I'm certain that the recent earthquake, Tsunami & the subsequent damage to the Fukushima Nuclear power plant, will have far reaching consequences, both in Japan & Globally.

This thread is a search for all of the issues arising from these events, including purely environmental issues, but also the human consequences of these events.

To start the ball rolling, I have just come accross the following article, which provides one insight


One consequence of the Japanese earthquake and tsunami that is not receiving as much press as the ongoing struggle to cool the damaged reactors, but which continues to influence more people, is the lack of fuel.

Nine of the Japanese refineries were damaged and put out of action, and this dropped the amount of fuel being refined from 4,500,000 bd down to 3,100,000 bd.

The lack of fuel for transportation affects not only those in the disaster area, but also those away from it, since food and fuel itself depend on transport to move it to customers around the country.

"What we urgently need now is fuel, heavy and light oil, water and food. More than anything else, we need fuel because we can't do anything without it. We can't stay warm or work the water pumps," said Masao Hara, the mayor of Koriyama city, in Fukushima prefecture.

Fuel needs are not just gasoline and diesel for vehicles. With the bitter cold that remains over much of the north of Japan, and no electric power, kerosene is also needed for heating. For domestic heating many homes rely on kerosene stoves to heat individual rooms in use, rather than using central heating. Stocks had been falling before the earthquake, due to the severe winter this year. And with stocks being sent to help refugees, there are now shortages in other parts of Japan.

While there are some indications that the nuclear problems may be being brought under control, the problems of fuel shortage and the cascading problem of food, fuel, and other resource distribution that it brings with it are likely to remain in Japan for several weeks as the crisis continues.

Link -
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7697
=====================================
So, not only has electrical power been possibly permanently knocked at the Fukushima plant by this event, but nearly one third of Japans fuel supply capacity has also been knocked out by the same event and that capacity will take a lot longer than a few weeks to sort out.

With Nuclear power likely to be greatly reduced, there are now suggestions of building new Fossil Fuel powered stations, but many of these will have long gestation periods and that process may be further exacerbated by the need to rebuild a great deal of infrastructure, such as roads & ports.

In addition, if Japan does shift further away from Nuclear power and closer to Fossil Fuels, then the Global costs of Oil, Coal & Gas, will undertake a further substantial rise, as a result of that increasing Demand, particularly at a time when the Supply of Oil & Coal is going to be in Decline!

As this event recedes and, in particular, the final outcomes on the Fukushima power plant are realised, attention will shift to the future of what to do with the Fukushima plant & other Japanese reactors.

The outcome of those discussions will reverberate around not only Japan, but the entire world!

That said and by way of caution, in all of those discussions we should bear in mind that we are in a period of expanding Demand, which is likely to continue for some time yet, barring a complete breakdown in Global Economics.

We are also in a period, where the Supply of sources of Energy, for Power & Fuels is set to contract and that contraction when set against a greater Demand will drive Energy Prices thru the roof, thereby drastically affecting the Global Economy.

So, in the short to medium term, whether we like it or not, whether we want it or not, Nuclear power may well be something we may find impossible to discard?    

That is but one of the consequences of the recent Japanese earthquake, Tsunami & Fukushima Nuclear site events, there are many more, what's yours?

It's really hard to imagine any one substance willingly in use by humans that could take months to be artificially cooled and around 15 years to be mostly cleaned up after a single industrial accident...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident

Quote:



3 decades later, and the reactor site still hasn't been fully cleaned up...

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2011 at 10:28pm:


Yes, but the Chernobyl accident was much more serious. The design was such that when the building blew up, the reactor core was visible from the air, and the helicopter crews reported seeing the bright light from the exposed fuel rods, just before they died. (most of them). They did not manage to retract the control rods at Chernobyl. I've read just about every report that came out of Chernobyl. It was a sobering example of what can go wrong with bad management. 

The question is that of cleanup of the area around Fukushima.  The most badly contaminated area is about 20-30km North of the plant.  The main issue will be Cs isotopes. Iodine is more of a problem for the first month or so, and it is relatively volatile anyway (for a solid).

It's unlikely that either Uranium or Plutonium will be found any distance from the plant, or even outside the immediate plant area.

Equitist wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2011 at 11:13pm:


I can imagine emissions of carbon dioxide killing more people over the next 200 years than all the radioactive accidents in history.

Foolosophy, which do you think has the most serious far reaching consequences?

Fukushima or the burning of fossil fuels.

March 23 (Bloomberg) -- Early morning earthquakes rattled Japan’s crippled nuclear plant as engineers restored lighting at a control room and endeavored to connect power cables needed to cool the reactors.

Four quakes of 5-magnitude or greater struck eastern Honshu, Japan, within an hour starting at 7:12 a.m. local time, according to the U.S. Geological Survey website. There was no impact on the Fukushima Dai-Ichi plant itself, the Japan Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said in a statement.

Restoring power is key to ending the crisis at four unstable reactors that have leaked radiation into the ocean and forced the government to evacuate thousands of local residents.

Lights are on in the control room at the No. 3 reactor and there is some lighting working at No. 4, the company said today. Reactors No. 5 and 6 are already supplied with electricity.

“They’ve made considerable progress bringing equipment to the plant and restoring power,” David Lochbaum, director of nuclear safety at the Cambridge, Massachusetts-based Union of Concerned Scientists, said on a conference call with reporters. “But they’re not out of the woods yet. They are working with razor-thin margins.”

Decaying Fuel Rods
Seventy percent of the fuel rods at the No. 1 reactor may be damaged and 33 percent at the No. 2 unit, Tokyo Electric said on March 16.

The first four reactors at Fukushima will likely have to be decommissioned after being damaged by seawater brought in to keep them cool, Lochbaum said. It’s unclear whether reactors No. 5 and 6 will be able to operate again, he said.

“On March 10 they had a multibillion-dollar asset that generated a lot of electricity,” Lochbaum said. “On March 11 they had a multibillion-dollar liability that’s going to cost a lot to clean up.”

Food Screening
Five kinds of radioactive materials released by damaged fuel rods were detected in the sea, including iodine-131, cesium-134 and cobalt, according to Tokyo Electric. Radiation in food is measured in Becquerel, a gauge of the strength of radioactivity in those materials. The prescribed safe limit for I-131 in vegetables is set at 2,000 Becquerel (Bq) per kilogram and 500 Bq/kg for radioactive cesium.

Screening food for radiation is being stepped up as Japan seeks to calm a population that eats more fish than any other nation except China. Shih-Yew Chen, a researcher at Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois, said the levels found so far in milk and vegetables could cause a slight increase in the number of cancer cases.

Contaminated Vegetables


The death toll from Japan’s worst postwar disaster climbed to 9,199 as of 11 p.m. yesterday, with 13,786 people missing, according to the National Police Agency in Tokyo.

Link -
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ap4eMTkFcXrI&pos=9
======================

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2011 at 12:57pm:


On ABC National this morning they had several crates of spinach from Ibaraki prefecture at the main vegetable market in Tokyo. Nobody would buy them.

To put the highlighted section in perspective, the natural background radiation in Japan is 0.1-0.3 uSv/hr which corresponds to a dose over 10 days of 72uSv. Over a Year, the total natural dose is 0.8- 2.6mSv.

Now half of that is roughly 1mSv. Dividing that by 240 hours gives us 4uSv /hr. If I was faced with the choice of eating that spinach or starving, I would carefully wash the spinach, since most of the Cesium will be in the form of Cesium carbonate dust on the leaves. I would then cook it with spices and paneer (Indian cottage cheese) and serve it with some freshly prepared biryani(which is coincidentally what I'm making tonight) , comfortable in the fact that  my dose was significantly less than 1/10 of the radioactive dose rate of the average inhabitant of La Paz, Bolivia or Denver Colorado, and considerably less than the average intercontinental frequent flyer.  

Incidentally, the radioactive dose from sleeping next to a human for 8 hours every night is around 0.02 mSv/yr, so that's relatively safe too.  

The concern of course is pockets of higher concentration in the vegetables, but I'd still prepare them the same way and eat them if they were ten times that dose rate.

By the way, the other element not mentioned so far is Strontium 90. After a month or so, Cs-137 and Strontium-90 will be the major contaminants. Cs-137 is a gamma emitter and Sr -90 is a beta emitter. The worst form of radiation for ingestion or inhalation is alpha particle radiation by a factor of 20.

The worst conseuqence is that we now have to listen to nuffies saying that this non-meltdown is somehow 'proof' that nuclear power is unviable in australia. 

Not too many 9.0 earthquakes or 40 year old reactors in australia is there?

see what I mean?

what's a 'casm of knowledge'?

TOKYO (AP) — A spike in radiation levels in Tokyo tap water spurred new fears about food safety Wednesday as rising black smoke forced another evacuation of workers trying to stabilize Japan's radiation-leaking nuclear plant.

Concerns about food safety spread Wednesday to Tokyo after officials said tap water showed elevated levels: 210 becquerels per liter of iodine-131 — more than twice the recommended limit of 100 becquerels per liter for infants.

"It is really scary. It is like a vicious negative spiral from the nuclear disaster," said Etsuko Nomura, a mother of two young children ages 2 and 5. "We have contaminated milk and vegetables, and now tap water in Tokyo, and I'm wondering what's next."

Infants are particularly vulnerable to radioactive iodine, which can cause thyroid cancer, experts say. The limits refer to sustained consumption rates, and officials urged calm, saying parents should stop giving the tap water to babies, but that it was no worry if the infants already had consumed small amounts.

They said the levels posed no immediate health risk for children or adults.

"Even if you drink this water for one year, it will not affect people's health," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said.

Parents might want to be more cautious if they have a choice about what water to drink — "nobody wants to drink radioactive water," he said.

In a new setback, black smoke billowed from Unit 3, prompting another evacuation of workers from the plant Wednesday afternoon, Tokyo Electric Power Co. officials said, but they said there had been no corresponding spike in radiation at the plant.

"We don't know the reason" for the smoke, Hidehiko Nishiyama of the Nuclear Safety Agency said.

And for the first time, Edano suggested that those downwind of the plant, even those just outside the zone, should stay indoors with the windows shut tight.

Link -
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-23-japan_N.htm
========================
Those happy to trust the words of Politicians, should consider the outcome for many of those directly & indirectly involved other events, where words were offered by Politicians, such as -
1) Three Mile Island.
2) Chernobyl
3) Maralinga

There are very apparent reasons, why the phrase "Trust me, I'm a Politician", is one of the worlds most applicable Oxymorons!

muso wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 8:59am:


Yes this reluctance to acknowledge a toxic health risk enables the USA to make the tips of their armour piercing missles with depleted Uranium.

No harm done - I wonder why the cancer rates in children were reported as up to 7 times higher than normal in parts of Iraq? (During a three week period of conflict in 2003 in Iraq, 1,000 to 2,000 tonnes of Depleted Uranium munitions were used)

Uranium is classed as a toxic metal. (there is a extreme toxicity and lingering in the natural environment of certain radioactive isotopes of Uranium and its myriad of transuranics that form in nuclear reactors, nuclear tests and GOD forbid a nuclear bomb attack)

Gee I wonder why Lead was removed as an Octane modifier for transport fuels?

I can handle Lead with my hands too - and most bullets have lead in them and are handled without gloves - must be OK then to distribute lead throughout the environment and incorporate it within the food chain

muso wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 10:11am:


A criminal act under any legal regime - including their own.

But Imperialist powers that impose tyrannical foreign policy objectives on behalf of their corporate masters can do what they wish for a long time but inevitably fall over in the end for the same reasons.

So Iraq ended up POSSESING WMD;s after all - in the form a finley distributed Uranium based dust - courtesy of the US free Market enterprise system (that only applies free market discipline to the small people, the small busineses - THE CORRUPT CORPORATIONS and BANKS ARE JUST TOO BIG TO FAIL - THEY REQUIRE SOCIALIST CORPORATE WELFARE TO SUSTAIN THEIR INEFFICIENT AND CRIMINAL ACTIVITES)

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 2:36pm:



....a meal that is coming to your port very soon

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 4:07pm:



LOL - I didn't notice his insane hypothetical of 'An asteroid hitting the pacific' before.

Hahaha - if an asteroid of any note hits the earth, what becomes of a nuclear reactor is the least of your worries.  Hey maybe it wasn't the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, it was all their nuclear reactors going into meltdown after the fact!

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 5:57pm:


Yes, I should have said 18 FOOT seawalls...I admit the error...

However, even 40 year old reators are 'hardened' against earthquakes and plane impacts....

I have searched without luck the whole globe for ONE - JUST ONE - Nuclear physicist or anyone working in the nuclear power industry that disputes the science of AGW.

I have also looked for scientists employed by the coal industry and cant seem to find ONE who thinks that nuclear power is cheap clean and safe

wonder why that is the case?

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 25^th, 2011 at 7:42am:


He receives no funding from the Nuclear POWER industry - he is a theoretical particle physicist.

DId you actually read my post?

Incidentally his views go totally against his own Physicst Association - both in Italy, the USA and the International body - They dont seem to have any problem with the high school level science that underpinns AGW.

WHo else have you got?

Did you pick up the mathematical anomaly in Zichichi's quantum derivation behind him?

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 25^th, 2011 at 9:38am:


Sure I read your post..."Nuclear physicist OR anyone working in the nuclear power industry"

A professor of Nuclear Physics is a nuclear physicist

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 25^th, 2011 at 4:14pm:



LOL.  give it up fool, you got pwned!!!

... wrote on Mar 25^th, 2011 at 4:58pm:


I got what?

....still waiting

where are the nuclear physicists and CEO's etc in the NUCLEAR POWER INDUSTRY who publically denouce the high school level science that underpinns AGW?

where are the scientists who work in the coal industry that publically claim that Nuclear Fission based power plants are CLEAN, SAFE and CHEAP?

good luck

Updated 38 minutes ago



A new shadow has been cast over efforts to control the radiation leak at the plant and

the government says it is worried highly radioactive water is leaking from reactor No. 3.

Speaking through an interpreter, prime minister Naoto Kan says the situation there remains grave and unpredictable, but he has paid tribute to the plant workers in an address to the nation.

"We are trying to prevent a deterioration of the situation and

we are still not in a position where we can be optimistic

," he said.

Mr Kan has called for national unity.

"I would like to encourage the Japanese public to strengthen our unity and to work with our hearts as one to overcome this disaster," he said.

The reactor is a particular concern because it is the only one of six at the plant to use a potentially volatile mix of uranium and plutonium.

A hydrogen explosion badly damaged the unit's outer building on March 14 and

a partial meltdown is also suspected.

Two workers from the plant were rushed to hospital on Thursday after receiving radiation burns from standing in a puddle with a radiation level 10,000 times higher than normal.

Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO), which operates the stricken plant, said it may take another month to achieve a cold shutdown - when reactor temperatures fall below boiling point and cooling systems are back at atmospheric pressure.

TEPCO has now reported suspected damage at reactor number three.

"It is possible that the pressure vessel containing the fuel rods in the reactor is damaged,"

a TEPCO spokesman said.

The new safety scare could hamper urgent efforts to restore power to the all-important cooling systems at the plant.

"Radioactive substances have leaked to places far from the reactor," said Hideyuki Nishiyama, a spokesman for Japan's nuclear safety agency.

"As far as the data show, we believe there is a certain level of containment ability but it's highly possible that the reactor is damaged."

Higher radioactivity has also been detected in the ocean near the Fukushima plant on Japan's Pacific coast, raising public fears about the safety of fish and seaweed, traditional staples in the island nation's diet.

China, South Korea and the EU have now joined Australia, the United States, Russia and other nations in restricting food imports from Japan, which itself has halted vegetable and dairy shipments from the region near the atomic plant.

Two weeks after a giant earthquake hit and sent a massive tsunami crashing into the Pacific coast,

the death toll from Japan's worst post-war disaster topped 10,000 and there was scant hope for 17,500 others still missing.

The tsunami obliterated entire towns and some 250,000 homeless in almost 2,000 shelters are still braving privations and a winter chill, with a degree of discipline and dignity that has impressed the world.

Link -
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/26/3174367.htm?section=justin
============================

The following descriptions of the may be of interest


• Major release of radioactive material with widespread health and environmental effects requiring implementation of planned and
extended countermeasures.

• Significant release of radioactive material likely to require implementation of planned countermeasures


• Limited release of radioactive material likely to require implementation of some planned countermeasures.
• Several deaths from radiation.
• Severe damage to reactor core.
• Release of large quantities of radioactive material within an installation with a high probability of significant public exposure. This
could arise from a major criticality accident or fire.


• Minor release of radioactive material unlikely to result in implementation of planned countermeasures other than local food controls.
• At least one death from radiation.
• Fuel melt or damage to fuel resulting in more than 0.1% release of core inventory.
• Release of significant quantities of radioactive material within an installation with a high probability of significant public exposure.


1)  This situation is beyond -
• Limited release of radioactive material likely to require implementation of some planned countermeasures
• Release of large quantities of radioactive material within an installation with a high probability of significant public exposure.
And therefore has gone beyond the INES rating 5!

2) The INES parameters for levels 6 & 7 appear to be somewhat VAGUE?
Deliberately so?

3) Arguably, this event is now either a 6 or a 7, dependent on the Known Unknowns & the Unknown Unknowns?

INES Rating Link -
http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Factsheets/English/ines.pdf

It is said that the Fukushima incident was a level 6 the moment of the first explosion (In fact the French Authorities classed it as a 6 very early on even without the information the Japanese Government had)

In those early stages the Japanese didnt even recognise a level 4 incident.

They have been purposefully sluggish in rating this incident which isnt under control as yet.

Level 7 is a possibility if enough pressure builds up in any of the stricken reactors and a major inner containment explosion occurs with radioactive material ejected into the atimsphere and environment.

The only thing we cant get is a nulcear explosion (not possible with low grade nuclear material - ie 3 or 4% Uranium)

Some psuedo-comfort for the Japanese people who have been sprayed before with radioactive material in that famous terrorist act of 1945

Equitist wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 5:29pm:


It has been a level 6 from early on in this incident. I agree with the French assessment

...I doubt the accuracy of the radiation levels that the Japenese government and the Japanese corporation are releasing to the public.

THe fukushima nuclear power facility is now a nuclear waste dump.

And what's worse is that this waste dump doesnt meet any regulatory standards - it can still go from its current critical situation to a catastrophic one without warming.

Updated 45 minutes ago

The operator of Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear plant says the radioactivity in water that has accumulated at the No. 2 reactor is 10 million times the usual level.

Radiation levels in the sea off the the plant are also on the rise.

The offshore radiation levels have now risen to 1,850 times normal from 1,250 on Saturday, Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.



Mr Amano, a former Japanese diplomat who visited Japan after the quake, says authorities are still unsure about whether the plant's reactor cores and spent fuel are covered with the water needed to cool them.

On Thursday, three workers were taken to hospital from reactor No. 3 after stepping in water with radiation levels 10,000 times higher than usually found in a reactor.  

That raised fears the core's container could be damaged.

Two of the plant's reactors are now seen as safe but the other four are volatile, occasionally emitting steam and smoke.



The crisis at the plant, 240 kilometres north of Tokyo, has overshadowed a relief and recovery effort from the magnitude 9.0 quake and the huge tsunami it triggered on March 11 that left more than 27,100 people dead or missing in north-east Japan.

Link -
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/27/3174927.htm
=========================

A few observations -
It seems some "officials" may have spent some time on the rack, as they don't appear to have too many problems, "lying straight"?

1) The event on Thursday was 10,000 times higher than usually found in a reactor.
The event today was 10 million times higher than usually found in a reactor.
The offshore radiation levels have now risen to 1,850 times normal from 1,250 on Saturday.
Authorities are still unsure about whether the plant's reactor cores and spent fuel are covered with the water needed to cool them.
There are raised fears that the core's container could be damaged.



In the Australian vernacular,

that is a pile of sh!T!

 

muso wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 8:13am:



I'm not sure that your assessment is correct, Muso - since there is already a large volume of residual concentrated sea water (and/or crystallised salt) in each of the reactor buildings, the addition of fresh water will cause the salt concentration of the resulting mixture to 'resemble' that of sea water...

Moreover, as I understand it, the continual addition of salty sea water will increase the salt concentration to dangerously-corrosive and potentially-system-clogging levels...

At this stage, therefore, the emergency solutions really boil down to choosing betwixt the lesser of theoretical evils (please excuse the obvious puns)...

Equitist wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 8:30am:


Yes - If they substitute  fresh water, the salt content in the reactor will decrease and the boiling point will also decrease.  That's what I tried to say anyway.

I know there are obvious upsides, I was just pointing out the downside (temporary increase in steam emissions as the salt is dissolved away from the surface of the reactor rods) It produces pockets of heat.

muso wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 8:33am:


So Health becomes a stochastic game that is acceprtable in order to facilitate corporate power and profits

Interesting how it only takes one cell to be mutated by radiation - One DNA bond on the double Helix to be broken, shifted and there is the cancerous cell that will ruin ones life or even kill you.

You hear things like "Oh its just like having a CT scan).

Well some of these CT scans are equivalient in radiation exposure to 140 standard chest X-rays.

And at what point in Human History has the CT scan been classified as just part of a natural Health plan for individuals?

Then you hear about increased radiation exposure when flying in a plane at high altitude.

Being exposed to elevated levels of cosmic rays is not equivalent to having radioactive isotopes line your lungs or absorb into your skin - left there to decay and do their thing - which I understand is cellular destruction and DNA alteration.

muso wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 8:59am:


Once you cook anything at temperatures above 140 degC  you are at elevated risk of contracting cancer - a set of reactions take place above this temperature that produce all sorts of carcinogens (even below this temperature)

To aritificially concentrate rare earth elements such as Uranium into what will essentially become a radioactive waste dump that needs to be dealt in the unimaginably distant future is not only irresponsible but collectively insane.

The evolutionary process of "Life" has finally produced a species so idiot and self destructive that it will take everything down with it.

The Human species itself is basically a malignant tumour - a cancerous growth on this planet's vast and complex eco-system  

Equitist wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 8:42am:


Equitist,
I think you will find that the boiling point of salty water is higher, than the boiling point of fresh water and therefore if you replace salty water with fresh water, the boiling point will become lower or decrease.

Fresh water will therefore boil at lower temperatures than does salty water & steam will also be created at lower temperatures.

So, whilst taking away the salty water, may lessen the corrosion angle, replacing it with fresh water heightens the risk of spreading radioactivity via more steam.

That said, there does seem to be a balancing act going on, but I'm thinking of the balancing act of what information is being feed to the Public, with both the government & the company providing quite large amounts of BS, for the Public to feed on, in amongst some snippets of valid information!

muso wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 8:25am:

Equitist wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 12:01pm:


They could bring in a reverse osmosis unit if they don't have one already and clean up the water in that manner, concentrating the radioactive substances in the rejects and thereby reducing the total volume.  If there are cracks in the Unit 2 RPV then it's not going to be easy.

From CNN

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/28/japan.nuclear.status/
==========================
Also included are video reports -
1) IAEA Director General
2) US "expert" discussing "scenario's".

Obviously these two are coming from different directions, but of the two, I must say the IAEA guy lacked believability, the most.

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 9:27pm:



All good questions - and all of serious concern!

Imagine if another post-quake Tsunami had washed over that trench today...

TOKYO — Highly contaminated water is escaping a damaged reactor at a crippled nuclear power plant in Japan and could soon leak into the ocean, the country’s nuclear regulator warned on Monday.

Radiation measuring 1,000 millisieverts per hour was detected in water in an overflow tunnel outside the plant’s Reactor No. 2, Japan’s nuclear regulator said at a news conference. The tunnel leads from the reactor’s turbine building, where contaminated water was discovered on Saturday, to an opening just 180 feet from the sea, said Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director-general for the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.

The contaminated water level is now about three feet from the exit of the vertical, U-shaped tunnel and rising, Mr. Nishiyama said.

Contaminated water also was found at tunnels leading from the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors, though at much lower levels of radiation.

“We are unsure whether there is already an overflow” of the contaminated water out of the tunnel, Mr. Nishiyama said.

He said workers were redoubling efforts to first remove the water from the turbine building. Government officials have said that the water is likely leaking either from broken pipes inside the reactor, or from a breach in the reactor’s pressure vessel, which houses the nuclear fuel.

Link -
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/29/world/asia/29japan.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
================================
So, has someting new happened that has created these broken pipes or breach/s to the reactors pressure vessel/s or has this radioactive material just been sitting around, undetected?

Notwithstanding the obvious gravity of this situation, I couldn't help but laugh at this witty gem, courtesy of the twittersphere: -

Quote:

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 9:25am:


Remember this is a corporate nuclear waste mess whose bill will be covered by the tax payer

muso,

which of these three energy options do you feel will kill more people over the next 200 years?

solar thermal energy
Fukushima
fossil fuels

(I can ask loaded enatrapment questions too you know)

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 10:16am:


By the Japanese Tax payer? Maybe to some extent.  I don't know their system. Generally in Queensland, the company ends up with the bill (user pays system).

There is not much difference between a chemical spill and a radiological incident, and I have attended many chemical spills. I've been trained to respond to radiological emergencies too.  It has been a few years, so we'll probably get a refresher this year some time.

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:35pm:


Remember, the old one about, SIZE DOES MATTER!

If you are taking about something relatively small, then that would usually be picked up by individual businesses.

However, depending on the organization, even then they may well be able to pass the costs onto the public.

That said, once these events move into the size of a Katrina hurricane, Australian Floods, Christchurch earthquake, Japanese earthquake/tsunami/nuclear & the daddy of the all, the current GFC, then the Public are the ones who wear the final costs.

The final GFC bailout costs that the Public will pay for, will be counted into the many Trillons of $'s or Amero's or Renminbi or Amchindia$ or whatever the Global currency reverts to, after the US$ collapses.

I would be surprised if, TEPCO is not bailed out by the public purse, in one way, shape or form and therefore that Public pays!

It does need to be pointed out that the timing of the Japanese earthquake/tsunami/nuclear problems, was absolutely terrible in an Economic sense, as they are in the middle of their Baby Boomer Bust  and these recent events will likely push them into a severe Recession, come Depression, with flow on ramifications for Global Economics!

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:40pm:



One of the problems of using sea water no doubt. You introduce a cocktail of anions and cations that are being bombarded by high energy neutrons and other particles etc

You mentioned 300,000 mS per hour

How may times above normal radiation level is that? (LOL)

What you have in Fukushima is a nuclear waste dump.

This is the inherent problem with nuclear power plants - when something actuially DOES go wrong, the repurcussions are infinitely more severe than any other industrial accident (even if the initial death and injury toll isn't apparent in number terms).

I will paraphrase the Independent British Nuclear Engineering Consultant John Large

"....When constructing these plants, nuclear power plant designers, and that includes myself, gamble with the safety of the public and the environment. We balance economics with scenarios that can happen but are remote. The Titanic was designed to be unsinkable but still sank before it even reached port on its maiden voyage"  

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 4:05pm:


You mean safe limits or background? Background in Japan is about 0.3uSv/ Hr. 300,000 mSv/ hour is about a billion times that. Safe limits depend on total dose, and then it becomes complicated at high acute doses.

(300,000mSv is 300,000,000 uSv. Divide that by 0.3 and you get a billion)

Those figures were rough estimates. It depends on the distance. The inverse square law applies.

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 4:05pm:


It depends on context, and who pays the piper in this case. John Large has been commissioned to report on the accident for Greenpeace International. (that other multinational corpocracy)

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 4:16pm:


I'm sure there's more than one way to pluck a duck!

The duck being the public.

But, a way will be found!

Perhaps, the Japanese government may do a Freddie Mac and put TEPCO into " Conservatorship" or "guardianship" or something similar, which is just another way of saying the government (read - the Public) will guarantee liabilities, to enable the business & the government, time to sort out of its current mess.

Btw Muso, TEPCO is quite a large business, but it also now has large liabilities & it may quite possibly have to write off a large asset, shortly, that being the Fukusima plant and funding is going to become more difficult.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 5:29pm:


according to gizmo, EXXON-MOBIL corp is a relgious charity and Greenpeace is a profit motivated multinational corporation.

I could laugh harder than you gizmo but I wont