Australian Politics Forum - Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.

Sir lastnail

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #15 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 11:07pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:36pm:

as quoted by a RUSSIAN desperate for anything to take the stain away from their own embarrassment cause simply by shocking technology, a disregard for even the basics of safety and a political system that virtually decrees failure.

Japan was hit by twin natural disasters of a HUGE magnitude. Russia was hit by indifference and stellar incompetence.

The russian is tryign to save face and it aint working.

and a lousy diesel generator was the cause of the catastrophic failure of the buggerashima reactor !! At the end of the day it is still a catastrophe but there is a role for you to go over there and help them fix up the reactor. It might shorten your life considerably and you might die a painful death but suffering is a good thing according to christian faith

LOL

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #16 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 11:09pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:55pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:51pm:

When you put yourself in the position where it all blows up does it really matter why?

The result is one hell of a mess and this one makes Chernobyl look like a xmas party.

not even close to true. Chernobyl was a MELTDOWN. Japans problems are severe but not this severe. And the day you start taking notes from a Russian on anything is the day your credibility drops.

and at least Japan had the worlds worst natural disaster in recent history to use as an excuse. The russians were simply criminally incompetent.

and it's going to take at least 100 years to clean up and it will be a no go zone just like Chernobyl so WTF are you trying to down play it for ??

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"If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region..." - Benjamin Netanyahu in 1995

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #17 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 6:49am

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 11:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:55pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:51pm:

When you put yourself in the position where it all blows up does it really matter why?

The result is one hell of a mess and this one makes Chernobyl look like a xmas party.

not even close to true. Chernobyl was a MELTDOWN. Japans problems are severe but not this severe. And the day you start taking notes from a Russian on anything is the day your credibility drops.

and at least Japan had the worlds worst natural disaster in recent history to use as an excuse. The russians were simply criminally incompetent.

and it's going to take at least 100 years to clean up and it will be a no go zone just like Chernobyl so WTF are you trying to down play it for ??

Because it was gods will, and longwinded must stick up for his god.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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perceptions_now

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #18 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 9:27am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 10:57pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 8:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:55pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:51pm:

When you put yourself in the position where it all blows up does it really matter why?

The result is one hell of a mess and this one makes Chernobyl look like a xmas party.

not even close to true. Chernobyl was a MELTDOWN. Japans problems are severe but not this severe. And the day you start taking notes from a Russian on anything is the day your credibility drops.

and at least Japan had the worlds worst natural disaster in recent history to use as an excuse. The russians were simply criminally incompetent.

LW,
Do you actually read any information?

If you had, you would know that several of the Japanese reactors have had partial meltdowns, as a minimum and possibly a full meltdown.

wrong, wrong and VERY wrong. do you even know what a MELTDOWN is? it is not an exposed core. it is the total loss of control of a nuclear reaction without cooling. Do you imagine ALL your posts? it would certainly explain a lot of them.

Nuclear meltdown

A nuclear meltdown is a severe nuclear reactor accident that results in core damage from overheating.The term is not officially defined by the International Atomic Energy Agency[1] or by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.[2] However, it has been defined to mean the accidental melting of the core of a nuclear reactor,[3] and is in common usage a reference to the core's either complete or partial collapse. "Core melt accident" and "partial core melt"[4] are the analogous technical terms.

A core melt accident occurs when the heat generated by a nuclear reactor exceeds the heat removed by the cooling systems to the point where at least one nuclear fuel element exceeds its melting point.

A meltdown may be caused by a loss of coolant, loss of coolant pressure, or low coolant flow rate or be the result of a criticality excursion in which the reactor is operated at a power level that exceeds its .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown

Meltdown fears at Fukushima, radiation spreads

As dangerously high levels of radiation spread beyond the Fukushima exclusion zone in Japan, there are fears the race to contain the nuclear crisis has been lost and meltdown has already taken place.

Richard Lahey, head of safety research for this type of reactor at General Electric, which installed the reactors at Fukushima in the 1970s, says workers at the site appear to have lost the race to save the crippled No. 2 reactor.

The Guardian newspaper quotes him as saying he believes the reactor core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel and at least some of it is down on the concrete floor beneath.

This would mean in simple terms the accident is no longer a matter of melting fuel rods, but of meltdown.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/31/3178263.htm
================

There are a many reports of a partial meltdown already and the Japanese government & the owners of the Fuku plant aren't running around like headless chooks, for no good reason, they are trying to prevent a full meltdown or another full meltdown.

So LW, how was my post wrong?

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perceptions_now

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #19 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 9:30am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 10:55pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 8:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:36pm:

as quoted by a RUSSIAN desperate for anything to take the stain away from their own embarrassment cause simply by shocking technology, a disregard for even the basics of safety and a political system that virtually decrees failure.

Japan was hit by twin natural disasters of a HUGE magnitude. Russia was hit by indifference and stellar incompetence.

The russian is tryign to save face and it aint working.

Whereas Japan, was hit by indifference and stellar incompetence!

Why?

Because they chose not to take note of history and properly mitigate for events that were very possible and in the case of the Tsunami, there was already history, that exceeded their mitigation attempts.

seriously. you ARE an idiot. get some help. you claim to understand history yet every time you open your mouth you demonstrate just how little you actually know.

How LW, HOW AM I WRONG?

You could try a fact or two, every now and again, just to mix things up a little, with all of the stuff you imagine!

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Dnarever

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #20 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 9:59am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 10:59pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 8:15pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:55pm:

And the day you start taking notes from a Russian on anything is the day your credibility drops.

The best programmer on my team is a Russian (a Mad russian programmer).

I tend to take notice of his opinion on almost anything in his field of expertise.

in programming... what about nuclear physics?

"the day you start taking notes from a Russian on anything"

It is probably a shock to you to find that I do not know any Russian nuclear Physicists but if I did he would probably be the best authority I would know on the topic.

The only nuclear physicist I have known is an ex brit who works with Sydney Uni and the CSIRO,(I worked on a contract at Sydney uni in medical radiation sciences dept) the next best is a technician I worked with who is now at Lucas heights working with a research team.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #21 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 5:24pm

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 9:30am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 10:55pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 8:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:36pm:

as quoted by a RUSSIAN desperate for anything to take the stain away from their own embarrassment cause simply by shocking technology, a disregard for even the basics of safety and a political system that virtually decrees failure.

Japan was hit by twin natural disasters of a HUGE magnitude. Russia was hit by indifference and stellar incompetence.

The russian is tryign to save face and it aint working.

Whereas Japan, was hit by indifference and stellar incompetence!

Why?

Because they chose not to take note of history and properly mitigate for events that were very possible and in the case of the Tsunami, there was already history, that exceeded their mitigation attempts.

seriously. you ARE an idiot. get some help. you claim to understand history yet every time you open your mouth you demonstrate just how little you actually know.

How LW, HOW AM I WRONG?

You could try a fact or two, every now and again, just to mix things up a little, with all of the stuff you imagine!

it's wrong because if you stop Uranium production then some share holders might suffer Wink

LOL

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"If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region..." - Benjamin Netanyahu in 1995

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl. Reply #22 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 5:26pm You do realise shareholders in Australia are contributing to the wealth of the country and paying tax on capital gains etc. Why you have such an angry and envious tone towards them is beyond me. How about supporting your fellow Aussies, Lastnail?
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Sir lastnail

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #23 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 5:48pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 5:26pm:

You do realise shareholders in Australia are contributing to the wealth of the country and paying tax on capital gains etc.

Why you have such an angry and envious tone towards them is beyond me.

How about supporting your fellow Aussies, Lastnail?

I do support them. I suggested that Holden build an electric car for the locals so they can drive straight past the fool bowser and save $$$$$$$ by reducing their dependency on foreign oil as well as creating jobs for the local automotive manufacturing sector Wink

What more could you want !! Wink

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longweekend58

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #24 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 8:49pm

Dnarever wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 9:59am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 10:59pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 8:15pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:55pm:

And the day you start taking notes from a Russian on anything is the day your credibility drops.

The best programmer on my team is a Russian (a Mad russian programmer).

I tend to take notice of his opinion on almost anything in his field of expertise.

in programming... what about nuclear physics?

"the day you start taking notes from a Russian on anything"

It is probably a shock to you to find that I do not know any Russian nuclear Physicists but if I did he would probably be the best authority I would know on the topic.

The only nuclear physicist I have known is an ex brit who works with Sydney Uni and the CSIRO,(I worked on a contract at Sydney uni in medical radiation sciences dept) the next best is a technician I worked with who is now at Lucas heights working with a research team.

IM not quite sure where you get your feeling that Russian nuclear technology is somehow superior to everyone elses. I thougth Chernobyl was proof positive of the opposite. Or perhaps it was the multiple failed nuclear tests in the early days. IN most areas of techology, russians are well behind the rest of the world - as are all planned economies - and nthe stuff they got that works was based on stolen plans.

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darkhall67

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #25 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 9:03pm

I live in Tokyo.

As a consequence I am still monitoring the daily reports of radiation levels and preventative measures to combat radiation sickness etc

BUT I am a proponent of nuclear energy because i think it is the CLEANEST energy available.

But I hasten to add that it is only the safest and cleanest energy source IF it is taken out of the reach of private corporations and solely government owned,run and regulated.

Letting a private corporation decide WHERE a plant is to be built (ie the CHEAPEST location possible) is inviting the disaster that tepco is experiencing (building a nuclear plant with 6 reactors on the COAST of a country on continental plants and known and FAMOUS for its earthquakes) is ridiculous in the extreme.

Government owned , run and regulated energy companies are the only way to go.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #26 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 9:21pm

darkhall67 wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 9:03pm:

I live in Tokyo.

As a consequence I am still monitoring the daily reports of radiation levels and preventative measures to combat radiation sickness etc

BUT I am a proponent of nuclear energy because i think it is the CLEANEST energy available.

But I hasten to add that it is only the safest and cleanest energy source IF it is taken out of the reach of private corporations and solely government owned,run and regulated.

Letting a private corporation decide WHERE a plant is to be built (ie the CHEAPEST location possible) is inviting the disaster that tepco is experiencing (building a nuclear plant with 6 reactors on the COAST of a country on continental plants and known and FAMOUS for its earthquakes) is ridiculous in the extreme.

Government owned , run and regulated energy companies are the only way to go.

Can you reccomend any sites, which have good updates of information, including none government PR?

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #27 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 9:43pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:55pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:51pm:

When you put yourself in the position where it all blows up does it really matter why?

The result is one hell of a mess and this one makes Chernobyl look like a xmas party.

not even close to true. Chernobyl was a MELTDOWN. Japans problems are severe but not this severe. And the day you start taking notes from a Russian on anything is the day your credibility drops.

The old Liberal whore is the LAST one who should be bringing up "credibility"

She'll defend nuclear power, spills n all, till Hell freezes over - or when it ceases to be Liberal Party policy

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perceptions_now

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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #28 - Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 9:44pm

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 9:27am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 10:57pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 8:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:55pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 7:51pm:

When you put yourself in the position where it all blows up does it really matter why?

The result is one hell of a mess and this one makes Chernobyl look like a xmas party.

not even close to true. Chernobyl was a MELTDOWN. Japans problems are severe but not this severe. And the day you start taking notes from a Russian on anything is the day your credibility drops.

and at least Japan had the worlds worst natural disaster in recent history to use as an excuse. The russians were simply criminally incompetent.

LW,
Do you actually read any information?

If you had, you would know that several of the Japanese reactors have had partial meltdowns, as a minimum and possibly a full meltdown.

wrong, wrong and VERY wrong. do you even know what a MELTDOWN is? it is not an exposed core. it is the total loss of control of a nuclear reaction without cooling. Do you imagine ALL your posts? it would certainly explain a lot of them.

Nuclear meltdown

A nuclear meltdown is a severe nuclear reactor accident that results in core damage from overheating.The term is not officially defined by the International Atomic Energy Agency[1] or by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.[2] However, it has been defined to mean the accidental melting of the core of a nuclear reactor,[3] and is in common usage a reference to the core's either complete or partial collapse. "Core melt accident" and "partial core melt"[4] are the analogous technical terms.

A core melt accident occurs when the heat generated by a nuclear reactor exceeds the heat removed by the cooling systems to the point where at least one nuclear fuel element exceeds its melting point.

A meltdown may be caused by a loss of coolant, loss of coolant pressure, or low coolant flow rate or be the result of a criticality excursion in which the reactor is operated at a power level that exceeds its .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown

Meltdown fears at Fukushima, radiation spreads

As dangerously high levels of radiation spread beyond the Fukushima exclusion zone in Japan, there are fears the race to contain the nuclear crisis has been lost and meltdown has already taken place.

Richard Lahey, head of safety research for this type of reactor at General Electric, which installed the reactors at Fukushima in the 1970s, says workers at the site appear to have lost the race to save the crippled No. 2 reactor.

The Guardian newspaper quotes him as saying he believes the reactor core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel and at least some of it is down on the concrete floor beneath.

This would mean in simple terms the accident is no longer a matter of melting fuel rods, but of meltdown.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/31/3178263.htm
================

There are a many reports of a partial meltdown already and the Japanese government & the owners of the Fuku plant aren't running around like headless chooks, for no good reason, they are trying to prevent a full meltdown or another full meltdown.

So LW, how was my post wrong?

Have you found any answers yet, LW?

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl. Reply #29 - Apr 4^th, 2011 at 7:49am PN, the biggest error in your post is that you don't seem to understand exactly what a 'core-meltdown' actually is.... Or what the consequences are for the reactor unit, the company and the world at large....
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