Australian Politics Forum - Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.

Equitist

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #90 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 12:01am

Well, unfortunately, as I (most recently) foreshadowed a matter of weeks ago: it would take another major nuke incident to stop the madness of nuclear power proliferation.

Sadly for Japan, and it's neighbours, they were the one, of many nuke-powered countries in the northern hemisphere, to hit the accident jackpot first!

The fact, that the citizens of other pro-nuke nations are 'enjoying' a sobering radiation shower, could be seen as a dose of natural justice - since every single one of those nations could have been the source of a serious nuke accident with international consequences...

The only good nuke is one that never existed!

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #91 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 12:38am

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 11:30pm:

'Catastrophic water dump means Fukushima really out of control'

Has anyone taken the time to see why the tides are taking this water, after it leaves Fukushima?

If it is initially going up & down the Japanese coast and the waste is being deposited into seaweed, shellfish & fish, then I can see a FEW problems, in Japan & that's before we look further afield?

gizmo should watch this !!

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"If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region..." - Benjamin Netanyahu in 1995

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Equitist

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #92 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:44pm

How can the dumping of 12,000 tons of radioactive water be regarded as a 'minor' environmental contamination!?

The amount of radioactive water that is being deliberately dumped into the sea is around 4 olympic-sized swimming pools...

How can it be safe to dump this volume of contaminated water into the life-giving marine environment of a densely-populated island-nation which has a diet comprising of much fish and seaweed!?

Then there's all the other surrounding nations - which are also densely-populated...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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it_is_the_light

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #93 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:49pm

how did corporations get to control and enslave humanity?

willfully pollute pay to pollute

if any government gets an ets or carbon tax through

that means the said government will receive payment from polluters

they simply pay to pollute and in as much the government has

to provide a toxic waste dump,you see?

pay to pollute/carbon tax means new toxic dump for australia

this must be discussed and realized as fact

or carry on regardless

namaste

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ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : ) ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #94 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:32pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 10:58pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 10:26pm:

The 2.73 million resulting from Fukushima over the next few decades is just my guess

The 985,000 deaths from Chernobyl is based on a 2010 report by the NY Academy of Sciences - in which they translated about 6000 articles from Russian and other languages into English.

gizmo - youre an apologist for corporate fascism rigth till the end - well done

Only you dont have to validate yourself in here - you need to do it to your children (if you have any) or your familiy members

You look them in the eye and lie - its easy to lie in here and then run away

gizmo reads to many andrew bolt columns in the Herald Sun. Bolt was talking once how there were only a handful that died from Chernobyl Sad

Ahhh there's the Nails we know and love.....making sh1t up again..

I've never read an Andrew Bolt column....if it comes to that, I've haven't read a Herald Sun newspaper in 16 years..(hint nails....I DON'T live in Victoria).....

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Bobbythebat

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #95 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:38pm

Equitist wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:44pm:

How can the dumping of 12,000 tons of radioactive water be regarded as a 'minor' environmental contamination!?

The amount of radioactive water that is being deliberately dumped into the sea is around 4 olympic-sized swimming pools...

How can it be safe to dump this volume of contaminated water into the life-giving marine environment of a densely-populated island-nation which has a diet comprising of much fish and seaweed!?

Then there's all the other surrounding nations - which are also densely-populated...

Thank you for stating my sentiments so well.

The present situation is totally unacceptable .. I mean WTF are we doing here?

We're fracking around by the looks of things.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #96 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:43pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:38pm:

Equitist wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 1:44pm:

How can the dumping of 12,000 tons of radioactive water be regarded as a 'minor' environmental contamination!?

The amount of radioactive water that is being deliberately dumped into the sea is around 4 olympic-sized swimming pools...

How can it be safe to dump this volume of contaminated water into the life-giving marine environment of a densely-populated island-nation which has a diet comprising of much fish and seaweed!?

Then there's all the other surrounding nations - which are also densely-populated...

Thank you for stating my sentiments so well.

The present situation is totally unacceptable .. I mean WTF are we doing here?

We're fracking around by the looks of things.

If you mean this thread....then Yes absolutely...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #97 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:46pm

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 11:02pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 9:53pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 7:41pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 5:54pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 5:52pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 5:50pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 5:37pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 5:16pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 5:09pm:

My esitmates show that there shouldn't be more than 2.73 million deaths resulting form this Fukushima nuclear waste dump disaster.

The corporate bonuses will be handed out, promotions, medals and business awards

The epitaphs will be constructed for the 712 workers who will eventually be sacrificed so that the BOARD can remain intact to receive their annual bonuses.

Business as usual

cover up after cover up

And reality and experience shows there shouldn't be more than a maximum of 500 deaths....fun huh??

<<It was grim. We went from hospital to hospital and from one contaminated village to another. We found deformed and genetically mutated babies in the wards; pitifully sick children in the homes; adolescents with stunted growth and dwarf torsos; foetuses without thighs or fingers and villagers who told us every member of their family was sick.

This was 20 years after the accident but we heard of many unusual clusters of people with rare bone cancers. One doctor, in tears, told us that [color=#ffff00]one in three pregnancies in some places was malformed

and that she was overwhelmed by people with immune and endocrine system disorders. Others said they still saw caesium and strontium in the breast milk of mothers living far from the areas thought to be most affected,

and significant radiation still in the food chain.

Villages testified that "the Chernobyl necklace" – thyroid cancer – was so common as to be unremarkable; many showed signs of accelerated ageing.>>[/color]

That's 20 years AFTER the accident. It might keep happening for another 20 years or 200 years....nobody really knows.

Gizmo....a suitable comeback could be that they can't prove it was a result of the Chernobyl accident. Or you could give us one of your own, everyone needs a laugh now and then.

No, that was at Chernobyl...which is massively different to Fukushima...
Chernobyl WAS a major disaster and did indeed produce lots of problems..

...problems???

985,000 deaths is a problem?

40% of Europe contaminated is a problem?

Yes, some 'imagined problems' and some real ones..

Well Gizmo, you would know all about imagination, since it seems to comprise, much of your posts!

Btw, you mentioned a figure of 500 deaths, what reality & experience do you base that on?

I base the '500 deaths' prediction on several things...
1) Foolosophy 'qouted' 2.73 million.....so based on her earlier claims of 985,000 for Chernobyl (when it's actually 9,000) that gives us a rough estimate of 1/100,000th of whatever Foolosophy 'claims'
2) And then there's the fact that very little radiation has leaked from Fukushima, so the only people who are really at risk are the crews working to control the reactors..

So right at this moment, the only people who 'may' die from radiation are the disaster and repair crews..and there's only 712 of them, so a 'predicted' mortality of about 3/4 sounds a little over the top...but I decided to err on the pessimistic side..

In other words, you have done the same as you have done in many, many posts, you have used your imagination, instead of the reality of facts, without proper information and you have done so in the absence of any real experience.

In short, your providing support for somethings that are real & apparent dangers and your doing so with fudged information, the question is why?

So, Foolosophy uses made up numbers from a Greenpeace site and invents future outlandish mortality figures and that's fine, (because it's the same opinion as yours) and I correct the Chernobyl figures and venture my own opinion and that's wrong????

WOW, what a weird concept........

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Foolosophy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1171 Australia Gender:	Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl. Reply #98 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:04pm 985,000 deaths from Chernobyl ...and counting
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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl. Reply #99 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:11pm Foolosophy wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:04pm: 985,000 deaths from Chernobyl ...and counting Listed WHERE????? Certainly NOT in the compiled study you keep quoting...
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Sir lastnail

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #100 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:15pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 10:58pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 10:26pm:

The 2.73 million resulting from Fukushima over the next few decades is just my guess

The 985,000 deaths from Chernobyl is based on a 2010 report by the NY Academy of Sciences - in which they translated about 6000 articles from Russian and other languages into English.

gizmo - youre an apologist for corporate fascism rigth till the end - well done

Only you dont have to validate yourself in here - you need to do it to your children (if you have any) or your familiy members

You look them in the eye and lie - its easy to lie in here and then run away

gizmo reads to many andrew bolt columns in the Herald Sun. Bolt was talking once how there were only a handful that died from Chernobyl Sad

Ahhh there's the Nails we know and love.....making sh1t up again..

I've never read an Andrew Bolt column....if it comes to that, I've haven't read a Herald Sun newspaper in 16 years..(hint nails....I DON'T live in Victoria).....

It's online gizmo. You can't miss it Wink

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"If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region..." - Benjamin Netanyahu in 1995

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #101 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:37pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:15pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 10:58pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 10:26pm:

The 2.73 million resulting from Fukushima over the next few decades is just my guess

The 985,000 deaths from Chernobyl is based on a 2010 report by the NY Academy of Sciences - in which they translated about 6000 articles from Russian and other languages into English.

gizmo - youre an apologist for corporate fascism rigth till the end - well done

Only you dont have to validate yourself in here - you need to do it to your children (if you have any) or your familiy members

You look them in the eye and lie - its easy to lie in here and then run away

gizmo reads to many andrew bolt columns in the Herald Sun. Bolt was talking once how there were only a handful that died from Chernobyl Sad

Ahhh there's the Nails we know and love.....making sh1t up again..

I've never read an Andrew Bolt column....if it comes to that, I've haven't read a Herald Sun newspaper in 16 years..(hint nails....I DON'T live in Victoria).....

It's online gizmo. You can't miss it Wink

Perhaps I 'can't miss it'.......it's just I can't be bothered.....I already know Bolt is a 'one-eyed' bias Liberal supporter....so there's not really any point to reading it is there???

Like it_is_the_light's Alex Jones links.....they're pointless to read....

I much prefer mainstream news.....it's at least 'sort of' balanced....

I don't read many 'opinion' pieces.......as my father used to say.."Opinion are like arseholes.....everyone has one, and they all stink"....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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nairbe

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #102 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 8:39pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:37pm:

I much prefer mainstream news.....it's at least 'sort of' balanced....

I don't read many 'opinion' pieces.......as my father used to say.."Opinion are like arseholes.....everyone has one, and they all stink"....

I do love that saying, was one of my dad's fav's too.
Completely agree on opinion pieces they are generally bias rubbish. If i want opinion we have plenty of politicians to supply. News needs to be even handed.

I have held off making any comment on this disaster till now. I have always been anti nuclear as i felt the safety issues were high and the waste product unthinkable, but of late i was feeling that maybe we were getting it together and might be able to handle nuclear power.

Seeing what happened in Japan i was forgiving as there was massive natural disasters that triggered it, and as has been pointed out Chernobyl was gross incompetence. But now three weeks later there is no end in sight and the problem grows worse daily. It is clear that the people involved in trying to overcome this problem are way out of their depth and that this will get worse before it gets better.

I have also noted much about the failings of the design of these plants and the casual attitude toward the possible disasters that can effect these plants in the design and build phase. Clearly we are not yet able to safely control these monsters and must now shelve any plan to pollut the planet to death with these toxic hangers. What the alternative is i do not know.

I wonder how long it will take before they simply fill them full of concrete and walk away?

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perceptions_now

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #103 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:25pm

nairbe wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 8:39pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:37pm:

I much prefer mainstream news.....it's at least 'sort of' balanced....

I don't read many 'opinion' pieces.......as my father used to say.."Opinion are like arseholes.....everyone has one, and they all stink"....

I do love that saying, was one of my dad's fav's too.
Completely agree on opinion pieces they are generally bias rubbish. If i want opinion we have plenty of politicians to supply. News needs to be even handed.

I have held off making any comment on this disaster till now. I have always been anti nuclear as i felt the safety issues were high and the waste product unthinkable, but of late i was feeling that maybe we were getting it together and might be able to handle nuclear power.

Seeing what happened in Japan i was forgiving as there was massive natural disasters that triggered it, and as has been pointed out Chernobyl was gross incompetence. But now three weeks later there is no end in sight and the problem grows worse daily. It is clear that the people involved in trying to overcome this problem are way out of their depth and that this will get worse before it gets better.

I have also noted much about the failings of the design of these plants and the casual attitude toward the possible disasters that can effect these plants in the design and build phase. Clearly we are not yet able to safely control these monsters and must now shelve any plan to pollut the planet to death with these toxic hangers. What the alternative is i do not know.

I wonder how long it will take before they simply fill them full of concrete and walk away?

I'm not sure if the news needs to be even handed, but I would certainly like it to show a fair representation of the facts (all the facts), so that we (the Public) can come to our own conclusions, which then have a greater hope of being based in reality!

Unfortunately, most mainstream media have their own bias, so we seldom get "untainted" news. In fact, the mainstream outlets are probably just larger opinion pieces.

However, there are ocassions when real news does evade the inbuilt filters, via either mainstream or other providers. It is rare, but it does happen ocassionally.

That said, it is more usual that we need to read in between, what is said & what isn't said, to come to conclusions that are somewhere near the truth.

We certainly can not rely on Politicians, Political Party's or government/semi government instrumentalities, to provide direct, accurate & timely information, that is in the best, long term interests of all Australians or in the relevant interests of the Public, in other countries!

I would certainly, no more trust the likes of the IAEA or other similar organizations or direct government agencies, any more or should I say less, than I trust the myriad of Politicians, either in power or in opposition, either here in OZ or overseas!

Cynical? You bet!
With good reason? You bet!

Would I trust Gizmo's words on these issues? Don't bet on it!

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Foolosophy

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #104 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 10:31pm

Nuclear power plants are very nuerotic about how pure their plant water circuits are. They even have online demineralisers and various filtration stages.

I wonder what happens when you dump megalitres of "sea water" onto exposed fuel/spent fuel rods and merge it with highly radioactive envrironments?

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