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Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl. (Read 17613 times)
Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #30 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:17am
 
<<<<Or what the consequences are for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large.... >>>>
................................................................................
...........


Whatever we know or don't know, one thing for sure is that the consequences will be BAD. Even the 'experts' don't know.
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #31 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:23am
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 7:49am:
PN, the biggest error in your post is that you don't seem to understand exactly what a 'core-meltdown' actually is....

Or what the consequences are for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large....


Well, instead of just doing an LW and saying I'm wrong, why don't YOU explain it & the consequences, for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large?

And then, we can compare your explanations, to reality & what other "experts" are saying?
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #32 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:24am
 
Sensible debate of this emotive issue is understandably handicapped by those same emotions that rule the thinking of so many involved.  While there are those who want to discuss the broad range of issues linked to the core issue of nuclear power generation, there is a surplus of closed minds with a "sky is falling" mindset.

I for one, am a nuclear agnostic, but its nearly impossible, on a forum such as this one to sensibly discuss.

1: What is the real risk of nuclear generated power given the technology we now have?

2: The nuclear waste factor.

3: Although the concept of renewable power generation is attractive, its over simplistic to place too much credence on renewables.

4: Considering #3, and assuming that the AGW forecasts are correct, we are faced with two choices, nuclear power, or Global Warming.

5: All Australians need to carefully plan for the death of the coal industry.  The loss of income to this country will be severe, to the point of starvation for some of the disadvantaged in fact.
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #33 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:32am
 
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:23am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 7:49am:
PN, the biggest error in your post is that you don't seem to understand exactly what a 'core-meltdown' actually is....

Or what the consequences are for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large....


Well, instead of just doing an LW and saying I'm wrong, why don't YOU explain it & the consequences, for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large?

And then, we can compare your explanations, to reality & what other "experts" are saying?


Ok, in the case of a partial, or even a complete core melt the consequence for the Reactor unit is that it becomes unusable.......that's it...

For the company--- They lose a lot of money due to having to build another reactor and decommission the old one (finish the shut down then either clean out and demolish, or clean out and seal up the old one)

For the world at large- (without any containment and RPV breaches) ZERO (except some people might have problems with blackouts, if there's insufficent replacement electricity available nearby)....

There you go
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #34 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:06am
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:32am:
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:23am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 7:49am:
PN, the biggest error in your post is that you don't seem to understand exactly what a 'core-meltdown' actually is....

Or what the consequences are for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large....


Well, instead of just doing an LW and saying I'm wrong, why don't YOU explain it & the consequences, for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large?

And then, we can compare your explanations, to reality & what other "experts" are saying?


Ok, in the case of a partial, or even a complete core melt the consequence for the Reactor unit is that it becomes unusable.......that's it...

For the company--- They lose a lot of money due to having to build another reactor and decommission the old one (finish the shut down then either clean out and demolish, or clean out and seal up the old one)

For the world at large- (without any containment and RPV breaches) ZERO (except some people might have problems with blackouts, if there's insufficent replacement electricity available nearby)....

There you go


Absolutely amazing!

You truly are, blinded by something!

Why, because you have taken NO REGARD of the outcomes of previous events, in particular links that you actually posted, on the outcomes of the Chernobyl event, nor have you taken any regard of what many other experts have written & discussed, on this Japanese event, in respect of the ramifications for people, nor the Economic ramifications!

As for the company, besides that some of the senior should be indicted & sent to goal for a long time, they will be essentially bankrupt and the government will most likely have to prop them up, in some way shape or form, with Public money!

As for the world, the entire Japanese Tri-fecta (earthquake, Tsunami & Nuclear problem, will likely cost the world Economy something around 2-3% of GDP (around $60-65 Trillion) over the next 3-5 years.

But, you knew all of this, it's already out there, for people who don't have fixed minds!

That said, I still think we will have to have Nuclear as part of the Energy mix, over the next 100 years or so, as we move away from Fossil Fuels.

Following are just 2 posts I have put up, specifically where are they incorrect -

Nuclear meltdown

A nuclear meltdown is a severe nuclear reactor accident that results in core damage from overheating.The term is not officially defined by the International Atomic Energy Agency[1] or by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.[2] However, it has been defined to mean the accidental melting of the core of a nuclear reactor,[3] and is in common usage a reference to the core's either complete or partial collapse. "Core melt accident" and "partial core melt"[4] are the analogous technical terms.

A core melt accident occurs when the heat generated by a nuclear reactor exceeds the heat removed by the cooling systems to the point where at least one nuclear fuel element exceeds its melting point.

A meltdown may be caused by a loss of coolant, loss of coolant pressure, or low coolant flow rate or be the result of a criticality excursion in which the reactor is operated at a power level that exceeds its .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown


Meltdown fears at Fukushima, radiation spreads

As dangerously high levels of radiation spread beyond the Fukushima exclusion zone in Japan, there are fears the race to contain the nuclear crisis has been lost and meltdown has already taken place.

Richard Lahey, head of safety research for this type of reactor at General Electric, which installed the reactors at Fukushima in the 1970s, says workers at the site appear to have lost the race to save the crippled No. 2 reactor.

The Guardian newspaper quotes him as saying he believes the reactor core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel and at least some of it is down on the concrete floor beneath.

This would mean in simple terms the accident is no longer a matter of melting fuel rods, but of meltdown.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/31/3178263.htm
===============
There are a many reports of a partial meltdown already and the Japanese government & the owners of the Fuku plant aren't running around like headless chooks, for no good reason, they are trying to prevent a full meltdown or another full meltdown.


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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #35 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:10am
 
The second post, related to Chernobyl and was a report, actually raised by yourself. Your juggling of information is unbelievable!

Chernobyl
Consequences of the Catastrophe
for People and the Environment


7. Mortality after the Chernobyl Catastrophe

The calculations suggest that the Chernobyl catastrophe has already killed several hundred thousand human beings in a population of several hundred million that was unfortunate enough to live in territories affected by the fallout.

The number of Chernobyl victims will continue to grow over many future generations.

7.1. Increase in Antenatal Mortality
Irradiation has an adverse effect on the ovum and the sperm, as well as on the embryo.

The major observable components of antenatal mortality are spontaneous abortions or miscarriages (spontaneous interruption of pregnancy until the 27th week) and stillbirths (after 27 weeks).  

Increased numbers of stillbirths and miscarriages are among the first effects of irradiation, with a delay of only some weeks or months after exposure. These effects can occur after exposure to very low doses, that is, at whole body doses as low as 5 mSv (Loganovsky,
2005), but the reasons are not yet understood.


5. [b]Until 2004, the estimated total number of miscarriages and stillbirths in Ukraine as a result of Chernobyl was about 50,000 (Lypic, 2004).[/b]


Conclusion to Chapter IV
In the last days of spring and the beginning of summer of 1986, radioactivity was released from the Chernobyl power plant and fell upon hundreds of millions of people. The resulting levels of radionuclides were hundreds of times higher than that from the Hiroshima atomic bomb.

The normal lives of tens of millions have been destroyed. Today, more than 6 million people live on land with dangerous levels of contamination—land that will continue to be contaminated for decades to centuries. Thus the daily questions: how to live and where to live

[b]In the territories contaminated by the Chernobyl fallout it is impossible to engage safely in agriculture; impossible to work safely in
forestry, in fisheries, and hunting; and dangerous to use local foodstuffs or to drink milk and even water. Those who live in these areas ask how to avoid the tragedy of a son or daughter born with malformations caused by irradiation. Soon after the catastrophe these profound questions arose among liquidators’ families, often too late to avoid tragedy.
[/b]

Link -
http://www.strahlentelex.de/Yablokov%20Chernobyl%20book.pdf
==============================
Will the Japanese event have similar outcomes, in terms of personal health & mortality, time will tell, although even without a full meltdown of one or more of the 6 reactors, one would have to suspect that the future for many Japanese in the affected areas (including Tokyo), may not be what they thought, only some 3 weeks ago!  

However, the health outcomes for those in affected areas, whilst that may be bad enough, pales when looking at the Economic effects of this event on the Global Economy, compared to the miniscule outcomes of Chernobyl, which we will come to later!
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #36 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 12:27pm
 
Anti-nuke Greens sailing to power in German state

Sun Mar 27, 2011

BERLIN – Germany's anti-nuclear Greens on Sunday scored a remarkable victory over chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative party in a state election that had turned into a referendum on nuclear power in the wake of Japan's Fukushima disaster.

The Greens doubled their voter share in wealthy Baden-Wuerttemberg state and seemed poised to oust Merkel's Christian Democrats who held power there for almost six decades, according to preliminary results released by the state electoral commission.

The Greens are also set to win their first ever state governorship, the results showed.

"This is a day that has strongly changed the political landscape in Germany," party chairwoman Claudia Roth said in Berlin.

The Greens secured 24.2 percent of the vote, with the center-left Social Democrats down 2 percentage points at 23.1 percent. That secures them a narrow lead to form a coalition government with a combined 71 seats in the state legislature, the results showed.

"We have secured what amounts to a historic electoral victory," the Greens' local leader Winfried Kretschmann told party members in Stuttgart.




Representatives of all parties said the elections were overshadowed by Japan's nuclear crisis, turning them into a popular vote on the country's future use of nuclear power — which a majority of Germans oppose as they view it as inherently dangerous.





Conservative governor Stefan Mappus, who has long been an advocate of nuclear energy, conceded defeat and said his party's lead in the polls dwindled away in the wake of the disaster at Japan's Fukushima nuclear facility.




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110327/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_elections



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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #37 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 12:36pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:32am:
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:23am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 7:49am:
PN, the biggest error in your post is that you don't seem to understand exactly what a 'core-meltdown' actually is....

Or what the consequences are for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large....




Well, instead of just doing an LW and saying I'm wrong, why don't YOU explain it & the consequences, for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large?

And then, we can compare your explanations, to reality & what other "experts" are saying?


Ok, in the case of a partial, or even a complete core melt the consequence for the Reactor unit is that it becomes unusable.......that's it...

For the company--- They lose a lot of money due to having to build another reactor and decommission the old one (finish the shut down then either clean out and demolish, or clean out and seal up the old one)

For the world at large- (without any containment and RPV breaches) ZERO (except some people might have problems with blackouts, if there's insufficent replacement electricity available nearby)....

There you go





Japan's wind industry hails earthquake-resilient turbines

18 Mar 2011

Japan's wind turbines survived last week's earthquake and as a result utilities have now asked wind farm operators to boost power output to make up for energy shortages in the country, the leader of the Japanese wind energy association has revealed.

Writing on the Huffington Post, Kelly Rigg, chief executive of the Global Campaign for Climate Action, yesterday revealed she had spoken to Yoshinori Ueda, leader of the International Committee of the Japan Wind Power Association and Japan Wind Energy Association, who told her that
none of its members reported damage to wind turbines
after last week's natural disasters

Although some wind turbines did stop operating as a result of grid failure caused by the earthquake and tsunami, Ueda said most Japanese wind turbines were fully operational, including the Kamisu semi-offshore wind farm which was located about 300km from the epicenter of the quake.

Eurus Energy Holdings said on Monday that it had resumed operations at six wind farms in northern Japan, which had stopped running after the earthquake. The resumption of power output came in response to a request from Tohoku Electric Power, one of the utilities battling to cope with power shortages in the wake of the disaster.

As Japan's nuclear crisis continues to unfold,
investor confidence in renewable energy and fossil fuels is expected to rise
, with doubts increasing around the saftey of nuclear power.


http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2035300/japans-wind-industry-hails-earthqua...




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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #38 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 1:37pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:06am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:32am:
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:23am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 7:49am:
PN, the biggest error in your post is that you don't seem to understand exactly what a 'core-meltdown' actually is....

Or what the consequences are for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large....


Well, instead of just doing an LW and saying I'm wrong, why don't YOU explain it & the consequences, for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large?

And then, we can compare your explanations, to reality & what other "experts" are saying?


Ok, in the case of a partial, or even a complete core melt the consequence for the Reactor unit is that it becomes unusable.......that's it...

For the company--- They lose a lot of money due to having to build another reactor and decommission the old one (finish the shut down then either clean out and demolish, or clean out and seal up the old one)

For the world at large- (without any containment and RPV breaches) ZERO (except some people might have problems with blackouts, if there's insufficent replacement electricity available nearby)....

There you go


Absolutely amazing!

You truly are, blinded by something!

Why, because you have taken NO REGARD of the outcomes of previous events, in particular links that you actually posted, on the outcomes of the Chernobyl event, nor have you taken any regard of what many other experts have written & discussed, on this Japanese event, in respect of the ramifications for people, nor the Economic ramifications!

As for the company, besides that some of the senior should be indicted & sent to goal for a long time, they will be essentially bankrupt and the government will most likely have to prop them up, in some way shape or form, with Public money!

As for the world, the entire Japanese Tri-fecta (earthquake, Tsunami & Nuclear problem, will likely cost the world Economy something around 2-3% of GDP (around $60-65 Trillion) over the next 3-5 years.

But, you knew all of this, it's already out there, for people who don't have fixed minds!

That said, I still think we will have to have Nuclear as part of the Energy mix, over the next 100 years or so, as we move away from Fossil Fuels.

Following are just 2 posts I have put up, specifically where are they incorrect -

Nuclear meltdown

A nuclear meltdown is a severe nuclear reactor accident that results in core damage from overheating.The term is not officially defined by the International Atomic Energy Agency[1] or by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.[2] However, it has been defined to mean the accidental melting of the core of a nuclear reactor,[3] and is in common usage a reference to the core's either complete or partial collapse. "Core melt accident" and "partial core melt"[4] are the analogous technical terms.

A core melt accident occurs when the heat generated by a nuclear reactor exceeds the heat removed by the cooling systems to the point where at least one nuclear fuel element exceeds its melting point.

A meltdown may be caused by a loss of coolant, loss of coolant pressure, or low coolant flow rate or be the result of a criticality excursion in which the reactor is operated at a power level that exceeds its .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown


Meltdown fears at Fukushima, radiation spreads

As dangerously high levels of radiation spread beyond the Fukushima exclusion zone in Japan, there are fears the race to contain the nuclear crisis has been lost and meltdown has already taken place.

Richard Lahey, head of safety research for this type of reactor at General Electric, which installed the reactors at Fukushima in the 1970s, says workers at the site appear to have lost the race to save the crippled No. 2 reactor.

The Guardian newspaper quotes him as saying he believes the reactor core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel and at least some of it is down on the concrete floor beneath.

This would mean in simple terms the accident is no longer a matter of melting fuel rods, but of meltdown.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/31/3178263.htm
===============
There are a many reports of a partial meltdown already and the Japanese government & the owners of the Fuku plant aren't running around like headless chooks, for no good reason, they are trying to prevent a full meltdown or another full meltdown.



First off..Chernobyl was a Reactor EXPLOSION, not a Reactor meltdown, so the two cases are entirely DISsimilar....

And secondly, while the c&p'd info is partial accurate, the definition of meltdon is correct, the Guardian's stuff about the material melting through the RPV is, at best, a misquote, and at worst, a complete load of bovine fecal matter....
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #39 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 1:51pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 1:37pm:
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:06am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:32am:
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:23am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 7:49am:
PN, the biggest error in your post is that you don't seem to understand exactly what a 'core-meltdown' actually is....

Or what the consequences are for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large....


Well, instead of just doing an LW and saying I'm wrong, why don't YOU explain it & the consequences, for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large?

And then, we can compare your explanations, to reality & what other "experts" are saying?


Ok, in the case of a partial, or even a complete core melt the consequence for the Reactor unit is that it becomes unusable.......that's it...

For the company--- They lose a lot of money due to having to build another reactor and decommission the old one (finish the shut down then either clean out and demolish, or clean out and seal up the old one)

For the world at large- (without any containment and RPV breaches) ZERO (except some people might have problems with blackouts, if there's insufficent replacement electricity available nearby)....

There you go


Absolutely amazing!

You truly are, blinded by something!

Why, because you have taken NO REGARD of the outcomes of previous events, in particular links that you actually posted, on the outcomes of the Chernobyl event, nor have you taken any regard of what many other experts have written & discussed, on this Japanese event, in respect of the ramifications for people, nor the Economic ramifications!

As for the company, besides that some of the senior should be indicted & sent to goal for a long time, they will be essentially bankrupt and the government will most likely have to prop them up, in some way shape or form, with Public money!

As for the world, the entire Japanese Tri-fecta (earthquake, Tsunami & Nuclear problem, will likely cost the world Economy something around 2-3% of GDP (around $60-65 Trillion) over the next 3-5 years.

But, you knew all of this, it's already out there, for people who don't have fixed minds!

That said, I still think we will have to have Nuclear as part of the Energy mix, over the next 100 years or so, as we move away from Fossil Fuels.

Following are just 2 posts I have put up, specifically where are they incorrect -

Nuclear meltdown

A nuclear meltdown is a severe nuclear reactor accident that results in core damage from overheating.The term is not officially defined by the International Atomic Energy Agency[1] or by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.[2] However, it has been defined to mean the accidental melting of the core of a nuclear reactor,[3] and is in common usage a reference to the core's either complete or partial collapse. "Core melt accident" and "partial core melt"[4] are the analogous technical terms.

A core melt accident occurs when the heat generated by a nuclear reactor exceeds the heat removed by the cooling systems to the point where at least one nuclear fuel element exceeds its melting point.

A meltdown may be caused by a loss of coolant, loss of coolant pressure, or low coolant flow rate or be the result of a criticality excursion in which the reactor is operated at a power level that exceeds its .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown


Meltdown fears at Fukushima, radiation spreads

As dangerously high levels of radiation spread beyond the Fukushima exclusion zone in Japan, there are fears the race to contain the nuclear crisis has been lost and meltdown has already taken place.

Richard Lahey, head of safety research for this type of reactor at General Electric, which installed the reactors at Fukushima in the 1970s, says workers at the site appear to have lost the race to save the crippled No. 2 reactor.

The Guardian newspaper quotes him as saying he believes the reactor core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel and at least some of it is down on the concrete floor beneath.

This would mean in simple terms the accident is no longer a matter of melting fuel rods, but of meltdown.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/31/3178263.htm
===============
There are a many reports of a partial meltdown already and the Japanese government & the owners of the Fuku plant aren't running around like headless chooks, for no good reason, they are trying to prevent a full meltdown or another full meltdown.



First off..Chernobyl was a Reactor EXPLOSION, not a Reactor meltdown, so the two cases are entirely DISsimilar....

And secondly, while the c&p'd info is partial accurate, the definition of meltdon is correct, the Guardian's stuff about the material melting through the RPV is, at best, a misquote, and at worst, a complete load of bovine fecal matter....


where did the Plutonium in the soil come from?
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #40 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 2:04pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 1:37pm:
First off..Chernobyl was a Reactor EXPLOSION, not a Reactor meltdown, so the two cases are entirely DISsimilar....

And secondly, while the c&p'd info is partial accurate, the definition of meltdon is correct, the Guardian's stuff about the material melting through the RPV is, at best, a misquote, and at worst, a complete load of bovine fecal matter.
...


You say neither, I say niether -
It is believed that for some unknown reason, there was a sudden loss of water that was used to cool 1,661 uranium fuel assemblies that were set in pressure pipes surrounded by 1,700 tons of graphite blocks, causing the fuel rods to overheat. The zirconium alloy around the fuel assemblies, along with the pressure tubing, melted at about 3,500 degrees Fahrenheit, overheating the graphite. The temperature rose still more. At 5,100 degrees Fahrenheit, the uranium-oxide fuel began to melt. The operators flooded the reactor with water. It was too late and the water was instantly turned into a superheated steam, which reacted with the graphite, fuel and zirconium to produce hydrogen, methane, and carbon monoxide. Over many hours, the gases built up and combined with oxygen released by the cracked pressure tubes, triggering a massive explosion. (Barnathan & Strasser 22-23)

In any event, forgetting cause & effect, many of the outcomes are similar, in terms of some health problems, but the Fukushima Economic outcomes will clearly be much, much greater!


Perhaps not, it depends on who you accept as a valid source of information. I certain don't accept your uncorroberated words!
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #41 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 2:11pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 2:04pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 1:37pm:
First off..Chernobyl was a Reactor EXPLOSION, not a Reactor meltdown, so the two cases are entirely DISsimilar....

And secondly, while the c&p'd info is partial accurate, the definition of meltdon is correct, the Guardian's stuff about the material melting through the RPV is, at best, a misquote, and at worst, a complete load of bovine fecal matter.
...


You say neither, I say niether -
It is believed that for some unknown reason, there was a sudden loss of water that was used to cool 1,661 uranium fuel assemblies that were set in pressure pipes surrounded by 1,700 tons of graphite blocks, causing the fuel rods to overheat. The zirconium alloy around the fuel assemblies, along with the pressure tubing, melted at about 3,500 degrees Fahrenheit, overheating the graphite. The temperature rose still more. At 5,100 degrees Fahrenheit, the uranium-oxide fuel began to melt. The operators flooded the reactor with water. It was too late and the water was instantly turned into a superheated steam, which reacted with the graphite, fuel and zirconium to produce hydrogen, methane, and carbon monoxide. Over many hours, the gases built up and combined with oxygen released by the cracked pressure tubes, triggering a massive explosion. (Barnathan & Strasser 22-23)

In any event, forgetting cause & effect, many of the outcomes are similar, in terms of some health problems, but the Fukushima Economic outcomes will clearly be much, much greater!


Perhaps not, it depends on who you accept as a valid source of information. I certain don't accept your uncorroberated words!


There is no secret as to what caused the Chernobyl incident. THe plant operators were carrying out a trial - an experiment.

The final operational decision and act carried out by the control room operators caused a catastrophic explosion (and subsequent fire) 49 seconds later.

You can do that with a dough making machine in a Biscuit facotry, BUT NOT in a nuclear power facility

In the US, for example, direct subsidies to nuclear energy amounted to $115 billion between 1947 and 1999, with an additional $145 billion in indirect subsidies. In contrast, subsidies to wind and solar energy combined over the same period totalled only $5.5 billion.
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« Last Edit: Apr 4th, 2011 at 2:23pm by Foolosophy »  
 
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #42 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 2:54pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 2:04pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 1:37pm:
First off..Chernobyl was a Reactor EXPLOSION, not a Reactor meltdown, so the two cases are entirely DISsimilar....

And secondly, while the c&p'd info is partial accurate, the definition of meltdon is correct, the Guardian's stuff about the material melting through the RPV is, at best, a misquote, and at worst, a complete load of bovine fecal matter.
...


You say neither, I say niether -
It is believed that for some unknown reason, there was a sudden loss of water that was used to cool 1,661 uranium fuel assemblies that were set in pressure pipes surrounded by 1,700 tons of graphite blocks, causing the fuel rods to overheat. The zirconium alloy around the fuel assemblies, along with the pressure tubing, melted at about 3,500 degrees Fahrenheit, overheating the graphite. The temperature rose still more. At 5,100 degrees Fahrenheit, the uranium-oxide fuel began to melt. The operators flooded the reactor with water. It was too late and the water was instantly turned into a superheated steam, which reacted with the graphite, fuel and zirconium to produce hydrogen, methane, and carbon monoxide. Over many hours, the gases built up and combined with oxygen released by the cracked pressure tubes, triggering a massive explosion. (Barnathan & Strasser 22-23)

In any event, forgetting cause & effect, many of the outcomes are similar, in terms of some health problems, but the Fukushima Economic outcomes will clearly be much, much greater!


Perhaps not, it depends on who you accept as a valid source of information. I certain don't accept your uncorroberated words!


Exactly....now, the big difference between the Fukushima reactors and Chernobyl #4 is this...Fukushima HAS got RPV's and Containment Vessels...Chernobyl didn't...

I understand about Chernobyl....they were running a test on one of the emergency core cooling features (which obviously didn't work) and the temperature spiked....And yes adding water did cause the steam explosions which ruptured the reactor casing...

However it didn't take 'hours' for the pressure to blast the casing open...

The test started at 1:23:04 am, the automatic systems triggered an emergency shut down (SCRAM) 36 seconds later, and the first explosion was a 'few' seconds after that and the second 3 seconds later..etc..

The fire alarms went off (after the casing ruptured and set fire to the building) at 1:26:03 am...a little under 3 minutes later...

Anyway...the point is, none of this has happened in Japan...because we'd sure as hell know by now...AND in the case of Fukushima...even if the reactor casings HAVE ruptured, there are still TWO more levels of containment that must fail before the reactor core is exposed to the air...
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Foolosophy
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #43 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 3:07pm
 
...when will the radaition leaks stop in fukushima?

When will the fuel rods be removed?

When can people swim in the seas off the coast of fukushima?

When will radiation levels reduce to normal? In the air, soil and water???

Why is there Plutonium in the soil? How much is there?

Dotn worry people TEPCO will sort it out  -  and the corporate Japanese puppet government will ensure that everybody in the world is kept informed

The IAEA will see to that! LOL

Like they covered up 980,000 Chernobyl deaths (so far)

All I can suggest is for those apologists of the corporate nuclear power indusrty to go to a Japanese restaraunt tonight and order the mushroom soup or a specifically imported Japanese Fish dish

enjoy your Plutnium tea and internally emitting alpha seaweed
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #44 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 3:13pm
 
Foolosophy wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 3:07pm:
...when will the radaition leaks stop in fukushima?

When will the fuel rods be removed?

When can people swim in the seas off the coast of fukushima?

When will radiation levels reduce to normal? In the air, soil and water???

Why is there Plutonium in the soil? How much is there?

Dotn worry people TEPCO will sort it out  -  and the corporate Japanese puppet government will ensure that everybody in the world is kept informed

The IAEA will see to that! LOL

Like they covered up 980,000 Chernobyl deaths (so far)

All I can suggest is for those apologists of the corporate nuclear power indusrty to go to a Japanese restaraunt tonight and order the mushroom soup or a specifically imported Japanese Fish dish

enjoy your Plutnium tea and internally emitting alpha seaweed  


And what page/chapter and section are the 985,000 (oops it's dropped to 980,000 now..Have 5000 people been 'miraculously' resurrected??) of the report are these deaths mentioned???
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