Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
Women in combat roles in the ADF (Read 6594 times)
the unknown
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #45 - Jun 1st, 2011 at 7:57am
 
Since all this argument has evolved after the adf scandals? Do you guys think that women will be promoted to frontline and combat roles? What is the difference between the two: frontline and combat roles? Shocked
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mavisdavis
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1512
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #46 - Jun 1st, 2011 at 8:45am
 
BigOl64 wrote on Apr 12th, 2011 at 6:50am:
Great idea, doubt any will make the grade, but great idea; well until they start coming home in body bags that is.

I doubt Australians have the stomache for women being killed and maimed in combat.



WOMEN will be allowed to serve in frontline combat roles after the Gillard government ordered the Australian Defence Force to bring forward the removal of bans that have stopped women from applying for the most dangerous and demanding military jobs.
The historic decision by Defence Minister Stephen Smith means women who meet the tough physical standards required of their male counterparts will now be able to serve in elite special forces units such as the SAS, work as naval clearance divers and join general infantry and armoured units.

The decision to fast-track women into combat roles coincided with the announcement of a raft of reviews and inquiries into the treatment of women in the defence force spurred by the Skype sex scandal.

About 93 per cent of all jobs in the military are currently open to women, including serving in submarines and piloting fighter jets, with the 7 per cent of jobs closed to women mostly in the army.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/combat-roles-offered-to-women/story-fn59niix-1226037485919




Real women want real equality.  The lives of both women and men are equally sacred.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
pepper
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 12
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #47 - Jun 21st, 2011 at 1:28pm
 
okay  changed my mind . Fair rights for all. I f you want to fight in combat and have the skills go for it!
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
chicken_lipsforme
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 7090
Townsville NQ
Gender: male
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #48 - Jun 21st, 2011 at 1:36pm
 
... wrote on Apr 12th, 2011 at 10:07am:
Sure, 'allow' to enter the SAS.

But if even one woman in the whole of australia can pass the selection criteria, I will eat my hat.  



Valid point, as it is unlikely that any female would have the core strength to get though the rigourous training requirements.
Back to top
 

"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.
 
IP Logged
 
pepper
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 12
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #49 - Jun 21st, 2011 at 2:21pm
 
Hope they start making tasty "hats". As you say, nothing is as inevitable like change.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
chicken_lipsforme
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 7090
Townsville NQ
Gender: male
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #50 - Jun 21st, 2011 at 2:51pm
 
pepper wrote on Jun 21st, 2011 at 2:21pm:
Hope they start making tasty "hats". As you say, nothing is as inevitable like change.


You will find that was Wesley Pipes that eats hats Pepper.

As for change, any female thinking of SAS service will need to do the exact same physical tests as a man, for example carry a certain weighted pack and so much equipment for so long and so far.
All the packs will be the same, and they are not going to alter the test because in a real combat situation, the boys aren't very well going to carry her equipment for her.
So unless a female can have the same physical core strength as a highly fit young male, she simply won't pass the entrance tests.
Back to top
 

"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.
 
IP Logged
 
...
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #51 - Jun 21st, 2011 at 3:09pm
 
pepper wrote on Jun 21st, 2011 at 2:21pm:
Hope they start making tasty "hats". As you say, nothing is as inevitable like change.


Tis a pretty rigorous selection process, and given the much smaller base of potential female applicants, it'd be no mean feat for her to make it through.  In certain psychological aspects, women may have an advantage over men, but that's just 1 piece of the puzzle. 

Quote:
Selection is open to all serving Australian military personnel and involves a 3 week selection course which assesses both individual attributes and the ability to work effectively in a small team.[29] Prior to selection SASR candidates will face a paper board convened by the Special Forces Training Centre (SFTC) to check records and see which part of the service they are vying for.[30] Candidates then have to pass the SFTC Special Forces Psych Test and a Special Forces Medical Board to assess their psychological and medical suitability for the SASR.[30]

80% will meet the standard and continue to the Special Forces Entry Test that tests their physical fitness and includes push-ups, endurance marches and swimming; 64% of applicants will pass the Special Forces Entry Test and continue on to the three week SASR selection course, [30] and 16% of applicants will pass the SASR selection course.[31] Following selection candidates must complete up to 18 months of further courses before they join a squadron as a junior trooper or troop commander (Captain). A wide array of training and courses are also conducted throughout a SASR soldier's career to allow the regiment to have the most highly-qualified soldiers in the Australian Defence Force. Officers only complete the necessary basic courses to qualify them for service in the unit, as their expertise is in planning and administration. In general, they do not get the opportunity to complete all the specialist courses required of the ORs.
Back to top
 

In the fullness of time...
 
IP Logged
 
...
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #52 - Jul 9th, 2012 at 11:50am
 
A taste of things to come.

Quote:
(Reuters) - A federal lawsuit filed on Tuesday accuses Corpus Christi, Texas of discriminating against female applicants to the city's police department by requiring them to pass a physical test that favored men.

The Justice Department said the female pass rate for the test, which was used between 2005 and 2011, was 80 percent lower than the male pass rate and that it excluded otherwise qualified applicants from consideration for hire as entry-level police officers based solely on their gender.

The test, which included push-ups, sit-ups, and a 300-meter and 1.5-mile run, had identical cut-off scores for men and women. But between 2005 and 2009, only 19 percent of the female applicants who took the test passed it, compared with 63 percent of the male applicants, according to the Justice Department.

It said the disparate results "constitute a pattern or practice of resistance to the full enjoyment by women of their rights to equal employment opportunities regardless of their sex."

The government wants to city to stop using the physical ability test and to develop hiring procedures that comply with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act.

It also wants the city to hire some of the women turned away in the past and to offer them retroactive seniority and back pay.

The complaint comes after a 2-1/2 year probe of the city's hiring practices by the Justice Department. Troy Riggs, a current assistant city manager and former police chief of Corpus Christi, said the city had cooperated with the investigation and planned to abide by any consent decree the court imposed.

"We have never disagreed with the Department of Justice," Riggs said.

"We believe its correct for them to be looking at us and that the city has failed in some respects in the past. We've been wrong. When we get a consent decree, we'll live by it."

Riggs said that even as the investigation continued, the city had increased its effort to recruit female officers with some success.

Of the 18 officers who graduated from the city's police academy in 2011, 3 were women, Riggs said. That made them 16.6 percent of the class, compared with a national average of 13 percent, he said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/04/us-usa-police-discrimination-idUSBRE86...

Did you get that?  IDENTICAL requirements are "discriminating" against women. 
Back to top
 

In the fullness of time...
 
IP Logged
 
Grey
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 5341
Gender: male
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #53 - Jul 9th, 2012 at 12:05pm
 
What should be the most important requirement for a police officer, intelligence or the ability to run a marathon with a full pack?
Back to top
 

"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb
 
IP Logged
 
...
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #54 - Jul 9th, 2012 at 12:09pm
 
Both. 

Book learning won't save you when a 6' 5" madman is out for your blood.
Back to top
 

In the fullness of time...
 
IP Logged
 
Kat
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
Everywhere and no-where
Gender: female
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #55 - Jul 9th, 2012 at 12:20pm
 

The mother of a friend of mine commanded an all-girl (the oldest was about 22)
T-34 tank crew at the Battle of Kursk, during WW2, on the Russian side.

They all survived the war.

So, they CAN do it.

The question is, unless a total-war scenario exists, why would they WANT to?

Maybe they think they were short-changed because they were born without
testicles, so have to 'prove' themselves equal?
Back to top
 

...
 
IP Logged
 
progressiveslol
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17029
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #56 - Jul 9th, 2012 at 12:33pm
 
What implications does this study carry for women in combat.

Worrying impairs female brains: study


If you're a born worrier, reading this won't calm you down. A new study has found that anxiety causes womens' brains to work harder than those of men and impairs performance.


Researchers at Michigan State University, set out to discover why anxiety, and worry in particular, is twice as prevalent in women as men and asked a group of college students to carry out a series of tasks while their brain activity was measured by an electrode cap. Only the women who acknowledged they were worriers, recorded high brain activity when they made mistakes during the task. "Our results suggest that anxiety impacts women's frontal brain regions dedicated to decision-making more so than men's," said Jason Moser, Assistant Professor in the department of Psychology at the university and lead investigator on the project. "Anxious girls' brains have to work harder to perform tasks because they have distracting thoughts and worries," he said. "As a result their brains are being kind of burned out by thinking so much."


http://www.northerndailyleader.com.au/news/national/national/general/worrying-im...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
BigOl64
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 14438
Townsville QLD
Gender: male
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #57 - Jul 9th, 2012 at 12:49pm
 
... wrote on Jul 9th, 2012 at 11:50am:
A taste of things to come.

Quote:
(Reuters) - A federal lawsuit filed on Tuesday accuses Corpus Christi, Texas of discriminating against female applicants to the city's police department by requiring them to pass a physical test that favored men.

The Justice Department said the female pass rate for the test, which was used between 2005 and 2011, was 80 percent lower than the male pass rate and that it excluded otherwise qualified applicants from consideration for hire as entry-level police officers based solely on their gender.

The test, which included push-ups, sit-ups, and a 300-meter and 1.5-mile run, had identical cut-off scores for men and women. But between 2005 and 2009, only 19 percent of the female applicants who took the test passed it, compared with 63 percent of the male applicants, according to the Justice Department.

It said the disparate results "constitute a pattern or practice of resistance to the full enjoyment by women of their rights to equal employment opportunities regardless of their sex."

The government wants to city to stop using the physical ability test and to develop hiring procedures that comply with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act.

It also wants the city to hire some of the women turned away in the past and to offer them retroactive seniority and back pay.

The complaint comes after a 2-1/2 year probe of the city's hiring practices by the Justice Department. Troy Riggs, a current assistant city manager and former police chief of Corpus Christi, said the city had cooperated with the investigation and planned to abide by any consent decree the court imposed.

"We have never disagreed with the Department of Justice," Riggs said.

"We believe its correct for them to be looking at us and that the city has failed in some respects in the past. We've been wrong. When we get a consent decree, we'll live by it."

Riggs said that even as the investigation continued, the city had increased its effort to recruit female officers with some success.

Of the 18 officers who graduated from the city's police academy in 2011, 3 were women, Riggs said. That made them 16.6 percent of the class, compared with a national average of 13 percent, he said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/04/us-usa-police-discrimination-idUSBRE86...

Did you get that?  IDENTICAL requirements are "discriminating" against women. 



Labor did that to the RAAF back in the 80's to meet their 'anti-discrimination' policies, everyone new the vast majority of females would never pass the recruiting requirements that the males had,so they just lowered the requirements so females could pass; simple.

Problem was that the weak / unacceptable males that would normally would get tossed out on their arse now get to stay in, just what the RAAF was looking for, a whole bunch of sub-standard males.  Angry

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
...
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male
Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #58 - Jul 11th, 2012 at 10:57am
 
No point in asking clueless ideologues about it - why don't we ask the people who would know? 

Quote:
Get Over It! We Are Not All Created Equal

Author: Capt Katie Petronio

http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/get-over-it-we-are-not-all-created-eq...

As a combat-experienced Marine officer, and a female, I am here to tell you that we are not all created equal, and attempting to place females in the infantry will not improve the Marine Corps as the Nation’s force-in-readiness or improve our national security.



Quote:
Which once again leads me, as a ground combat-experienced female Marine Corps officer, to ask, what are we trying to accomplish by attempting to fully integrate women into the infantry? For those who dictate policy, changing the current restrictions associated with women in the infantry may not seem significant to the way the Marine Corps operates. I vehemently disagree; this potential change will rock the foundation of our Corps for the worse and will weaken what has been since 1775 the world’s most lethal fighting force. In the end, for DACOWITS and any other individual or organization looking to increase opportunities for female Marines, I applaud your efforts and say thank you. However, for the long-term health of our female Marines, the Marine Corps, and U.S. national security, steer clear of the Marine infantry community when calling for more opportunities for females. Let’s embrace our differences to further hone in on the Corps’ success instead of dismantling who we are to achieve a political agenda. Regardless of the outcome, we will be “Semper Fidelis” and remain focused on our mission to protect and defend the United States of America.


She just must be some kinda mysogynist eh?

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 

In the fullness of time...
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print