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Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl. (Read 17704 times)
Sir lastnail
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #120 - Apr 7th, 2011 at 9:23pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 7th, 2011 at 2:22pm:
Well nails, I would go help, if I could...

Ok nails, so since you're a 'millionaire businessman'...if YOU buy me the ticket, I'll go to Japan to help with the clean up......I'll even give you my account details....Sound fair???


yes it would be worth it not to read your bullshit anymore Wink
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"If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region..." - Benjamin Netanyahu in 1995
 
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #121 - Apr 8th, 2011 at 7:43am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 7th, 2011 at 9:23pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 7th, 2011 at 2:22pm:
Well nails, I would go help, if I could...

Ok nails, so since you're a 'millionaire businessman'...if YOU buy me the ticket, I'll go to Japan to help with the clean up......I'll even give you my account details....Sound fair???


yes it would be worth it not to read your bullshit anymore Wink


That's ok, I'll take a laptop with me and a wireless connection...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #122 - Apr 8th, 2011 at 12:54pm
 




So, what was the composition of samples taken from the 12,000-odd tons of water deliberately-dumped by TEPCO into the ocean!?

Where is the evidence of the purported "low level" of radioactive contamination!?

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #123 - Apr 8th, 2011 at 12:57pm
 
Equitist wrote on Apr 8th, 2011 at 12:54pm:
So, what was the composition of samples taken from the 12,000-odd tons of water deliberately-dumped by TEPCO into the ocean!?

Where is the evidence of the purported "low level" of radioactive contamination!?



Corporate intellectual property - a secret

An illegal criminal secret

TEPCO ecpects others to verify its water analysis by testing the fish, algae, sea weed etc

There is nowhere to hide on this one - eveything will be traced back to TEPCO
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #124 - Apr 8th, 2011 at 12:59pm
 


Foolosophy wrote on Apr 8th, 2011 at 12:57pm:
Equitist wrote on Apr 8th, 2011 at 12:54pm:
So, what was the composition of samples taken from the 12,000-odd tons of water deliberately-dumped by TEPCO into the ocean!?

Where is the evidence of the purported "low level" of radioactive contamination!?



Corporate intellectual property - a secret

An illegal criminal secret

TEPCO ecpects others to verify its water analysis by testing the fish, algae, sea weed etc

There is nowhere to hide on this one - eveything will be traced back to TEPCO




In this case, it is vitally important to oversee whomever is supposed to be watching the watchers!

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #125 - Apr 8th, 2011 at 1:04pm
 
Equitist wrote on Apr 8th, 2011 at 12:59pm:
Foolosophy wrote on Apr 8th, 2011 at 12:57pm:
Equitist wrote on Apr 8th, 2011 at 12:54pm:
So, what was the composition of samples taken from the 12,000-odd tons of water deliberately-dumped by TEPCO into the ocean!?

Where is the evidence of the purported "low level" of radioactive contamination!?



Corporate intellectual property - a secret

An illegal criminal secret

TEPCO ecpects others to verify its water analysis by testing the fish, algae, sea weed etc

There is nowhere to hide on this one - eveything will be traced back to TEPCO




In this case, it is vitally important to oversee whomever is supposed to be watching the watchers!



Those who are watching the watchers are all puppets to the same masters.

I can only see one group which has very little resources that is actively trying to paint a true picture of the fukushima disaster.

TEPCO should be removed from the management of this disaster goign forward
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perceptions_now
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #126 - Apr 8th, 2011 at 6:17pm
 
For those in need of some background & have some time to spare.

The Battle of Chernobyl part 1


The Battle of Chernobyl part 2


The Battle of Chernobyl part 3


The Battle of Chernobyl part 4


The Battle of Chernobyl part 5



The Battle of Chernobyl part 6


The Battle of Chernobyl part 7


The Battle of Chernobyl part 8


The Battle of Chernobyl part 9


The Battle of Chernobyl part 10


I wonder how many liquidators have now been liquidated?
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #127 - Apr 8th, 2011 at 6:37pm
 
The 'Battle' of Chernobyl????
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #128 - Apr 8th, 2011 at 7:28pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 8th, 2011 at 6:37pm:
The 'Battle' of Chernobyl????


I take it, you haven't watched it?

Is that so you can plead, tactical ignorance?
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #129 - Apr 8th, 2011 at 7:29pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 8th, 2011 at 6:37pm:
The 'Battle' of Chernobyl????



yeah! and you thought it was a picnic didn't you gizmo?
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #130 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 11:01am
 
I just flew a 2 year old and a 6 month old from San Diego to LAX to London Heathrow Thy. Not to mention a 2 hour car journey to Bristol after that.

All went fine and they loved it. Well no, they didn't love it, but it went fine.

Get out there and don't be afraid of that big old world.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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perceptions_now
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #131 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 11:18am
 
Analysis: A month on, Japan nuclear crisis still scarring


(Reuters) - One month on, and the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant is still creating lasting scars.

Scariest is what cannot be seen in the images of vast destruction from March 11 natural disasters that led to the nuclear crisis -- namely radiation.

It could take months or years to learn how damaging the release of dangerous isotopes has been to human health, food supplies, marine life and the surrounding countryside.

The inability of Japanese authorities to regain full control of the plant will make villages nearby uninhabitable for a long time, drive people further away and risk damaging relations with neighboring countries.

For the global nuclear industry, the accident following the massive earthquake and tsunami will leave lasting sores. Some projects will be abandoned; some existing plants will close; costs will climb.

Nuclear experts say Fukushima will go down in history as the second-worst nuclear accident ever. Not as bad as Chernobyl in the Ukraine but definitely much worse than Three Mile Island in the United States.

"Fukushima is not the worst nuclear accident ever but it is the most complicated and the most dramatic," said James Acton, Associate of the Nuclear Policy Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.


"This was a crisis that played out in real time on TV. Chernobyl did not. This crisis just goes on and on."

It was not immediately clear how powerless operators were in those first days. But when the details are finally documented, the situation may well be more terrifying than anyone yet realizes.

PARTIAL MELTDOWNS & EXPLOSIONS
Clearly there were partial meltdowns in the reactors, there were explosions that blew apart major parts of the plant, and it is still not clear whether any of the reactor cores have melted through their protective steel containment vessels.

At the same time, at least one pool used to cool spent fuel rods was damaged, water that protects the rods leaked out, and a further huge radioactive danger created.

Throughout the past month, every time the authorities took measures to control one part of the plant it seemed to create problems elsewhere.

Only time will allow the industry to uncover the many as-yet unanswered questions:
How did the structure initially survive the earthquake? How did workers try to address the escalating disaster? And what, if any, upgrades were done at the 1970s era plant in Japan compared to similar U.S. plants?

As the small workforce of less than 400 at the giant six-reactor site battle multiple crises, experts say it could take months to bring plant located about 240 kilometers (150 miles) north of Tokyo under control and years to clean up the toxic mess.

"It will take months to address the immediate public health risks posed by the reactors and leaks of radioactive materials and years to clean up materials that have leaked and debris from the facilities," Eric Moore, an expert on nuclear safety at FocalPoint Consulting Group in Washington, DC, said.

GLOBAL CONSEQUENCES
But the consequences go far beyond Japan.

China and South Korea have become increasingly alarmed over the risk of radiation from the crippled reactors .

The disaster is also raising concerns over safety around the world, particularly in the United States, which has more reactors than any other country, and in Europe where Germany temporarily shut its seven oldest reactors.

And the nuclear industry, which before Fukushima was seen as a soldier in the fight again global warming, now has a lot of work to do to regain the public trust.

In China, 27 reactors remain under construction and the government still expects to add dozens more over the next couple of decades.

The nuclear industry still expects to grow in North America and around the world as a large, carbon free source of energy.

High-profile disasters in a U.S. coal mine and in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico have underscored the risks facing all forms of energy; at the same time concerns over global warming leave the world few options.

But nuclear power is expensive and construction of new reactors in some capitalist nations like the United States had slowed even before Fukushima.

"People will look back when they see that there were not many plants built this decade and will blame Fukushima, but the truth is the economics had already changed the situation,"
said Joseph Romm, a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress who oversees the Climate Progress blog.

"There is simply no other power source that can go from being a multibillion dollar asset to a multibillion liability in a matter of hours."

Link -
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/08/us-nuclear-japan-month-idUSTRE7377I120...
======================
A few observations -
1) Clearly the Fukushima situation is definitely much worse than Three Mile Island, which makes it at least a 6 on the INES rating system or arguably a 7.
2) This was, to an extent, the Nuclear industries Vietnam War, in so far as it was the first disaster of its type, played out before the world's media.

That is it was played out, in Public, from a distance!

However, like Chernobyl & three Mile Island before it, much of the really relevant information will remain hidden behind a wall of government misinformation, both in Japan & Globally!
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #132 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 4:01pm
 
Lack of Data Heightens Japan’s Nuclear Crisis


TOKYO — Nearly one month after Japan’s devastating nuclear accident, atomic energy experts, regulators and politicians around the world are still puzzling over a basic question: How much danger is still posed by the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant?

That depends to a considerable extent on how hot the uranium fuel rods at the power plant remain, and whether fuel has escaped its containment, or might still do so. Yet remarkably little is known for sure about what is really happening inside the reactors because some areas remain far too radioactive for workers to approach, and some instruments have malfunctioned.

The paucity of data
and the conflicting estimates of what the available information really means have prompted a series of confusing analyses and a rift between officials in Japan and those overseas — and even between one member of Congress and the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

The commission speculated this week that the nuclear fuel in the core of one of the stricken reactors had probably leaked from its thick steel pressure vessel, its most important protective barrier. If that proved to be accurate, it would raise the prospect of continuing fuel leaks and high levels of radioactive releases that would vastly complicate containment and the cleanup.

But Japanese officials said there was no evidence of a compromised pressure vessel, and they wondered why they were reading about it in the newspapers.

“If they have a concern, they should inform us,” said Kentaro Morita of Japan’s nuclear regulatory body, the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, after its American counterpart sounded the alarm over a possible nuclear fuel leak at the plant’s Reactor No. 2, clearly contradicting Japanese accounts. “They didn’t say such concerns to us directly,” Mr. Morita said.

From the start there have been differences, with the American authorities expressing a more pessimistic view than the Japanese.

The rift also highlights the difficulty of a debate in which both sides are forced to extrapolate possible situations with little access to crucial readings from inside the reactors.

Much of the automated measurement equipment in the reactors has been damaged, either by explosions in the early days of the crisis or by intense radiation since then. Damage to the reactors, as well as high radiation, has prevented technicians from making detailed assessments.

Even so, it is not easy to explain why such different theories are being offered on fundamental questions like whether radioactive fuel from the steel reactor pressure vessel at Unit No. 2 is leaking into the bottom of the containment structure.

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission cited high levels of radiation at one spot inside the containment structure at Reactor No. 2 as evidence for its analysis. In addition, extremely high levels of radiation were detected in the water from a recently stanched leak that ran from the reactor building into a drainage ditch and into the ocean.

The Japanese flatly deny that possibility. “At this moment we do not have any data that shows there has been leakage to the containment vessels,” said Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director general at the Japanese regulatory agency.

In addition, there is evidence that an explosion may have breached the primary containment structure, which may have allowed highly radioactive water into other parts of the plant and into the ocean.

This week, Representative Edward J. Markey, Democrat of Massachusetts, an outspoken critic, engaged in a running debate with members of the commission’s staff over the conditions at Reactor No. 2 in Japan. Mr. Markey said the regulators had told his staff that fuel was leaking from the reactor, but then the commission issued a more ambiguous public statement.

“I find it rather curious that some within the Nuclear Regulatory Commission are attempting to deny the findings their own technical staff conveyed to my office as soon as it became clear that this information showed a meltdown that is more severe than some people apparently wish to acknowledge,” Mr. Markey said in a statement.

On the Japanese side, officials have an obvious desire to avoid causing panic in public statements.

The Japanese also seem to prefer presenting raw data without explaining what they think it means, said Takashi Inoue, a professor of public relations at Waseda University. Every day, Tokyo Electric, the nuclear agency, the chief cabinet secretary and others hold news conferences at which they present a blizzard of facts and numbers but rarely make broader declarations about the conditions at Fukushima Daiichi.

Masashi Goto, a former Toshiba nuclear power plant designer, said that Japanese officials appeared to have decided that they gained nothing but panic from predicting outcomes. “They will never speak about the worst-case scenario,” he said. “They will never predict.”

Link -
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/09/world/asia/09nuclear.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
=================================
That's a reasonably fair way to put it!

A Paucity of information.

Paucity, meaning -
the presence of something only in small or insufficient quantities or amounts; scarcity
scantiness: a country with a paucity of resources

This is another situation where real facts are as scarce as hens teeth!
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #133 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 4:12pm
 
The only reason that it's bigger than Cernobyl is that they allowed Greenpeace in, and they will scare more people to death than the actual effects of any residual radiation.

The current levels in the Fukushima province are about on a par with Denver Colorado, except for a corridor running NW from the plant for about 40km, which is slightly elevated.

When the media stated that the levels are 100 times normal, or 100 times background, that's pretty meaningless because natural background radiation varies considerably with time and geographical location.

Meantime, we're forgetting about a massive Tsunami that killed about 27,000 people and totally destroyed entire settlements.

There needs to be some perspective.
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Re: Japan Nuclear Disaster-Bigger Than Chernobyl.
Reply #134 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 4:26pm
 
Nuclear Power the solution which just keeps on taking.

Recently the international community spent a few Billion to build a new containment dome over the chernobyl plant. Years after the incident and it is still costing billions and has produced nothing but death in decades.

The appropriatly named fukoshima will be no different - well actually it would do very well to only end up as bad.
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