Basically the cost...$104 million dollars for a 44 MWatt solar generator, sited next to and as a 'booster' to a 750 MWatt coal power station....

It will produce 1/17th of the output the coal station does...AND at that, only while the sun is up and in the right place (although if the panels can move to track the sun, that'll be good too)...But even so, that's still only 12 hours out of every 24, at best...

Your all correct, its not economically feasible, it cant provide 24/7 power, it's not baseload & it's cost a sh!tload of money.
However I will stay in its defense that the thought of providing renewable energy at anything other than feel good look at me I'm a hippie, has only really come into our conscieness in the last 20 to 25 years.
The technology to go to baseload is still in its infancy & therefore requires more time & money to achieve what we want.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Re: Gillard's big day in the sun
Reply #20 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:48pm

"The technology to go to baseload is still in its infancy"

Molten Salt heat storage was developed by the nuclear industry - if it is in its' infancy, then so is nuclear.

Gizmo, if enough people are "uncomfortable" with nuclear, is it right to inflict it upon them?

If 45% of Australia said they didn't want it (and I think the number would be higher, after a debate where ALL the facts were aired) would you go ahead anyway?

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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: Gillard's big day in the sun Reply #21 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:49pm And can we put thorium to bed? It sounds great, but ain't gonna happen in the short to medium term.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Gillard's big day in the sun
Reply #22 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 5:49pm

Please delete wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:48pm:

"The technology to go to baseload is still in its infancy"

Molten Salt heat storage was developed by the nuclear industry - if it is in its' infancy, then so is nuclear.

Gizmo, if enough people are "uncomfortable" with nuclear, is it right to inflict it upon them?

If 45% of Australia said they didn't want it (and I think the number would be higher, after a debate where ALL the facts were aired) would you go ahead anyway?

Well that's the point, isn't it....we've never had a debate about nuclear power, or a referendum.....So we can't really tell exactly what percentage of people are for or against nuclear power....

Perhaps we should actually have a vote on yes/no for nuclear power....I have no problem accepting the result of a nation wide vote....but let's at least HAVE one....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Gillard's big day in the sun Reply #23 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 5:50pm Please delete wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:49pm: And can we put thorium to bed? It sounds great, but ain't gonna happen in the short to medium term. And as for Thorium pebble bed reactors....why should we put it to bed??? It's a viable, and tested system...
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Re: Gillard's big day in the sun
Reply #24 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 6:17pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 5:50pm:

Please delete wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:49pm:

And can we put thorium to bed? It sounds great, but ain't gonna happen in the short to medium term.

And as for Thorium pebble bed reactors....why should we put it to bed???

It's a viable, and tested system...

Without ONE in production yet.

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Re: Gillard's big day in the sun
Reply #25 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 6:18pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 5:49pm:

Please delete wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:48pm:

"The technology to go to baseload is still in its infancy"

Molten Salt heat storage was developed by the nuclear industry - if it is in its' infancy, then so is nuclear.

Gizmo, if enough people are "uncomfortable" with nuclear, is it right to inflict it upon them?

If 45% of Australia said they didn't want it (and I think the number would be higher, after a debate where ALL the facts were aired) would you go ahead anyway?

Well that's the point, isn't it....we've never had a debate about nuclear power, or a referendum.....So we can't really tell exactly what percentage of people are for or against nuclear power....

Perhaps we should actually have a vote on yes/no for nuclear power....I have no problem accepting the result of a nation wide vote....but let's at least HAVE one....

So you WOULD inflict a "scary" (for want of a better word) technology on 49.9% of Australians who said they didn't want it?

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Gillard's big day in the sun
Reply #26 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 6:36pm

Please delete wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 6:18pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 5:49pm:

Please delete wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:48pm:

"The technology to go to baseload is still in its infancy"

Molten Salt heat storage was developed by the nuclear industry - if it is in its' infancy, then so is nuclear.

Gizmo, if enough people are "uncomfortable" with nuclear, is it right to inflict it upon them?

If 45% of Australia said they didn't want it (and I think the number would be higher, after a debate where ALL the facts were aired) would you go ahead anyway?

Well that's the point, isn't it....we've never had a debate about nuclear power, or a referendum.....So we can't really tell exactly what percentage of people are for or against nuclear power....

Perhaps we should actually have a vote on yes/no for nuclear power....I have no problem accepting the result of a nation wide vote....but let's at least HAVE one....

So you WOULD inflict a "scary" (for want of a better word) technology on 49.9% of Australians who said they didn't want it?

So when did 49.9% of Australians say that nuclear was 'scary'???

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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