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Fukushima - Consequences? (Read 102606 times)
muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #420 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 3:42pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Apr 12th, 2011 at 3:02pm:
How sad to see that our generation has s.hat and abused our environment to such a disgusting degree.

What sort of legacy are we going to leave our children?

Makes me feel ashamed.


I have a feeling that the next two generations will have some much more pressing issues than radiation. It's all a question of risk. Climate Change is by far the dominant  issue.

As far as public perception is concerned, we are strange creatures. Many of us voluntarily accept the risk of smoking, which carries a cancer risk around 500 times greater than the risk of all other environmental toxins put together.
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Foolosophy
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #421 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 3:50pm
 
...Fukushima reactor fuel and spent fuel rods glowed HOT for up to 12 hours after cooling was lost.

There is no doubt that the zircaloy casing fothe fuel rods has been oxidised - hence the production of hydrogen.

Question is HOW much of the fuel inventory has been comprimised in this way?

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Foolosophy
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #422 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 3:55pm
 
muso wrote on Apr 12th, 2011 at 3:42pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Apr 12th, 2011 at 3:02pm:
How sad to see that our generation has s.hat and abused our environment to such a disgusting degree.

What sort of legacy are we going to leave our children?

Makes me feel ashamed.


I have a feeling that the next two generations will have some much more pressing issues than radiation. It's all a question of risk. Climate Change is by far the dominant  issue.

As far as public perception is concerned, we are strange creatures. Many of us voluntarily accept the risk of smoking, which carries a cancer risk around 500 times greater than the risk of all other environmental toxins put together.


But according to the supreme international authorities, Human induced Global warming doesn't exist. And I am including in this group of authorities the world's premier modern day thinker and genius Andrew Bolt as well as the world's protectors of the envrionment EXXON and the Peabody Coal company.

You just haven't been reading the right propaganda on this issue. Don't pay much attention to scientific experts and the CSIRO. Bolt is the man. Lord Mokton is the man too (I think)
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perceptions_now
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #423 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 3:56pm
 
Japan Sees Greater Hit to Economy as Its Nuclear Crisis Deepens


April 12 (Bloomberg) -- Japan’s Economic and Fiscal Policy Minister Kaoru Yosano said the March 11 earthquake may result in a larger hit to the economy than previously estimated, indicating the government’s greater appetite for stimulus one month after the disaster.

“The damage to the economy may be bigger than we initially expected,”
Yosano told reporters today in Tokyo. “In addition to disruptions in the supply chain, we have the added seriousness of the situation with the nuclear power plant,” referring to the accident at Tokyo Electric Power Co.’s crippled facility in Fukushima that the government today said has a severity rating matching the 1986 Chernobyl disaster.

“There’s talk of a tax hike, but that risks exacerbating the drop in consumer confidence,” said Matsuoka, an economist at Daiwa Asset Management Co. in Tokyo. “The BOJ will probably want to avoid increasing its monthly bond purchases because they think that would be similar to monetizing debt.”

The central bank is barred by law from directly buying public debt from the government, and instead purchases 1.8 trillion yen ($21 billion) of the securities from lenders each month, an amount that’s been unchanged for two years.


Confidence Slips
Confidence among merchants closest to Japan’s consumers tumbled at the fastest pace in March since the Cabinet Office began tracking the data in 2000, a survey showed last week.

Analysts from Capital Economics Ltd. are now forecasting the economy will shrink 1.5 percent this year, revised from a previous estimate for gross domestic product to be unchanged.

“GDP should then rebound as activity recovers from the initial shock and reconstruction spending kicks in, but the recovery will be held back by increases in taxes and cuts in other expenditure required to help pay for the government’s contribution,” economists led by Julian Jessop, chief international economist at Capital Economics, said in a note last week

Damage Estimate
The government last month estimated damages from the earthquake and tsunami will be as much as 25 trillion yen, prompting several lawmakers to call for a stimulus package as large as 20 trillion yen. Those projections covered destruction to infrastructure while excluding wider implications to the economy, including how radiation will affect food and water supply.

Link -
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSpyJhCYJ9AU&pos=2
=========================
A few observations -
1) The intial estimate I saw from the Japanese was around US$300 Billion and my initial thoughts were around US$1 Trillion plus. At this stage I would still go with the US$1 Trillion plus.

2) The Japanese were already looking at a National Debt of some 200% of their US$5 Trillion GDP, before this event, they simply can not continue to pile on Debt, like there is no tomorrow, unless there isn't.
The Japanese are/were the second largest supporter of US Treasury Bonds, so something is going to give way.
Choices are coming, do the japanese -
a) Increase the Tax take or increase Debt?
b) Take care of their own Debt OR do they pander to the US?

3) They say, “the BOJ will probably want to avoid increasing its monthly bond purchases because they think that would be similar to monetizing debt.”
That is exactly what the US Federal Reserve is doing and THEY ARE BOTH MONETISING DEBT!
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Foolosophy
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #424 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:10pm
 
fuel and spent-fuel rods at FUKUSHIMA DAICHI were not under any cooling for between 7 and 12 hours after the power losses due to the tsunami hit

Its all over
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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #425 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:20pm
 
Quote:
The re-evaluation of the Fukushima INES rating resulted from an estimate of the amount of radioactivity released to the environment from the nuclear plant. NISA estimates that the amount of radioactive material released to the atmosphere is approximately 10 percent of the 1986 Chernobyl accident, which is the only other nuclear accident to have been rated a Level 7 event.


That's more that I thought. I would say that most of that release has been into the sea.
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #426 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:21pm
 


IM(not-so)HO, the accident should have been rated according to the amount of concentrated nuclear material to escape from the vessels in the first instance - regardless of how far, wide and uncontrollably the material spread thereafter...

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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #427 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:25pm
 


muso wrote on Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:20pm:
Quote:
The re-evaluation of the Fukushima INES rating resulted from an estimate of the amount of radioactivity released to the environment from the nuclear plant. NISA estimates that the amount of radioactive material released to the atmosphere is approximately 10 percent of the 1986 Chernobyl accident, which is the only other nuclear accident to have been rated a Level 7 event.




That's more that I thought. I would say that most of that release has been into the sea.




From what I've read, there are estimations that much more than that arbitrary '10% of Chernobyl' figure was released in the first week alone...

Meantime, I think we're yet to be informed about how they defined "low level" radiation in the thousands of tons of water that they deliberately pumped into the sea...


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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #428 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:26pm
 
Foolosophy wrote on Apr 12th, 2011 at 3:55pm:
You just haven't been reading the right propaganda on this issue. Don't pay much attention to scientific experts and the CSIRO. Bolt is the man. Lord Mokton is the man too (I think)


...

I prefer to talk about the rot they emit rather than the individuals, but Monckton is a soft target. ....very soft.

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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #429 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:34pm
 
Equitist wrote on Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:25pm:
muso wrote on Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:20pm:
Quote:
The re-evaluation of the Fukushima INES rating resulted from an estimate of the amount of radioactivity released to the environment from the nuclear plant. NISA estimates that the amount of radioactive material released to the atmosphere is approximately 10 percent of the 1986 Chernobyl accident, which is the only other nuclear accident to have been rated a Level 7 event.




That's more that I thought. I would say that most of that release has been into the sea.




From what I've read, there are estimations that much more than that arbitrary '10% of Chernobyl' figure was released in the first week alone...

Meantime, I think we're yet to be informed about how they defined "low level" radiation in the thousands of tons of water that they deliberately pumped into the sea...




I have modelling software, but I'd say that the amount of contamination on land is tiny in comparison to Chernobyl. They were quoting 555 kBq m-2 in what is now the Exclusion Zone of Chernobyl.

I haven't seen any results anything like that from land samples, so if the total is 10% of Chernobyl, that represents a heck of a lot of activity disposed to the sea.
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Foolosophy
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #430 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:42pm
 
Equitist wrote on Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:21pm:
IM(not-so)HO, the accident should have been rated according to the amount of concentrated nuclear material to escape from the vessels in the first instance - regardless of how far, wide and uncontrollably the material spread thereafter...



I think that we can ignore the ratings handed out by the Japanese authorties and TEPCO.

Like I said initially, the fukushima disaster was a level 7 after the explosions and will dwarf the Chernobyl incident (which was catastrophic from the word go).

They will dump more radioactive water. There will be more release to the soil and air. And I would monitor the ground water table for radionuclides.

This isnt over and further explosions cant be ruled out.

And we are still getting big earth quakes

Look at the latest wreckage footage of one of the reactor buildings - there are damaged spent fuel casings in the rubble on top of the roof. This means that at least the spent fuel pool has run dry and exploded.

And this means Plutonium and other long lasting nasties

This is one big mess

(readings of 900 kBqm-2 have been measured at Fukushima - which is greater than those measured at Chernobyl)
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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #431 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 7:06pm
 
Well I'll stick my neck out and say that I very much doubt if the full consequences of this incident will be anything like the magnitude of Chernobyl.

The 10% figure related to I-131. The comparison is between I-131 and Cs-137. For some reason, they don't mention the fact that a considerable proportion of the activity at Chernobyl was from transuranics ie  Uranium, Plutonium, Americum etc.

Comparing Cs and I totals between Fukushima and Chernobyl, the ratio is more like 5%. I'd like to see pictures of the spent fuel rod pools.

The one positive factor in ground water comparing between Fukushima and Chernobyl is that the net hydrological flow at Fukushima is towards the sea. Groundwater contamination is not a good prospect whichever way you look at it, but at least the hydrology is favourable for the local inhabitants.

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« Last Edit: Apr 12th, 2011 at 7:27pm by muso »  

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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #432 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 8:34pm
 
Everything is linked in nature - no escaping this reality
...
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Foolosophy
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #433 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 8:49pm
 
"....clearly we are witnessing one of the greatest disasters of modern time"

AREVA executive VP
March 21, 2011


I would urge everyone to obtain a copy or summary fo this important report in relation to the Fukushima disaster
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Foolosophy
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #434 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 9:16pm
 
...the nuclear industry apologists and right wing nuclear corporate shielders and nuclear disaster trivialisers are frothing at the mouth at the moment.

a nuerotic level 7 plume of deceiving denialism wafts into this thread topic exposing the pathetic corporate puppets and deceiving foot soldiers

can you see them?
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« Last Edit: Apr 12th, 2011 at 9:21pm by Foolosophy »  
 
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