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Fukushima - Consequences? (Read 102505 times)
perceptions_now
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #585 - May 2nd, 2011 at 10:41pm
 
muso wrote on May 2nd, 2011 at 10:04pm:
perceptions_now wrote on May 2nd, 2011 at 4:37pm:
3) Japan raised the maximum exposure level for male nuclear emergency workers to 250 millisieverts, from 100 millisieverts.

Q.On what scientic basis has that move been made?
A. Necessity![/b]


Well the limit for radiation workers in Australia is as low as possible, but no more than 50mSV in a year. There are also limits for 5 years.

Well, the risk of raising the exposure limit to 250 mSv has been quantified. This ISCORS publication provides some cancer risk rates for exposure to different substances:
http://www.iscors.org/doc/RiskTEDE.pdf

The question is whether it's acceptable or not.

As a ballpark figure, the morbidity risk is about 0.02 per Sievert. At one Sievert exposure, one in every 50 people would contract cancer as a result of the exposure.  At  0.25 Sv, it would be about 1 in 200.

Please note that I'm not defending the decision - just providing some information that might be useful.


Not really!

My reason for making my statement, was simply that, the only thing that had changed, was the event itself.

No comment on points 1 & 2?
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« Last Edit: May 2nd, 2011 at 10:54pm by perceptions_now »  
 
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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #586 - May 3rd, 2011 at 7:07am
 
perceptions_now wrote on May 2nd, 2011 at 10:41pm:
Not really!

My reason for making my statement, was simply that, the only thing that had changed, was the event itself.

No comment on points 1 & 2?


Your points 1 and 2 seem reasonable. Of course I don't know if that proposal would protect the plant or not, or whether it's intended as an interim short term measure or the final design.  Presumably they would build walls high enough so that all coastal nuclear power plants are immune to a Tsunami of that magnitude. The EPA here in Australia would be insisting on that if it happened here.

The other point is that it's reasonable to raise emergency exposure limits as long as the people involved are aware of the risks involved.  As I understand it, they went in with full knowledge. That was not the case in Chernobyl.  The Japanese are at least trying to manage exposure.

The modern radiation 'badges' can register higher dosages, unlike those used at Chernobyl.
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #587 - May 4th, 2011 at 11:40am
 
Muso from reading your posts you seem to be if not in a field of science at least fairly abreast of developments.
What is your opinion of this little gem I stumbled across, sci fi or possible?
Last paragraph is why its posted here.

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/weapons/news.php?q=1303227058
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #588 - May 4th, 2011 at 11:48am
 
It's totally wacko.
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Equitist
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #589 - May 9th, 2011 at 1:19pm
 



Has there been a new fire at the Fukushima plant in the past 24 hours - as several blog sites are suggesting that there has been a cover-up of such a fire...!?
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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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perceptions_now
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #590 - May 9th, 2011 at 2:00pm
 
Equitist wrote on May 9th, 2011 at 1:19pm:
Has there been a new fire at the Fukushima plant in the past 24 hours - as several blog sites are suggesting that there has been a cover-up of such a fire...!?


No, it seems that TEPCO had organised a company BBQ out the back of reactors 3 & 4.

Some of the chops may have got a little charred?


Ha! Ha!

Not much reporting now, by mainstream media, so unless the place disappears (in the middle of a bright light), it probably won't get reported!
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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #591 - May 9th, 2011 at 4:02pm
 
What's the story there? I know that there is still white smoke coming from reactors 2 and 3.
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #592 - May 10th, 2011 at 2:25pm
 
Take a tour with these guys. Very very sad.



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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #593 - May 10th, 2011 at 2:52pm
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 10th, 2011 at 2:25pm:
Take a tour with these guys. Very very sad.





Not really as 'sad' as you think.....
You get a dose of 5 µSv/h (microsieverts per hour) flying in a plane at an altitude of 12 km (39,336 feet..an international flight) and the dose at 20 kms is 1.25 µSv/h ...

You'd get the same reading driving under a high tension power line...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #594 - May 10th, 2011 at 4:03pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on May 10th, 2011 at 2:52pm:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 10th, 2011 at 2:25pm:
Take a tour with these guys. Very very sad.





Not really as 'sad' as you think.....
You get a dose of 5 µSv/h (microsieverts per hour) flying in a plane at an altitude of 12 km (39,336 feet..an international flight) and the dose at 20 kms is 1.25 µSv/h ...

You'd get the same reading driving under a high tension power line...


The sad thing is the fact that they were abandoned without food.
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Equitist
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #595 - May 12th, 2011 at 9:45pm
 


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/05/12/3215377.htm

Quote:
Japan's stricken nuclear plant has new leak

By North Asia correspondent Mark Willacy and wires

Updated 4 hours 6 minutes ago

The operator of Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear plant says rods inside one of the reactors have most likely melted after being fully exposed.

The Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) has reported a leak from the reactor vessel and another spill of contaminated water into the ocean.

The company says the water level inside reactor No. 1 was much lower than it thought, exposing about 1.5 metres of the fuel rods.

It says the rods have likely melted and workers are still trying to cool them in water at the bottom of the pressure vessel.

The company believes that about half the reactor core in reactor No. 1 has been damaged and has been pumping in up to eight tonnes of water an hour into the pressure vessel to try to keep the rods cool.

The update comes as emergency crews battle to bring the tsunami-hit and radiation-leaking plant into stable "cold shutdown" sometime between October and January.

The giant ocean wave triggered by the magnitude-9.0 quake on March 11 knocked out the plant's water cooling systems, leading fuel rods inside several of the reactor cores to partially melt down.

TEPCO says new measurements taken this week, after workers in protective suits fixed gauges in the badly hit reactor No. 1 building, indicate that water pumped into the pressure vessel had quickly leaked out.

The water level inside had fallen below the bottom of the four-metre-long fuel rods, suggesting they had been exposed to the air, increasing the risk of a dangerous full meltdown.

However, the vessel's relatively low outside temperature of 100-120 degrees Celsius indicated that the rods had dropped to the bottom of the vessel and were under water there, TEPCO said.

The dousing operations - in which tens of thousands of tonnes of water have been injected with fire trucks, concrete boom pumps and other pumping systems - have created massive amounts of highly contaminated run-off water.

TEPCO has struggled to stop spills into the Pacific Ocean and has now reported another, saying water had leaked into the sea from a concrete pit near reactor No. 3, one of the plant's six units.

Samples of seawater taken near the plant contained caesium-134 at a concentration 18,000 times the permitted level, the company said, adding that the spill had been stopped by filling the pit with concrete.

"We have continued to investigate the route of the leakage into sea and why it happened," TEPCO spokesman Yoshinori Mori said.

Top government spokesman Yukio Edano called the leak "deplorable" and apologised to the fishing industry and to neighbouring countries.

- ABC/AFP



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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #596 - May 12th, 2011 at 10:13pm
 
If that's the case, the IAEA site is not indicating that at all:

On 27 April TEPCO provided an update of the estimated percentage of core damage for Units 1, 2 and 3: for Unit 1 the core damage was revised from an estimated 70% to 55%; for Unit 2 the core damage was revised from an estimated 30% to 35%; and for Unit 3 the core damage was revised from an estimated 25% to 30%. This reflects a revised assessment since 15 March rather than any recent changes in conditions in the reactor cores.

Quote:
On 29 April TEPCO checked the status inside the reactor building of Unit 1 using a remotely controlled robot and confirmed that there was no significant leakage of water from the primary containment vessel. Nitrogen gas is still being injected into the containment vessel in Unit 1 to reduce the possibility of hydrogen combustion inside the containment vessel.
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perceptions_now
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #597 - May 14th, 2011 at 7:27pm
 
Fukushima - One Step Forward and Four Steps Back as Each Unit Challenged by New Problems


Embedded video -
May 13th
Gundersen says Fukushima's gaseous and liquid releases continue unabated.  With a meltdown at Unit 1, Unit 4 leaning and facing possible collapse, several units contaminating ground water, and area school children outside the exclusion zone receiving adult occupational radiation doses, the situation continues to worsen. TEPCO needs a cohesive plan and international support to protect against world-wide contamination.

Units 1, 2 & 3 leaking water into the ground water & the ocean.

http://www.fairewinds.com/updates
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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #598 - May 14th, 2011 at 10:46pm
 
There are a few things that ring alarm bells for me in that report. One of those is "world wide contamination". While Iodine and Cesium have been detected at extremely low levels worldwide, it's hardly at a level to cause concern. (like several magnitudes less than background.) There is no noticeable effect on background radiation levels outside the immediate area.

The video that shows how the fuel rods disintegrate is good.

Arnold Gundersen's credentials seem sound, but he's obviously taking a firm anti-stance probably because most of his work is involved in prosecutions against the nuclear power industry.
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #599 - May 16th, 2011 at 11:42am
 


As time goes on, the world is beginning to face the fact that: from the outset, there was no basis for clinging to the best-case scenario...

Unfortunately, the worst-case scenario was unfolding from the very beginning...

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2011/s3217555.htm

Quote:
Japan extends the exclusion zone around Fukushima

Mark Willacy reported this story on Monday, May 16, 2011 08:11:00

PETER CAVE: Japan has begun evacuating people from outside the official exclusion zone around the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant.

With radiation levels remaining high, small children and pregnant women were the first to be moved with thousands more to be shifted into shelters and temporary housing.

As the evacuation zone widened more details have emerged about the meltdown in Fukushima's reactor number one, with revelations the fuel rods probably melted in the hours after the magnitude nine earthquake in March - a fact not discovered until last week.

North Asia correspondent Mark Willacy reports from Tokyo.

(Sound of a man speaking Japanese)

MARK WILLACY: It was the news the people of Iitate village had been dreading. A touch over 30 kilometres from the Fukushima nuclear plant Iitate is outside the evacuation zone, or it was until now.

[...]

About 8,000 residents of Iitate and the nearby village of Kawamata are being asked to move, joining the tens of thousands who've already been forced out of their homes by the nuclear crisis at the Fukushima plant.

These people will be put up in hotels, public housing and evacuation shelters. No-one knows when they'll be allowed to return.

[...]

Because of wind patterns Iitate and nearby communities have been swathed in high radiation and authorities aren't willing to let people stay any longer.

As these new evacuations began, more news filtered out about the meltdown of fuel rods at Fukushima's reactor number one.

It appears that the rods melted just hours after the earthquake and tsunami struck two months ago. The melted material then dropped to the bottom of the pressure vessel at the core.

Authorities now believe the fuel rods could have been exposed to the air for as long as 14 hours.

After the operator of the plant, TEPCO, told the Japanese people that things were stabilising at Fukushima, it's now clear they knew far less about the situation than they were willing to admit.

This is Mark Willacy in Tokyo for AM.



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