Australian Politics Forum - Women in combat roles in the ADF

BigOl64

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Women in combat roles in the ADF
Apr 12^th, 2011 at 6:50am

Great idea, doubt any will make the grade, but great idea; well until they start coming home in body bags that is.

I doubt Australians have the stomache for women being killed and maimed in combat.

WOMEN will be allowed to serve in frontline combat roles after the Gillard government ordered the Australian Defence Force to bring forward the removal of bans that have stopped women from applying for the most dangerous and demanding military jobs.
The historic decision by Defence Minister Stephen Smith means women who meet the tough physical standards required of their male counterparts will now be able to serve in elite special forces units such as the SAS, work as naval clearance divers and join general infantry and armoured units.

The decision to fast-track women into combat roles coincided with the announcement of a raft of reviews and inquiries into the treatment of women in the defence force spurred by the Skype sex scandal.

About 93 per cent of all jobs in the military are currently open to women, including serving in submarines and piloting fighter jets, with the 7 per cent of jobs closed to women mostly in the army.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/combat-roles-offered-to-women/story-fn59niix-1226037485919

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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF Reply #1 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 6:54am I hope they are not being sexist as they normally are when they make changes for women. They had better be on the same footing with conscription for men.
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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #2 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:23am

This is a smokescreen for the government to be seen to be doing 'something', even if it is totally unrelated to the current defense 'crisis'.
I just hope that the enemies our troops are sent off to kill in foreign lands are as politically correct as our government is, should any be captured in combat.
Perhaps the government could issue the Taliban with a nice glossy flyer in Employment Diversity and Equal Opportunity for Women.
More stupidity from Labor.

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cods

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Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #3 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:37am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:23am:

This is a smokescreen for the government to be seen to be doing 'something', even if it is totally unrelated to the current defense 'crisis'.
I just hope that the enemies our troops are sent off to kill in foreign lands are as politically correct as our government is, should any be captured in combat.
Perhaps the government could issue the Taliban with a nice glossy flyer in Employment Diversity and Equal Opportunity for Women.
More stupidity from Labor.

Israel has had women in the front line for yonks..as smith said they then will get to be the top jockey in the ADF...

wouldnt like to do it myself.. where women get the strength to just carry the gear is a mystery to me.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #4 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:41am

cods wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:37am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:23am:

This is a smokescreen for the government to be seen to be doing 'something', even if it is totally unrelated to the current defense 'crisis'.
I just hope that the enemies our troops are sent off to kill in foreign lands are as politically correct as our government is, should any be captured in combat.
Perhaps the government could issue the Taliban with a nice glossy flyer in Employment Diversity and Equal Opportunity for Women.
More stupidity from Labor.

Israel has had women in the front line for yonks..as smith said they then will get to be the top jockey in the ADF...

wouldnt like to do it myself.. where women get the strength to just carry the gear is a mystery to me.

Israel certainly has had women in combat roles and for a few decades now, but Israel has never been one to send their combat troops to foreign lands on the other side of the globe.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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2003.

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BigOl64

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Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #5 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:47am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:41am:

cods wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:37am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:23am:

This is a smokescreen for the government to be seen to be doing 'something', even if it is totally unrelated to the current defense 'crisis'.
I just hope that the enemies our troops are sent off to kill in foreign lands are as politically correct as our government is, should any be captured in combat.
Perhaps the government could issue the Taliban with a nice glossy flyer in Employment Diversity and Equal Opportunity for Women.
More stupidity from Labor.

Israel has had women in the front line for yonks..as smith said they then will get to be the top jockey in the ADF...

wouldnt like to do it myself.. where women get the strength to just carry the gear is a mystery to me.

Israel certainly has had women in combat roles and for a few decades now, but Israel has never been one to send their combat troops to foreign lands on the other side of the globe.

Hey chook

Israel has female combantants as a matter of survival, not political expediency. Without the extra troops they would have quickly ceased to exist, we do not have that problem.

Back in '86 labor first brought out the anit-discrimination act, the RAAF had to change the way the trained recruits, no more separate courses for males and females. Simple enough, just make the course easy enough for females and the 'lesser' males can just slide through instead of being cut from the system.

We ended up with a bunch of males that should never have passed and in the past they would have been shiat canned, but after '86 they got though easy as. Angry

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viewpoint

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Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #6 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 8:51am

This is a token proposal which not only wastes time, but also costs money. Women can have a role, but never a front line role where they actually get shot at. Even the Israeli Army do NOT have women actually on the front line getting shot at, maybe mossad yes. The only instance where women do actually get to kill the enemy is as fast jet pilots (RAF, US, Canada), and there are not many of them; missile control in the Navy, and maybe the same in the Army. Female SF is laughable; it’s extremely hard for a very fit man to pass selection let alone a woman, so what’s the bloody point?

Once again common sense is taken over by political correctness, and political/media BS and stupidity.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #7 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:21am

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:47am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:41am:

cods wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:37am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 7:23am:

This is a smokescreen for the government to be seen to be doing 'something', even if it is totally unrelated to the current defense 'crisis'.
I just hope that the enemies our troops are sent off to kill in foreign lands are as politically correct as our government is, should any be captured in combat.
Perhaps the government could issue the Taliban with a nice glossy flyer in Employment Diversity and Equal Opportunity for Women.
More stupidity from Labor.

Israel has had women in the front line for yonks..as smith said they then will get to be the top jockey in the ADF...

wouldnt like to do it myself.. where women get the strength to just carry the gear is a mystery to me.

Israel certainly has had women in combat roles and for a few decades now, but Israel has never been one to send their combat troops to foreign lands on the other side of the globe.

Hey chook

Israel has female combantants as a matter of survival, not political expediency. Without the extra troops they would have quickly ceased to exist, we do not have that problem.

Back in '86 labor first brought out the anit-discrimination act, the RAAF had to change the way the trained recruits, no more separate courses for males and females. Simple enough, just make the course easy enough for females and the 'lesser' males can just slide through instead of being cut from the system.

We ended up with a bunch of males that should never have passed and in the past they would have been shiat canned, but after '86 they got though easy as. Angry

Well they had to drop recruiting standards just to make up the numbers in all the services.
The relaxation of disciplinary standards during the eighties in the Navy Recruit School did the service no favours in the long run.
When I joined up in Jan 1975, nine others failed to make the grade for every one of us that that did make that intake.
I suspect quite a few that shouldn't have passed did by the time standards were lowered in the mid eighties.
The highlight for me was in the nineties with ships were to sail to the Arabian Gulf to enforce the embargo on Iraq, and that particular sailor crying and blubbering on the wharf at Garden Island to the media cameras because the girly man didn't want to go to sea for six months.
Absolutely disgusting affair, he must have thought he signed up on the 'Love Boat'.
And Labor's latest PC decision is merely a smoke screen in an attempt at deflection from the real issues.

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BigOl64

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Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #8 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:40am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:21am:

The highlight for me was in the nineties with ships were to sail to the Arabian Gulf to enforce the embargo on Iraq, and that particular sailor crying and blubbering on the wharf at Garden Island to the media cameras because the girly man didn't want to go to sea for six months.
Absolutely disgusting affair, he must have thought he signed up on the 'Love Boat'.

Yeh I was in then, a total fuken embarassment for everyone in the ADF, the sook should have been discharged Services No longer Required. Angry

Low standards and low expectations, breed poor quality servicemen.

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF Reply #9 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 10:07am Sure, 'allow' to enter the SAS. But if even one woman in the whole of australia can pass the selection criteria, I will eat my hat. next 'sensitivity training' will be compulsory for all combat troops. FFS, their role is to fight, not talk things through with the enemy over tea and scones.
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Dsmithy70

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Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #10 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 10:31am

viewpoint wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 8:51am:

This is a token proposal which not only wastes time, but also costs money. Women can have a role, but never a front line role where they actually get shot at. Even the Israeli Army do NOT have women actually on the front line getting shot at, maybe mossad yes. The only instance where women do actually get to kill the enemy is as fast jet pilots (RAF, US, Canada), and there are not many of them; missile control in the Navy, and maybe the same in the Army. Female SF is laughable; it’s extremely hard for a very fit man to pass selection let alone a woman, so what’s the bloody point?

Once again common sense is taken over by political correctness, and political/media BS and stupidity.

We agree for once, in fact I'll go further & say this is brought up now to take some of the heat out of the current scandal at the college.
Classic tactics, a diversion on the flanks to divert attention while the main objective is overrun.
It seems to be working Angry

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Belgarion

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Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #11 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 10:34am

Women have been in combat roles for years. This is just the opening up of the last bastion, the really physical roles like Clearance Diver Special Forces and Infantry. I doubt they will have many takers and even fewer will meet the standards. Although having said that, females in these roles is not new (except for CD) There were infantry units made up of women on the Eastern Front during WWII and the British SOE had female operatives all over Europe.

I too remember cringing with embarrassment as those pathetic excuses for men cried and whined about deployment to the Gulf. The hierarchy should have started discharge proceedings that day and pissed these wastes of space off. Angry

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cods

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Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #12 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 10:43am

... wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 10:07am:

Sure, 'allow' to enter the SAS.

But if even one woman in the whole of australia can pass the selection criteria, I will eat my hat.

next 'sensitivity training' will be compulsory for all combat troops. FFS, their role is to fight, not talk things through with the enemy over tea and scones.

talking of sensitivity how about you spend a few hours in the Labour ward with a woman who has been in labour for 24 hours...

I think you misconscrue the sentitive part.. its about how to treat your fellow officer.. or comrade.. woman should not be subject to being raped as if its someones right to do so.. we are appalled if it happens when they are in the war zone..so why should their fellow soldiers be any different..

I agree smithy this is just the usual redherring .. to take our eye off the ball

they complain how shocking it was to bring this cadets charge of drinking before the court.... insensitive I think the word was so whats different about saying we will let woman go to the front so they can further their careers in the ADF...what has that got to do with anything that is on the table??..

they think we are stupid that makes me even madder.

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...

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Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF
Reply #13 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 10:51am

cods wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 10:43am:

... wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 10:07am:

Sure, 'allow' to enter the SAS.

But if even one woman in the whole of australia can pass the selection criteria, I will eat my hat.

next 'sensitivity training' will be compulsory for all combat troops. FFS, their role is to fight, not talk things through with the enemy over tea and scones.

talking of sensitivity how about you spend a few hours in the Labour ward with a woman who has been in labour for 24 hours...

I think you misconscrue the sentitive part.. its about how to treat your fellow officer.. or comrade.. woman should not be subject to being raped as if its someones right to do so.. we are appalled if it happens when they are in the war zone..so why should their fellow soldiers be any different..

I agree smithy this is just the usual redherring .. to take our eye off the ball

they complain how shocking it was to bring this cadets charge of drinking before the court.... insensitive I think the word was so whats different about saying we will let woman go to the front so they can further their careers in the ADF...what has that got to do with anything that is on the table??..

they think we are stupid that makes me even madder.

Already done it - twice.

Anyway, my comment here has nothing to do with the issue this move is supposed take our attention away from.

I think people forget what the purpose of the armed forces is - it's not some big, all inclusive love-in.

War is hell, let's not pretend otherwise.

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nichy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1812 Gender:	Re: Women in combat roles in the ADF Reply #14 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 11:07am I say : Give me eastern trimmin', where women are women In high silk hose and peek a boo clothes And french perfume that rocks the room And I'm all yours in buttons and bows.
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