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Fukushima - Consequences? (Read 102580 times)
Equitist
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #375 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 2:54pm
 


perceptions_now wrote on Apr 9th, 2011 at 11:19am:
"There is simply no other power source that can go from being a multibillion dollar asset to a multibillion liability in a matter of hours."

Link -
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/08/us-nuclear-japan-month-idUSTRE7377I120...




That one sentence pretty much sums up the whole economics of nuclear power!

Then there's the risks to humans and other animals and the life-giving environment upon which all animals must necessarily rely!

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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #376 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 3:43pm
 
When I look at Nippon and their history with 'Nuclear',
its quite an obvious fact that some people need to learn
to go without.
And thats the trouble with many nations - the fear of going without.

Maybe it was karma after Nippon led the world in dumping rubbish and nuclear waste into the oceans.

It was terrible to see such happen to 'people', but not so to 'those' people.
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SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO.
 
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #377 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 4:00pm
 
Lack of Data Heightens Japan’s Nuclear Crisis


TOKYO — Nearly one month after Japan’s devastating nuclear accident, atomic energy experts, regulators and politicians around the world are still puzzling over a basic question: How much danger is still posed by the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant?

That depends to a considerable extent on how hot the uranium fuel rods at the power plant remain, and whether fuel has escaped its containment, or might still do so. Yet remarkably little is known for sure about what is really happening inside the reactors because some areas remain far too radioactive for workers to approach, and some instruments have malfunctioned.

The paucity of data
and the conflicting estimates of what the available information really means have prompted a series of confusing analyses and a rift between officials in Japan and those overseas — and even between one member of Congress and the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

The commission speculated this week that the nuclear fuel in the core of one of the stricken reactors had probably leaked from its thick steel pressure vessel, its most important protective barrier. If that proved to be accurate, it would raise the prospect of continuing fuel leaks and high levels of radioactive releases that would vastly complicate containment and the cleanup.

But Japanese officials said there was no evidence of a compromised pressure vessel, and they wondered why they were reading about it in the newspapers.

“If they have a concern, they should inform us,” said Kentaro Morita of Japan’s nuclear regulatory body, the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, after its American counterpart sounded the alarm over a possible nuclear fuel leak at the plant’s Reactor No. 2, clearly contradicting Japanese accounts. “They didn’t say such concerns to us directly,” Mr. Morita said.

From the start there have been differences, with the American authorities expressing a more pessimistic view than the Japanese.

The rift also highlights the difficulty of a debate in which both sides are forced to extrapolate possible situations with little access to crucial readings from inside the reactors.

Much of the automated measurement equipment in the reactors has been damaged, either by explosions in the early days of the crisis or by intense radiation since then. Damage to the reactors, as well as high radiation, has prevented technicians from making detailed assessments.

Even so, it is not easy to explain why such different theories are being offered on fundamental questions like whether radioactive fuel from the steel reactor pressure vessel at Unit No. 2 is leaking into the bottom of the containment structure.

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission cited high levels of radiation at one spot inside the containment structure at Reactor No. 2 as evidence for its analysis. In addition, extremely high levels of radiation were detected in the water from a recently stanched leak that ran from the reactor building into a drainage ditch and into the ocean.

The Japanese flatly deny that possibility. “At this moment we do not have any data that shows there has been leakage to the containment vessels,” said Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director general at the Japanese regulatory agency.

In addition, there is evidence that an explosion may have breached the primary containment structure, which may have allowed highly radioactive water into other parts of the plant and into the ocean.

This week, Representative Edward J. Markey, Democrat of Massachusetts, an outspoken critic, engaged in a running debate with members of the commission’s staff over the conditions at Reactor No. 2 in Japan. Mr. Markey said the regulators had told his staff that fuel was leaking from the reactor, but then the commission issued a more ambiguous public statement.

“I find it rather curious that some within the Nuclear Regulatory Commission are attempting to deny the findings their own technical staff conveyed to my office as soon as it became clear that this information showed a meltdown that is more severe than some people apparently wish to acknowledge,” Mr. Markey said in a statement.

On the Japanese side, officials have an obvious desire to avoid causing panic in public statements.

The Japanese also seem to prefer presenting raw data without explaining what they think it means, said Takashi Inoue, a professor of public relations at Waseda University. Every day, Tokyo Electric, the nuclear agency, the chief cabinet secretary and others hold news conferences at which they present a blizzard of facts and numbers but rarely make broader declarations about the conditions at Fukushima Daiichi.

Masashi Goto, a former Toshiba nuclear power plant designer, said that Japanese officials appeared to have decided that they gained nothing but panic from predicting outcomes. “They will never speak about the worst-case scenario,” he said. “They will never predict.”

Link -
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/09/world/asia/09nuclear.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
=================================
That's a reasonably fair way to put it!

A Paucity of information.

Paucity, meaning -
the presence of something only in small or insufficient quantities or amounts; scarcity
scantiness: a country with a paucity of resources

This is another situation where real facts are as scarce as hens teeth!
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Foolosophy
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #378 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 4:30pm
 
muso wrote on Apr 9th, 2011 at 2:11pm:
Foolosophy wrote on Apr 9th, 2011 at 1:56pm:
muso wrote on Apr 9th, 2011 at 1:51pm:
Foolosophy, I daresay I understand the situation better than you do with your ravings about Plutonium.


I doubt that very much - I dont know anyone who dismisses the toxicity of Plutonium like you do. 1 micro gram can give you cancer.


20 minutes in the sun can give you cancer.

A walk in the city can kill you.

A domestic pet can savage you to death.

(See, I can use phrases like that too)


muso, I notice you dont enjoy distinguishing between the health risks associated with internal and external emitters.

Now if you do understand the defference then you are deliberately concealing the significance of INTERNAL emitters which confirms a personal bias on your behalf and renders you an apologist for the nuclear power and nuclear weapons industry or for the corporate slave system in general.

On the other you may well lack the basic understanding and knowledge with regards to the health effects of radiation and in particular the various TYPES of radiation (long term and short term) in which case your opinions become meaningless when set against the vast backdrop of literature relating to medical research and nuclear physics.

Now if you're not happy with the 2009 NY Academy of Sciences report which estimates a CHernobyl death toll of 985,000 and the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences estimate of 212,000 one must ask WHY you dismiss these figures - on what scientific basis?

I am a fair person - lets take the average between the two estimates seeing as the Russians are more likely to underestimate the death toll whilst the AMericans are more likey to overestimate the death toll due to the location of the Chernobyl disaster

Are you happy with 598,500?

Lets round it off at 600,000 Chernobyl deaths

Why is this death toll kept out of the public gaze - especially in nations that have a nuclear energy/weapons programs (or in nations aspiring to attain these instruments of disease and death)

More importanlty why would you assist with this cover up?

What do you gain from this mass deception?

Who are you really?

Reveal yourself - take off your mask of fear and face the light

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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #379 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 5:57pm
 
Don't be so melodramatic. If I see something that is deliberately misleading I will correct it. If anything is biased it's your 1ug of Pu will give you cancer. It's a misleading and meaningless statement.

It's like saying that a car can kill you or that 20 minutes in the sun can give you cancer. It's all a question of risk.
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Equitist
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #380 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 6:30pm
 


Apparently, it will take experts at least 10 years to decommission the 4 troubled Fukushima reactors and clean up the contaminated site...

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110408x3.html

Quote:
Friday, April 8, 2011

Toshiba hopes to decommission reactors in 10 years

Kyodo News

Toshiba Corp. has proposed decommissioning four troubled nuclear reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 power plant in about 10 years, much shorter than the 14 years needed to dismantle the Three Mile Island nuclear plant in Pennsylvania, industry sources said Friday.

Toshiba filed the proposal with Tokyo Electric Power Co. and the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, after compiling it with U.S. nuclear energy firms, including its Westinghouse Electric Co. subsidiary, according to the sources.

Toshiba believes it can rely on the U.S. firms' experience of the 1979 Three Mile Island accident to decommission Tepco's Fukushima reactors.

According to the proposal, it will take about 10 years to remove the fuel rods in the containers and the spent nuclear fuel rods in the storage pools from the four reactors, as well as demolish various on-site facilities and improve the soil condition.

Japan's other reactor maker, Hitachi Ltd., which is in a tieup with General Electric Co. of the United States, is expected to file its own proposal, the sources said.

Tepco and METI are expected to look into the proposals by Toshiba and Hitachi before moving to dismantle the reactors. The four reactors were crippled in the March 11 earthquake and tsunami that devastated the northeast coast.

Chubu Electric Power Co. is currently working on decommissioning two reactors at the Hamaoka nuclear plant in Omaezaki, Shizuoka Prefecture, with work scheduled to end by March 2037.





That's one heck of a mess!

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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #381 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 6:35pm
 
when can the cows eat the grass in the fukushima niclear waste dump without lactating glowing milk form their udders?

Incidentally, the molten slag mass that is resting at the bottom of the Chernobyl sarcophagus will be emitting lethal levels of radiation for at least 100,000 years.

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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #382 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 7:20pm
 
Foolosophy wrote on Apr 9th, 2011 at 6:35pm:
when can the cows eat the grass in the fukushima niclear waste dump without lactating glowing milk form their udders?

Incidentally, the molten slag mass that is resting at the bottom of the Chernobyl sarcophagus will be emitting lethal levels of radiation for at least 100,000 years.



According to WHO???....the last  I heard was 70 years before removal was possible...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #383 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 7:58pm
 
Equitist wrote on Apr 9th, 2011 at 6:30pm:
Apparently, it will take experts at least 10 years to decommission the 4 troubled Fukushima reactors and clean up the contaminated site...




Yes, but the residential area will be much easier to clean up.  The biggest clean-up will be the damage done by the tsunami.
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #384 - Apr 10th, 2011 at 9:28am
 
muso wrote on Apr 9th, 2011 at 5:57pm:
Don't be so melodramatic. If I see something that is deliberately misleading I will correct it. If anything is biased it's your 1ug of Pu will give you cancer. It's a misleading and meaningless statement.

It's like saying that a car can kill you or that 20 minutes in the sun can give you cancer. It's all a question of risk.


Are you disputing this basic  medical and toxicological fact concerning the carnogenic nature of Plutonium?

interestinng - you post trivialisations and missleading comments in here and NOW you claim that you are some sort of INTEGRITY FILTER?

Give us a break

You dont even have the courage to post under ONE name (very risky seeing that this site is under servailence)

LOL

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« Last Edit: Apr 10th, 2011 at 10:23am by Foolosophy »  
 
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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #385 - Apr 10th, 2011 at 10:42am
 
Foolosophy wrote on Apr 10th, 2011 at 9:28am:
muso wrote on Apr 9th, 2011 at 5:57pm:
Don't be so melodramatic. If I see something that is deliberately misleading I will correct it. If anything is biased it's your 1ug of Pu will give you cancer. It's a misleading and meaningless statement.

It's like saying that a car can kill you or that 20 minutes in the sun can give you cancer. It's all a question of risk.


Are you disputing this basic  medical and toxicological fact concerning the carnogenic nature of Plutonium?

interestinng - you post trivialisations and missleading comments in here and NOW you claim that you are some sort of INTEGRITY FILTER?

Give us a break

You dont even have the courage to post under ONE name



I'm not sure who else you think I post as, but my dispute was with your use of unqualified statements.

I understand perfectly well that Plutonium is a Group 1 carcinogen, but your statement is meaningless. Alfatoxin B1 is also a Group 1 carcinogen. 1ug (microgram) can give you cancer. Do you eat peanut butter?

Benzene is a Group 1 carcinogen.
When you fill up your car, do you take precautions to avoid skin contact? (ULP contains about 5% benzene) That means that each litre contains about 40,000ug of Benzene, and each ug of benzene can give you cancer.

Look I'll make it easy for you. Here's the US EPA reference publication on Radionuclides. Now using that Table, what can you tell me about the relative risk of Cesium 137 and Plutonium (make it the worst case). Go on, surprise me. Here's your chance to redeem yourself.

I expect an answer that reflects an understanding of risk rather than copying Greenpeace's inane proclamations.

That reference you'll need:

http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/heast/docs/heast2_table_4-d2_0401.pdf



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« Last Edit: Apr 10th, 2011 at 10:51am by muso »  

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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #386 - Apr 10th, 2011 at 3:11pm
 
muso wrote on Apr 10th, 2011 at 10:42am:
Foolosophy wrote on Apr 10th, 2011 at 9:28am:
muso wrote on Apr 9th, 2011 at 5:57pm:
Don't be so melodramatic. If I see something that is deliberately misleading I will correct it. If anything is biased it's your 1ug of Pu will give you cancer. It's a misleading and meaningless statement.

It's like saying that a car can kill you or that 20 minutes in the sun can give you cancer. It's all a question of risk.


Are you disputing this basic  medical and toxicological fact concerning the carnogenic nature of Plutonium?

interestinng - you post trivialisations and missleading comments in here and NOW you claim that you are some sort of INTEGRITY FILTER?

Give us a break

You dont even have the courage to post under ONE name



I'm not sure who else you think I post as, but my dispute was with your use of unqualified statements.

I understand perfectly well that Plutonium is a Group 1 carcinogen, but your statement is meaningless. Alfatoxin B1 is also a Group 1 carcinogen. 1ug (microgram) can give you cancer. Do you eat peanut butter?

Benzene is a Group 1 carcinogen.
When you fill up your car, do you take precautions to avoid skin contact? (ULP contains about 5% benzene) That means that each litre contains about 40,000ug of Benzene, and each ug of benzene can give you cancer.

Look I'll make it easy for you. Here's the US EPA reference publication on Radionuclides. Now using that Table, what can you tell me about the relative risk of Cesium 137 and Plutonium (make it the worst case). Go on, surprise me. Here's your chance to redeem yourself.

I expect an answer that reflects an understanding of risk rather than copying Greenpeace's inane proclamations.

That reference you'll need:

http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/heast/docs/heast2_table_4-d2_0401.pdf





you are the one that is prancing in here only referring to TEPCO propaganda Iodine131 levels and ignoring everything else spewed out in the Fukushima disaster.

you are the one who gallops in here avoiding the the issue of INTERNAL alpha emitters and prefering to only talk about some broad radiation exposure safety limit as DICTATED by the Nuclear Industry and its lobby instruments such as the IAEA.

You are very irresponsible with your selectivity and spin.

You may dismiss Greenpeace on the basis of your own personal hatred but they seem to be the only group around the fukushima prefecture that is conduting open and honest testing of soil. water and air.

But of course muso prefers the lies pumped out by TEPCO and its puppet japanese government co-criminals - LOL

Are you sure that you're not a Lawyer?
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« Last Edit: Apr 11th, 2011 at 12:10am by muso »  
 
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #387 - Apr 11th, 2011 at 12:11am
 
I'll take that as meaning that you don't know. No surprise there.
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #388 - Apr 11th, 2011 at 7:22pm
 
Magnitude 7.1-quake jolts Japan coast

By the CNN Wire Staff
April 11, 2011 -- Updated 0858 GMT

(CNN) -- A magnitude 7.1 earthquake rattled the northeastern coast of Japan Monday evening, the U.S. Geological Survey reported.

Japan's Meteorological Agency issued a tsunami warning, predicting a potential wave of two-meters in Miyagi, Fukushima and Chiba and Ibaraki prefectures.


The quake was centered about 164 kilometers (101 miles) northeast of Tokyo, according to the USGS. Residents in Tokyo felt the jolts.

Workers at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant were asked to evacuate.

Link -
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/11/japan.quake/?hpt=T1
========================
Have all the bolts been tightened & the brittle metal been replaced?

Because, if these keep up, sooner or later, it's going to be one too many!
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #389 - Apr 11th, 2011 at 7:52pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 11th, 2011 at 7:22pm:
Magnitude 7.1-quake jolts Japan coast

By the CNN Wire Staff
April 11, 2011 -- Updated 0858 GMT

(CNN) -- A magnitude 7.1 earthquake rattled the northeastern coast of Japan Monday evening, the U.S. Geological Survey reported.

Japan's Meteorological Agency issued a tsunami warning, predicting a potential wave of two-meters in Miyagi, Fukushima and Chiba and Ibaraki prefectures.


The quake was centered about 164 kilometers (101 miles) northeast of Tokyo, according to the USGS. Residents in Tokyo felt the jolts.

Workers at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant were asked to evacuate.

Link -
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/11/japan.quake/?hpt=T1
========================
Have all the bolts been tightened & the brittle metal been replaced?

Because, if these keep up, sooner or later, it's going to be one too many!


According to the falsified TEPCO safety records all the welds and corrosion limits at the Fukushima Daichi nuclear power facility were as acceptable levels

I dont know why the TEPCO CEO's were asked to resign and 26 TEPCO reactors temporarily shut down over the falsified safety report to the IAEA. Seems a little unfair to me.

I am sure the reactors are safe and TEPCO are an honest public safety conscious MULTI-NATIONAL CORPORATION

LOOK SOREN

LOOK AT THE CLEAN, SAFE AND CHEAP RENEWABLE FUTURE FOR OUR CHILDREN

SOREN LOOK AT THESE AMPHITHEATRES OF BASE LOAD SUSTAINABILITY


...



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