Australian Politics Forum - Is this why NBN was hushed ??

Sprintcyclist

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 41859
Gender: male

Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Mar 24^th, 2011 at 8:25am

cause it's hit delat after delay after hurdle after change.

Now, the independants are getting lied to.

Quote:

THE government has backflipped on one of its key promises to the regional independents by proposing to allow the National Broadband Network to charge different access prices to regional and rural Australians.

Documents on the NBN legislation circulated by Communications Minister Stephen Conroy reveal the NBN Co could one day have the discretion to charge different prices for bush communities using wireless and satellite services than their city counterparts using fibre-optic cable.

The government has vowed repeatedly that there would be uniform pricing across the nation, but explanatory notes to the laws now say: "The price for NBN Co's entry-level service must be the same across Australia and across NBN Co's fibre, wireless and satellite networks. However, the prices for higher-speed services only need to be uniform within a specified technology, and not across all technologies."

The government reaffirmed yesterday its commitment to charge the same price for all broadband users signing up to the NBN's "entry-level" service of 12Mbps.

But the notes to new legislation being debated in the Senate suggest the predominantly regional customers accessing faster services over wireless or satellite in the future could be charged different rates to customers getting the same speeds on broadband.

The amendments exempt transactions under a planned $11 billion infrastructure-sharing deal between Telstra and NBN Co from state and territory stamp duties and any other form of state tax. The Victorian government said last night it had "reservations" about Canberra using its legislative powers to dictate to the states about the tax treatment of transactions.

The development on prices is an embarrassing about-face for the government, which was saved from a first-term election defeat last year by promising independent MPs Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott that rural and regional Australians would be charged the same wholesale broadband prices to access the NBN as their city-dwelling counterparts.

"For the first time, the government will put in place a cross-subsidy to achieve a uniform national wholesale price so that regional areas can pay the same price as people in the city," Labor's Commitment to Regional Australia deal states.

Mr Windsor said last night he expected the government to honour its promise "that NBN Co will charge the same amount for an equivalent service whether someone lives in the country or the city and whether it is delivered by fibre or wireless/satellite".Mr Oakeshott said he had no evidence that the agreements on uniform wholesale pricing regardless of location, which were a "substantial long-term win for regional Australia", had been breached.

But he warned: "If there is any evidence to suggest otherwise . . . it will be pursued vigorously."Independent senator Nick Xenophon said he would raise the matter with the government in discussions over the NBN bills.

The office of Family First senator Steve Fielding said the government "have told us that it isn't a problem because you can't get high speeds on wireless and satellite".

But the nation's No 2 telecommunications company, Optus, lashed out at the amendments, while farmers said they were worried the "digital divide" between the cities and the bush could widen.

Senator Conroy's office moved yesterday to defuse the perception of a policy backflip, saying the NBN Co had not yet committed to offering wireless or satellite services capable of delivering these "higher" speeds faster than the entry-level offering of 12Mbps.

"At this time, NBN Co is not providing higher-speed services over wireless or satellite," Senator Conroy's spokeswoman, Suzie Brady, said. "If in the future higher-speed wireless and/or satellite products become available, decisions on pricing will be made at that time...........

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labor-backflips-on-its-nbn-prom...

Back to top

Modern Classic Right Wing

IP Logged

Wattle Grove

Ex Member

Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Reply #1 - Mar 24^th, 2011 at 8:56am

This is from Yahoo

Quote:

The federal government has been criticised for making a last-minute backflip on its national broadband network.

Communications Minister Stephen Conroy has proposed to scrap a "cherry picking" rule that would have protected the company building the $36 billion project from competition.

Telstra has previously raised objections to Labor's existing legislation.

On Wednesday afternoon, Senator Conroy put forward an amendment that would allow potential NBN Co rivals to install optical fibre cables before the government business enterprise did.

The private-sector networks would have to emulate NBN Co and service residential and small-business premises on an "open access, wholesale-only basis".

"The provisions are fundamental to the government's policy that NBN Co deliver uniform national wholesale prices, and the ability of NBN Co to cross-subsidise from high-value areas to less profitable areas like most of regional Australia," he said.

Still, opposition communications spokesman Malcolm Turnbull said the amendments would still fail to ensure the NBN remained a wholesale-only enterprise.

"It would mean that the private sector telcos would run a very real risk of being limited to the small business and residential markets," he said.

This would make the NBN a monopoly of fixed-line services, "thereby depriving the private sector of a large part of their business".

The government plans to introduce its amendment into the Senate on Thursday, when debate on the NBN Companies bill resumes.

But Mr Turnbull said this gave senators little time to consider and vote on Labor's 23 pages of amendments.

Parliament goes into recess from Thursday until the May budget.

Last week, Labor senators on a communications committee defended proposals to protect NBN Co from competition, arguing the telcos needed to be prevented from targeting lucrative markets and leaving the government business enterprise with high-cost, low-revenue customers.

Senator Conroy proposed another amendment to make transactions between NBN Co and Telstra exempt from state and territory government stamp duties.

"As a fundamental component of these historic reforms, the definitive agreements are not part of normal business operations," he said.

The rollout of the NBN is expected to be completed by 2018.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/9063476/govt-panned-for-last-minute-n...

where does it say in there that there is going to be prices

Back to top

IP Logged

cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ?? Reply #2 - Mar 24^th, 2011 at 11:38am backflip...never!! who ever heard opf this govt doing a backflip?? tsk tsk..
Back to top	IP Logged

mavisdavis Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1512	Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ?? Reply #3 - Mar 24^th, 2011 at 2:07pm Awww, all politicians lie, it`s OK.
Back to top	IP Logged

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Reply #4 - Mar 24^th, 2011 at 7:22pm

mavisdavis wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 2:07pm:

Awww, all politicians lie, it`s OK.

well its not OK with me.. maybe you and the rusted on on here.. but not with me... to say beofr an election

THERE WILL NO BE A CARBON TAX IN A GOVT I LEAD.AND THEN A FEW MONTHS LATER SAY

THERE WILL BE A CARBON TAX BUT WE DONT KNOW WHAT IT WILL BE BECAUSE WE DONT KNOW OURSELVES YET..

BUT YOU WILL GET IT BEFORE ANOTHER ELECTION

so tuff luck

Back to top

IP Logged

nairbe

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2587
Rural NSW
Gender: male

Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Reply #5 - Mar 24^th, 2011 at 7:48pm

cods wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 7:22pm:

mavisdavis wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 2:07pm:

Awww, all politicians lie, it`s OK.

well its not OK with me.. maybe you and the rusted on on here.. but not with me... to say beofr an election

THERE WILL NO BE A CARBON TAX IN A GOVT I LEAD.AND THEN A FEW MONTHS LATER SAY

THERE WILL BE A CARBON TAX BUT WE DONT KNOW WHAT IT WILL BE BECAUSE WE DONT KNOW OURSELVES YET..

BUT YOU WILL GET IT BEFORE ANOTHER ELECTION

so tuff luck

still wondering where it says that they can charge different prices?????

As for back flips and forgotten promises, no they are not ok but they have become part of the political landscape for as long as i can remember. Think of;

"no child will live in poverty"

"there will never be a GST"

"coure and non-coure promises"

"no carbon tax"

There are so many more, the only party that has never gone back on a promise is the won that has never been elected.

Back to top

"Faced with what is right, to leave it undone shows a lack of courage."
Confucius

IP Logged

mozzaok

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Reply #6 - Mar 24^th, 2011 at 10:45pm

The NBN is going to deliver a fantastic new telecommunications infrastructure that will serve our country for generations, and will for the first time ever, see people in rural areas able to connect to broadband, and have it delivered for the same price as people in the city will pay for the same service.
That is a massive, and very worthy achievement that no Liberal government would ever dream of doing for rural Australia.

That you are not up to speed on tech stuff is fair enough.
That you take the latest round of anti-NBN propaganda from the terminally biased rag, The Australian, as actual news, rather than being the unashamedly deceitful Liberal Party songbook lyrics, from it's faithful mouthpiece, is however, certainly not fair enough.

The government does still appear to be committed to seeing the NBN providing the basic 12Mbps, offered to all users, both rural and metropolitan, for the same price.

The only danger to that happening is if the Libs under a loon like Abbott get in, and with their usual disdain for the bush, decide to bugger up the Labor plan, out of spite.

As I know you Know nothing about tech stuff, I will try and explain simply for you, what this bulldust article you linked to is saying.

First off, remember this important fact, 93% of people will have access to the FIBRE OPTIC network, and city, or country, there is no suggestion, even from lying Liberals, that any of the plans that access this brilliant new fibre network, will be offered at different prices for the country than the city.
OK, so got that, 93% of aussies are, non starters, for this Liberal scare campaign.

So, that leaves the 7% of rural users who through their remoteness, will need to connect by satellite, or wireless.
They will be offered the basic 12Mbps plans, and the wholesale price which is fixed for these base plans, at I believe $24 per month, for ALL users, would apply to these rural users as well.
Now you may want to ask around, and see what they are being charged now for their current wireless or satellite connections, and see if you can find a single user who will object to the greatly reduced price they will be getting from the new NBN offerings.

So what is the big deal you may ask?
What is The Australian talking about?

What they are making this scare campaign about is the small percentage, of the originally small percentage, meaning perhaps up to 10% of those original 7% of rural users who only get satellite or wireless, who wish to buy higher speed plans than the 12Mbps the NBN is offering.
The reasons are technical, and part of the reason why wireless is not suitable as a backbone service, despite Liberal lies suggesting otherwise, but rather as a complimentary service, as the availability and cost of providing higher speeds via satellite and wireless are significant, and hence the government will not guarantee supplying these super high speed wireless services for the same price as they can deliver super high speeds via the fibre optic network.

So the reality is that less than 1% of NBN users who MAY wish to pay for super high speed wireless or satellite, will have to pay more for that higher speed of service, than those who get those super high speeds via Fibre.

Get it?

Do you still wonder why I consider the Libs pathetic posturing over the NBN as dishonest, and deliberately aimed at fostering confusion and fear?
They really shame themselves with these types of antics.

Back to top

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

IP Logged

qikvtec

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1846
Queensland

Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Reply #7 - Mar 24^th, 2011 at 10:49pm

mozzaok wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 10:45pm:

The NBN is going to deliver a fantastic new telecommunications infrastructure that will serve our country for generations, and will for the first time ever, see people in rural areas able to connect to broadband, and have it delivered for the same price as people in the city will pay for the same service.
That is a massive, and very worthy achievement that no Liberal government would ever dream of doing for rural Australia.

That you are not up to speed on tech stuff is fair enough.
That you take the latest round of anti-NBN propaganda from the terminally biased rag, The Australian, as actual news, rather than being the unashamedly deceitful Liberal Party songbook lyrics, from it's faithful mouthpiece, is however, certainly not fair enough.

The government does still appear to be committed to seeing the NBN providing the basic 12Mbps, offered to all users, both rural and metropolitan, for the same price.

The only danger to that happening is if the Libs under a loon like Abbott get in, and with their usual disdain for the bush, decide to bugger up the Labor plan, out of spite.

As I know you Know nothing about tech stuff, I will try and explain simply for you, what this bulldust article you linked to is saying.

First off, remember this important fact, 93% of people will have access to the FIBRE OPTIC network, and city, or country, there is no suggestion, even from lying Liberals, that any of the plans that access this brilliant new fibre network, will be offered at different prices for the country than the city.
OK, so got that, 93% of aussies are, non starters, for this Liberal scare campaign.

So, that leaves the 7% of rural users who through their remoteness, will need to connect by satellite, or wireless.
They will be offered the basic 12Mbps plans, and the wholesale price which is fixed for these base plans, at I believe $24 per month, for ALL users, would apply to these rural users as well.
Now you may want to ask around, and see what they are being charged now for their current wireless or satellite connections, and see if you can find a single user who will object to the greatly reduced price they will be getting from the new NBN offerings.

So what is the big deal you may ask?
What is The Australian talking about?

What they are making this scare campaign about is the small percentage, of the originally small percentage, meaning perhaps up to 10% of those original 7% of rural users who only get satellite or wireless, who wish to buy higher speed plans than the 12Mbps the NBN is offering.
The reasons are technical, and part of the reason why wireless is not suitable as a backbone service, despite Liberal lies suggesting otherwise, but rather as a complimentary service, as the availability and cost of providing higher speeds via satellite and wireless are significant, and hence the government will not guarantee supplying these super high speed wireless services for the same price as they can deliver super high speeds via the fibre optic network.

So the reality is that less than 1% of NBN users who MAY wish to pay for super high speed wireless or satellite, will have to pay more for that higher speed of service, than those who get those super high speeds via Fibre.

Get it?

Do you still wonder why I consider the Libs pathetic posturing over the NBN as dishonest, and deliberately aimed at fostering confusion and fear?
They really shame themselves with these types of antics.

That is the wholesale, not retail price you've quoted right?

Back to top

Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

IP Logged

mozzaok

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Reply #8 - Mar 24^th, 2011 at 11:01pm

Yes, it is the WHOLESALE price, for the base plan, which is 12Mbps down, and 1 up.

Here are some of the wholesale prices for other plans.
The fact is that each ISP will offer different plans, and different pricing, but we can probably expect to see a return to more lower data plans, and fewer "unlimited" data plans being offered, as the amount you could download with high speed fibre would be massive.

Quote:

The plan also includes first details of NBN’s planned wholesale pricing, with a base service of 12 Mbps download speed and 1 Mbps upload speed available to retail service providers for $24 a month across fibre, wireless and satellite. A 50/20 Mbps speed will cost $34, 100/40 Mbps $38 and 1000/400 Mbps $150. Bear in mind those are wholesale prices, not the cost of services likely to be offered by retailers.

Back to top

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

IP Logged

Sprintcyclist

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 41859
Gender: male

Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Reply #9 - Mar 24^th, 2011 at 11:38pm

mozzaok

Quote:

.......remember this important fact, 93% of people will have access to the FIBRE OPTIC network.....

remember this important fact - LOTS already have.
At NO cost to the tax payer.

http://www.archive.dbcde.gov.au/2010/october/annual_report_2008-09/section_2_-_p...

what would you guess todays figure would be ?
80 %
and by the time the leftys nbn is up, it would have alrady been over 90% at NO cost to the tax payer.

remember that important fact

Back to top

Modern Classic Right Wing

IP Logged

mozzaok

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Reply #10 - Mar 25^th, 2011 at 12:22am

lol, sprint, access to

Fibre

,
It is a NEW network, state of the art you know, fast, reliable, modern, and cheap to maintain, and upgrade.

The old Copper network was being held together with chewing gum and prayers, each equally effective.

The NBN is about building a 21st century telecommunications network, while the Liberal alternative was about how to maintain a 19th century one.

That and the fact that it would also massively reduce the telecommunication black holes that plague so much of Australia outside the Capital Cities, and offer usable broadband speeds , and fairer pricing for all those people outside the Capital Cities as well.

It is both Modern, and Fair, which I guess is why the Libs find it so hard to comprehend.

Back to top

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

IP Logged

Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41859 Gender:	Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ?? Reply #11 - Mar 25^th, 2011 at 12:36am fibres already in most streets. At NO cost to the taxpayer over 80% of aussies are already on broadband, you agree to this as you have not denied it. you lose "fair" ???????????????? cut the leftard jingle, tell me how much it costs and what benefit i get.
Back to top	Modern Classic Right Wing IP Logged

bomen_guy

Senior Member

Offline

http://aussie-aussie
-aussie.proboards.co
m/index.cg

Posts: 363

Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Reply #12 - Mar 25^th, 2011 at 5:18am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 25^th, 2011 at 12:36am:

fibres already in most streets. At NO cost to the taxpayer

over 80% of aussies are already on broadband, you agree to this as you have not denied it.

you lose

"fair" ????????????????
cut the leftard jingle, tell me how much it costs and what benefit i get.

another andrei Its all about me stuff everyone else

Back to top

THE WORST LABOR GOVERNMENT IS 100% BETTER THEN THE BEST LIBERAL GOVERNMENT

IP Logged

mozzaok

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Reply #13 - Mar 25^th, 2011 at 6:51am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 25^th, 2011 at 12:36am:

fibres already in most streets. At NO cost to the taxpayer

over 80% of aussies are already on broadband, you agree to this as you have not denied it.

you lose

"fair" ????????????????
cut the leftard jingle, tell me how much it costs and what benefit i get.

I guess he was pie eyed last night, he provided a graph showing 52% of aussies as the highest figure with broadband, and kept going on about 80%, a figure pulled from the rear orifice of the Liberal party book of lies that only an absolutely soused, rusted on, would be able to believe.
No doubt he saw the 80% figure somewhere, about something to do with broadband, so I guess he decided just making up the rest was good form, at least consistent, I guess.
I do not know what the 80%, he falsely asserts was the number of aussies with broadband, really did refer to when he originally got confused(read absolutely bloody wrong, again) but if I had to guess I would expect it may be the percentage of Aussies that live in Capital cities who could get access to ADSL2, theoretically speaking, if the copper network was in better shape.

He also falsely stated that fibre is already in most streets, what a maroon.
A traditional, I'm alright, bugger you mate, Liberal supporter, asking te perennial question of the selfish and uncaring, "what's in it for me?"

Well you will get access to faster, more reliable, internet, for a start.
You will also get the chance to have a big whinge as you anticipate the glee of posting on every bulldust lie that the Libs can come up with, about the NBN, until it is completed. Wink

You also piped up with the little gem that because I had not directly called your idiotic claims, where you guessed 80% and 90%, that you must be right, well if you want to look like less of a goose on this matter, just work on the assumption that everything you believe, and everything you think you know, is WRONG, then you will be starting to get at least one thing right.
Everything you say, and everything you contended is wrong sprint, you did not get a single fact right, not even close to right, on anything, but I guess you must be getting used to that, supporting looney Tone as you do.

Back to top

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Is this why NBN was hushed ??
Reply #14 - Mar 25^th, 2011 at 7:02am

Quote:

The government does still appear to be committed to seeing the NBN providing the basic 12Mbps, offered to all users, both rural and metropolitan, for the same price.

im so excited!!! the NBN is going to give me the exact same service I have already had for years and 85% of australians already have.... and it is only going to cost $43B plus cost overruns and the annual losses it wil make! I feel all tingly inside at the thought of getting a new shiny thinga-ama-bob that is the same as my old one.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged