Australian Politics Forum - Carbon Tax

sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner
Reply #15 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:26am

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:08am:

Survey reveals carbon tax fears
Sid Maher and John Ferguson From: The Australian April 06, 2011 12:00AM

NEW polling shows 59 per cent of people do not support a carbon tax and more than half believe it would not help the environment.

It is the stupidest thing imaginable. It doesn't help global warming. It doesn't apply to imported goods using carbon - so it serves only to harm AUstralian industry. Compensation means that behaviour is not changed.
It just doesn't have anything going for it - except that it is a GESTURE. But of course - for it's supporters nothing matters more than to be SEEN to be making a gesture.
However, the majority of people are giving it an entirely different, two-fingered gesture. Good on them.

I'd love to see the parameters on both. This survey, dear old Soren, was conducted for the ACCI. Was it done on just workers in the industry? Was it done on the general public? Doesn't say, does it? I'd like to know, because it makes a huge difference.

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mozzaok

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Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner
Reply #16 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:36am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 8:55am:

All monies raised from the tax should be put into R&D for re-newables.
Waiting around hoping polluters change their ways whilst compensating people so they DON'T have to change is stupid.
Fiddling while Earth burns, the classic look I'm doing something whilst actually doing nothing Angry

I understand, and agree with the principle behind your opinion, smithy, but I do believe that low, and fixed income people, should receive an energy allowance.
It could be delivered with some provisos that they become more aware of how they can conserve energy, and with a variable rate that rewards those who actually implement energy conserving changes in their own usage patterns.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Soren

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Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner
Reply #17 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:36am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:26am:

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:08am:

Survey reveals carbon tax fears
Sid Maher and John Ferguson From: The Australian April 06, 2011 12:00AM

NEW polling shows 59 per cent of people do not support a carbon tax and more than half believe it would not help the environment.

It is the stupidest thing imaginable. It doesn't help global warming. It doesn't apply to imported goods using carbon - so it serves only to harm AUstralian industry. Compensation means that behaviour is not changed.
It just doesn't have anything going for it - except that it is a GESTURE. But of course - for it's supporters nothing matters more than to be SEEN to be making a gesture.
However, the majority of people are giving it an entirely different, two-fingered gesture. Good on them.

I'd love to see the parameters on both. This survey, dear old Soren, was conducted for the ACCI. Was it done on just workers in the industry? Was it done on the general public? Doesn't say, does it? I'd like to know, because it makes a huge difference.

General public, across the country:

The ACCI survey of 550 people, conducted on March 26 and 27, found 59 per cent of those surveyed were against the carbon tax plan, while 29 per cent supported it. And 73 per cent believed a carbon tax would have a negative effect on their cost of living.

Only 26 per cent believed the tax would help cut global carbon emissions, while 55 per cent said it would not make a difference.

The survey found significant resistance to job losses caused by environmental initiatives, with 65 per cent of respondents saying they did not believe any job losses were acceptable if a carbon tax was introduced, and 32 per cent saying a small number of job losses was acceptable.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner Reply #18 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:38am CFMEU survey results (this is the woikerz, you understand) Would you support a carbon tax on big polluters that was used to compensate households for increased costs? Yes 22% No 78% Total votes: 189 http://www.cfmeu.asn.au/
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner
Reply #19 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:42am

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:38am:

CFMEU survey results (this is the woikerz, you understand)

Would you support a carbon tax on big polluters that was used to compensate households for increased costs?
Yes 22%
No 78%
Total votes: 189

http://www.cfmeu.asn.au/

Online polls - now now my dear old friend Soren you know very well that online polls are useless and are filled with bias. Try again.

And ps: it isn't the woirkerz, you see, because it's an ONLINE POLL available to ANYONE. You poor old nuff Sad

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buzzanddidj Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14248 Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC Gender:	Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner Reply #20 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:45am Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:38am: CFMEU survey results (this is the woikerz, you understand) Would you support a carbon tax on big polluters that was used to compensate households for increased costs? Yes 22% No 78% Total votes: 189 http://www.cfmeu.asn.au/ An ON-LINE POLL ? GET REAL !
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner
Reply #21 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:46am

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:36am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:26am:

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:08am:

Survey reveals carbon tax fears
Sid Maher and John Ferguson From: The Australian April 06, 2011 12:00AM

NEW polling shows 59 per cent of people do not support a carbon tax and more than half believe it would not help the environment.

It is the stupidest thing imaginable. It doesn't help global warming. It doesn't apply to imported goods using carbon - so it serves only to harm AUstralian industry. Compensation means that behaviour is not changed.
It just doesn't have anything going for it - except that it is a GESTURE. But of course - for it's supporters nothing matters more than to be SEEN to be making a gesture.
However, the majority of people are giving it an entirely different, two-fingered gesture. Good on them.

I'd love to see the parameters on both. This survey, dear old Soren, was conducted for the ACCI. Was it done on just workers in the industry? Was it done on the general public? Doesn't say, does it? I'd like to know, because it makes a huge difference.

General public, across the country:

The ACCI survey of 550 people, conducted on March 26 and 27, found 59 per cent of those surveyed were against the carbon tax plan, while 29 per cent supported it. And 73 per cent believed a carbon tax would have a negative effect on their cost of living.

Only 26 per cent believed the tax would help cut global carbon emissions, while 55 per cent said it would not make a difference.

The survey found significant resistance to job losses caused by environmental initiatives, with 65 per cent of respondents saying they did not believe any job losses were acceptable if a carbon tax was introduced, and 32 per cent saying a small number of job losses was acceptable.

I can see 550. I can't see general public, accross the country.
I can accept when I read it but at the moment I am confused on whether this was a nationwide poll or whether it was a poll of ACCI members - which is understandable and explains the mass difference between the Galaxy poll and this one.

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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner Reply #22 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:51am http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/jokes-on-us-if-we-dont-read-the-fine-print-on-carbon-tax-20110405-1d2s7.html Interesting opinion piece. The letters make for bizarre reading. Like reading the letters page during the spanish inquisition.
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buzzanddidj

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Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner
Reply #23 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:54am

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:36am:

General public, across the country:

The ACCI survey of 550 people, conducted on March 26 and 27, found 59 per cent of those surveyed were against the carbon tax plan, while 29 per cent supported it. And 73 per cent believed a carbon tax would have a negative effect on their cost of living.

Ya made THAT up ?

As no detals ar given (as you have with Galaxy and Newspolls) I'll put it down to an "in house" among ACCI members

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner
Reply #24 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:54am

Please delete wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:51am:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/jokes-on-us-if-we-dont-read-the-fine-print-on-carbon-tax-20110405-1d2s7.html

Interesting opinion piece.

The letters make for bizarre reading. Like reading the letters page during the spanish inquisition.

A couple of salient quotes from the article

Quote:

''At best it's a giant money-go-round,'' Tony Abbott told one radio interviewer this week.

Sorry Tony, but good economists know better.

Economics students learn pretty early on that there are two important ways that changes in prices influence consumption. First, a price increase on a certain good has an ''income effect''. By reducing a consumer's real income, it makes them feel poorer and prompts them to consume less of that good.

It is true the government intends to shield low- and middle-income households from this income effect by compensating them with tax cuts or cash payments for the full impact of any price increases on energy or food.

But there is a second way that higher prices influence consumption. Economists call it the ''substitution effect''. A higher price for carbon-intense products, such as electricity, encourages consumers to switch to consuming less carbon-intense goods and services.

For households this may mean simply consuming less electricity, by unplugging that second fridge or not heating the pool year-round, meaning they have more money for other things, such as ice from the servo to cool their drinks or a bicycle for exercise instead of swimming in winter.

Raising the price on a particular good gives households the signal to reduce their consumption of that good. And here's the happy news for those households: because the government has decided to assume no change in household energy consumption in response to higher prices, paying people for their current consumption levels,

households that reduce their energy use after a carbon price is introduced will end up financially ahead of where they would be with no carbon price.

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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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astro_surf

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Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner
Reply #25 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:57am

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:45am:

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:38am:

CFMEU survey results (this is the woikerz, you understand)

Would you support a carbon tax on big polluters that was used to compensate households for increased costs?
Yes 22%
No 78%
Total votes: 189

http://www.cfmeu.asn.au/

An ON-LINE POLL ?

GET REAL !

LOL, how scientific! Just the sort of methodology one would expect a science denier to embrace! Grin

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Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 11:23am:

So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner Reply #26 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:06am How many non-woikerz visit the CFMEU website? Or better - how many non-unionised woikerz?
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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner Reply #27 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:06am Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:06am: How many non-woikerz visit the CFMEU website? I just did. And I voted. So there's bias already Oh...and then I hid my IP and voted another 5 times. Yay bias!
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Soren

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Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner
Reply #28 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:11am

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:54am:

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:36am:

General public, across the country:
The ACCI survey of 550 people, conducted on March 26 and 27, found 59 per cent of those surveyed were against the carbon tax plan, while 29 per cent supported it. And 73 per cent believed a carbon tax would have a negative effect on their cost of living.

Ya made THAT up ?

As no detals ar given (as you have with Galaxy and Newspolls) I'll put it down to an "in house" among ACCI members

Conducted by Touchpoint Research Australia between 25-27 March 2011, the research reveals that the majority of Australians, 59%, are opposed to the proposed carbon tax, 70% believe jobs will be put at risk and 65% say it is unacceptable to sacrifice jobs for the environment.

These are similar findings to past ACCI surveys of business opinion, in which 75% of businesspeople opposed a carbon tax or trading scheme in the absence of international agreements binding other nations.

Key Results:
59% are opposed to a carbon tax with 29% in favour and 12% unsure
Only half believe consumers will actually reduce their energy consumption or that industry will move to become more energy efficient
54% don’t believe it will make a difference to the global environment
70% agree jobs will be put at risk under a carbon tax
75% believe jobs and the environment are equally important
65% consider it unacceptable to sacrifice jobs for the environment
82% believe some companies will move offshore as a result

http://www.acci.asn.au/Research-and-Publications/Media-Centre/Media-Releases-and...

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Carbon Tax - A Winner
Reply #29 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:19am

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:11am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:54am:

Soren wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 9:36am:

General public, across the country:
The ACCI survey of 550 people, conducted on March 26 and 27, found 59 per cent of those surveyed were against the carbon tax plan, while 29 per cent supported it. And 73 per cent believed a carbon tax would have a negative effect on their cost of living.

Ya made THAT up ?

As no detals ar given (as you have with Galaxy and Newspolls) I'll put it down to an "in house" among ACCI members

Conducted by Touchpoint Research Australia between 25-27 March 2011, the research reveals that the majority of Australians, 59%, are opposed to the proposed carbon tax, 70% believe jobs will be put at risk and 65% say it is unacceptable to sacrifice jobs for the environment.

These are similar findings to past ACCI surveys of business opinion, in which 75% of businesspeople opposed a carbon tax or trading scheme in the absence of international agreements binding other nations.

Key Results:
59% are opposed to a carbon tax with 29% in favour and 12% unsure
Only half believe consumers will actually reduce their energy consumption or that industry will move to become more energy efficient
54% don’t believe it will make a difference to the global environment
70% agree jobs will be put at risk under a carbon tax
75% believe jobs and the environment are equally important
65% consider it unacceptable to sacrifice jobs for the environment
82% believe some companies will move offshore as a result

http://www.acci.asn.au/Research-and-Publications/Media-Centre/Media-Releases-and...

and yet another reputable poll, Galaxy, found 2/3rd support the Carbon Tax, with compensation.

Looks like it is back to waiting for the detail and from there making the actual decision on whether to support or not.

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